Cutting Cycle Insight

Wheres MA at? he will defiantly be able to help here.

Pyroclasm wrote:

GSP wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote: It's not absolutely necessary to run the Nolva. The Nolva is more there to keep the extra estrogen from the Clomid under control. This is where lots of people get hectic estrogen related sides especially gyno. You are welcome to leave it out but I just feel for the price difference why not run the Nolva and be sure you have a good PCT. For me personally the PCT is the most important part of the cycle.

Oh...also to just correct this. Both clomid and nolvadex are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMS) which mean that they bind on to estrogen receptors and prevent estrogen which is formed through testerosteron aromotization from binding onto these receptors throughout the body and thus possibly resulting in gyno. Both compunds stimpulate the output of leutenizing hormone in the pituitary which in turn results in the testes producing testesterone.


So in summation, neither clomid or nolvadex produces estrogen. Both are SERMS which block estrogen from binding onto receptors and also stimulate the testes to start producing test again after they shutdown in the presecne of AAS

You know every time I think I have a handle on this topic someone else confuses me again.. In our own articles section we write: "I personally do not see the benefit of Clomid over Nolvadex in our PCT as all studies clearly point out that Nolvadex does a better job and is a more “pure” SERM, it is also reported that the pituitary requires higher amounts of hypothalamic Gonadotropin-releasing hormone when Clomid is used in order to achieve the same level of LH stimulation when compared to that of Tamoxifen." So why do we use both in a PCT? And why can't we just run Nolvadex? Someone please explain this to me.. :dazed:

I stand to be corrected, but I believe the combination of the two leads to a greater release of LH making the testes more responsive in producing testesterone naturally again. Could be mistaken to the exact scienece though.

Bump! :S

It would be nice if one of the mods could chip in aswell?

Pyroclasm wrote:

GSP wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote: It's not absolutely necessary to run the Nolva. The Nolva is more there to keep the extra estrogen from the Clomid under control. This is where lots of people get hectic estrogen related sides especially gyno. You are welcome to leave it out but I just feel for the price difference why not run the Nolva and be sure you have a good PCT. For me personally the PCT is the most important part of the cycle.

Oh...also to just correct this. Both clomid and nolvadex are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMS) which mean that they bind on to estrogen receptors and prevent estrogen which is formed through testerosteron aromotization from binding onto these receptors throughout the body and thus possibly resulting in gyno. Both compunds stimpulate the output of leutenizing hormone in the pituitary which in turn results in the testes producing testesterone.


So in summation, neither clomid or nolvadex produces estrogen. Both are SERMS which block estrogen from binding onto receptors and also stimulate the testes to start producing test again after they shutdown in the presecne of AAS

You know every time I think I have a handle on this topic someone else confuses me again.. In our own articles section we write: "I personally do not see the benefit of Clomid over Nolvadex in our PCT as all studies clearly point out that Nolvadex does a better job and is a more “pure” SERM, it is also reported that the pituitary requires higher amounts of hypothalamic Gonadotropin-releasing hormone when Clomid is used in order to achieve the same level of LH stimulation when compared to that of Tamoxifen." So why do we use both in a PCT? And why can't we just run Nolvadex? Someone please explain this to me.. :dazed:

Check this previous thread here . Should explain everything about nolva vs clomid. After using just var nolvadex on its own is enough.

Thanks for the input gents.

I've decided to change things up a bit. I'll do Keto (CKD) for September and run Albuterol and
antihistamines.

Starting October I'll reintroduce carbs slowly run Var, Clen and T3.
Var: 60mg ED, Clen: Taper up to 120ug, T3: Taper up and down to a max of 75ug (I might not even go
that high, depends on results)
PCT as per the suggestion on the site: Clomid 50mg 2XED for 7 days and Nolvadex 20mg ED for 30 days.
Will also be taking a host of goodies to support my body: thyroid supp, fibre, liver supp, Zinc,
Iron, Vit C, Omega 3s.

I'll have to vary the workouts, obviously on Keto I'll do depletion style workouts during the week
and a power/hypertrophy on the weekend (as described in UD2.0).

Cheers again for the advice. I'll bump up this thread weekly to log progress.

Hey guys, small update.
So I started the cut on Sep 1, did keto until 3 Oct, with first carb up after 3 weeks and 1 more a week after that.
Did Albuterol during keto, except the last week.

Since then I've been bringing in carbs again slowly, looks like a kept all my muscle, just the water loss makes me look a lot smaller haha. Started on clen, T3 and var. Slowly regaining strength as well after the water weight was lost, which is nice. Will try carb-cycling starting tomorrow.

08/28/2012 - 77kg, no idea what BF was.
10/07/2012 - 73.4kg, 32.1 kg Muscle mass, 23.3 BF%
11/07/2012 - 69.9kg, 36.6kg Muscle Mass, 9.7 BF%

These measurements are done using the whole-body assessment tool in VA (the standing one, not the one where you sit down). I don't really trust either cause I reckon water retention throws them off. But I reckon the whole-body machine is more accurate.

Quick update: Weight's gone up and fat's gone down. Kept my lifts heavy and even increased on some. My swimming has times have improved. My favourite result though, has been the improvement on legs. Upped my squat, leg-press and lunges. Starting to see abs again and adonis belt and pelvic veins are highly visable. Will be on GW soon, alternating 2 weeks on then 2 weeks on clen + yohimbe. Looking forward.
BW: 70kg
MM: 37.2kg
BF%: 7.5%

Some progress, the "before" was taken after a week of cutting (lost 4kgs first week lol) and "after" is present. Wish I took photo's before I started, was about 23% Posting now cause of demand Keep in mind I am a friggen tiny oke, so going from 80kg - 68kg is a big drop. Unfortunate lighting, but the pelvis veins and adonis belt look good, as well as the striation I get in my shoulders is amazing. Weak area's are triceps, forearms and delts. Will try to focus on these on my next bulk. Maybe someday (mid/late 2013-2014) I'll go on a cycle and make some decent gains.

Before



After

Nice progress. Don't use that machines at VA, it's utter bullshit.

iMan wrote: Nice progress. Don't use that machines at VA, it's utter bullshit.

The regular ones are so full of flaws, but the InBody machines they are trailing are pretty accurate.

Furk wrote:

iMan wrote: Nice progress. Don't use that machines at VA, it's utter bullshit.

The regular ones are so full of flaws, but the InBody machines they are trailing are pretty accurate.

Calipers are best. Still well done

Well done !

Dude you look awesome! +1 #Nohomo

23% my brown butthole!

Damn good progress, well done! How long between before and after pics?

Thanks for sharing of your progress, it is indeed impressive. Well done.

@tylerx: Thanks bud.
@Safehouse: Thanks, about 8 weeks. Maintaining a physique is more difficult than achieving it.
@Pyro: 23% when I started cutting. About 20 when I took the photo I think. The first week of keto and depletion workouts did wonders.

Nice one...as u say maintaining is the difficult part. goodluck going forward.

23% BF is where I started when I first went to a dietician many years ago. I was quite dik back then. I would guess you were at 14% when you started and 10% now.

I would agree ....I was 24% and looked a lot dikker

I think he's below 10%

pr0gr3s1v3 wrote: I think he's below 10%

also think so, more in the 8.5% range.

Agreed, different body fat percentages can be deceiving in regards to the amount of meat on ones frame. Looking at his back id also say around 8%

pr0gr3s1v3 wrote: Agreed, different body fat percentages can be deceiving in regards to the amount of meat on ones frame. Looking at his back id also say around 8%

Yeah I've found fat disposition and muscle insertion points are very unique and to a large degree genetic. For example my chest and delts get ripped - striation and vascular. But I have this bizzare fat haunting my lower-stomach/ upper pelvis that makes me look fatter than I think I am.

Anyway, thanks for the comments guys.