Test Enan/Boldenone/Mesterolone/Oxandrolone(?)

Hi,

Looking at using for 10/52's:
1) Test Enan 300mg per week (pw)
2) Boldenone 250mg pw
3) Mesterolone 20mg mane et 20mg nocte

Possibly add in Oxandrolone 20mg tds from week 4-12 (i.e. would extend cycle to 12 weeks)

I have lost quite a bit of weight in the last two years, 107kg Feb 2011, now 89kg BF10-11% and 4-5kg increase in lean mass

My stats:
Age: 37
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 89kg
BF: 10-11% (9 Point Parrillo)

I am left with some saggy skin and nip/tuck not an option. Thinking of targeted bulking up on chest and shoulders to fill up. Although I will obviously exercise all muscle groups.

I am using tissue oil everyday hoping that over the next 1-2 years the skin will shrink, but am aware this probably won't happen and won't have a "Mens Health cover" physique.

My January cycle (I was very impressed with the results, weight dropped from 93->87) was:

1) 50mg Anavar daily (20mg mane, 20mg midday, 10mg nocte Monday to Friday with free weekends).
2) Mesterolone 20mg bd (I am a Pharmacist so used the real mccoy)
3) Legalon, 1T bd (Milk thistle was out of stock everywhere)
Supplemented with:
1000mg Omega 3 and 6 tds
5g Creatine PO4 mane
5g Gly mane
60g USN Whey Protein 20 mins before(04h30) morning gym (mixed with Creat and Gly)
60g USN Pure Protein 15h00 and 21h00

Diet was controlled and eating times strictly adhered to.

Any tips/crits etc?
Thanks

Hi there, how many cycles have you got under the belt? Will this be your 2nd cycle? 3rd?

CycloTrpTyr wrote: Hi,

I am a Pharmacist ..........

If you were one, why is your dosages so confusing ?
Example : Anavar free over weekends....... how did you get that ? The half life is only about 9 hours...
Anyway...

I would recommend

1. Test En - 300mg - 700mg pw
2. Equi - atleast 400mg pw
3. Proviron - 40mg - 60mg ed
4. Adex - on hand
5. Don't use Anavar more that 6 weeks.
6. I would run the test / equi / pro for at least 14 - 16 weeks.
7. What are you going to use in your bridging period ? 40+ days before PCT is +- 6/7 weeks :blink:

Snitch wrote: Hi there, how many cycles have you got under the belt? Will this be your 2nd cycle? 3rd?

Hi Snitch, will be my second cycle.

Oupa wrote:
If you were one, why is your dosages so confusing ?
Example : Anavar free over weekends....... how did you get that ? The half life is only about 9 hours...
Anyway...

I would recommend

1. Test En - 300mg - 700mg pw
2. Equi - atleast 400mg pw
3. Proviron - 40mg - 60mg ed
4. Adex - on hand
5. Don't use Anavar more that 6 weeks.
6. I would run the test / equi / pro for at least 14 - 16 weeks.
7. What are you going to use in your bridging period ? 40+ days before PCT is +- 6/7 weeks :blink:

Hi Oupa,
I partake in a sport at an elite level in which I cannot afford the "pump" Anavar gives, hence my weekend free periods. Not ideal I know, but if you understood what and why I do what I do, you would probably do the same.

Secondly, I am interested in you saying Var shouldn't be used for more than 6 weeks? I did extensive reading and got that 8 weeks should be the minimum and 12 the max.

Upon reading up some more after your question regarding bridging, I am now thinking of rather using the Anavar and Proviron as the bridge.

Lastly, I am not looking at getting overly massive, hence why I'm looking at 12 weeks.

Thanks for the help thus far. Have really opened new avenues of thought.

CycloTrpTyr wrote: Hi Oupa,

I partake in a sport at an elite level in which I cannot afford the "pump" Anavar gives, hence my weekend free periods. Not ideal I know, but if you understood what and why I do what I do, you would probably do the same.
I smell i stripper in the room, late night weekend no steroid cockslaps :lol: <---joke...., could even be a fighter, as muscle pump is just stupid on your biceps...
Understood, pump from var is insane, never felt it @ 20mg, but then again, i have never done Var @ that dose as i feel its a waist. You will anyway test positive for about 3 weeks.... So whats the use of 20mg ? You should be on 50mg min....

Secondly, I am interested in you saying Var shouldn't be used for more than 6 weeks? I did extensive reading and got that 8 weeks should be the minimum and 12 the max.
Extensive reading based on what ? Rats or Humans ? Bud, i have seen many + plenty + n kakhuis vol okes kak off after 10 weeks of var. 8 Weeks low dose should be ok, but i am talking from experience. Take some joint support / liver supp from day 1 if you plan to go past 8 weeks. I DO NOT Recommend this.. yes its mild on your liver, but dont underestimate it...

Upon reading up some more after your question regarding bridging, I am now thinking of rather using the Anavar and Proviron as the bridge.
Good idea ! leave the Var in cycle, time it so that you get 6 - 8 weeks max of var + proviron from your bridge.

Lastly, I am not looking at getting overly massive, hence why I'm looking at 12 weeks.
Change your training program and diet to gain lean muscle, the period of your cycle is not going to make you overly massive, its the diet

Thanks for the help thus far. Have really opened new avenues of thought.
Its always good to see and argue about 100 sides of one situation....

PS - This is my opinion and Good Luck

What sport do you partake in bro? Do they do drug tests?

I agree with oupa,running var for more than 10 weeks is not adviseable,but if you running it at 20mg it shouldnt be prob provided you use liver support! U wont see/feel much of a diff on 20mg,push it up to atleast 40mg..i felt some good strength come from 40mg a day & shed a lil fat

If they test you will be positive for a looooooong time with that EQ.
Pharmacist doest know about Legalon/Milk thistle?
Drop the Anavar - your joints are gonna feel it.
You wont get "massive" on one cycle so dont worry about that.

Snitch wrote: What sport do you partake in bro? Do they do drug tests?

Hehehe, nothing glamorous. I chose the wrong sport to be good in. Spearfishing. Turns out being able to hold your breath for 5 minutes is useful. No drug tests as there is no "money". Only honour and glory, and even that is only amongst my peers (anyway, the only opinions I actually care about). I enjoy the deeper side of diving, 30m+, targeting elusive fish. Therefore the pump is definitely not what I want. A cramp trying to hold a 40kg Kob off the reef at 30m is a one way ticket to Davey Jones' Locker.

Snitch wrote: I agree with oupa,running var for more than 10 weeks is not adviseable,but if you running it at 20mg it shouldnt be prob provided you use liver support! U wont see/feel much of a diff on 20mg,push it up to atleast 40mg..i felt some good strength come from 40mg a day & shed a lil fat

I was only going to run for 8 weeks. And was thinking this time of going to 60mg. I was on 50mg in my first cycle (Anavar and proviron only) to cut down some weight, and harden up a little. I was impressed with the results and my diving even more. Most forums reckoned anything under 60mg was pretty much a waste (although I did get good results with the 50mg). Some even advocate 80mg, but eishh, the money, she's too mush. hehehe

But as I said, I lost quite a bit of weight, but did it SLOW over a 18 month period. Resulted in a ~18kg drop (107kg to 89kg) with a 4-5kg increase in lean. Unfortunately some excess skin which I thought would shrink as I lost the weight slowly didn't. Now I want to target bulk my chest and shoulders to fill up. I realise I am not going to have a "Mens health physique" but at least take care of some of the sag.

jackrabbit1 wrote: If they test you will be positive for a looooooong time with that EQ.
Pharmacist doest know about Legalon/Milk thistle?
Drop the Anavar - your joints are gonna feel it.
You wont get "massive" on one cycle so dont worry about that.

Why the hate dude? I know Legalon is an extract of Silybum marianum. However, as an S3 registered drug, the average Joe can't waltz into any Pharmacy and purchase 200 tabs OTC unless they're mates with the Pharmacist, plus it is rather pricey. I merely mentioned it so that you guys in the know can see I was taking all the precautions. In fact if anything, I probably "overdid" the safety supps which I can say, did work out quite pricey. I was also taking taking high doses Thiamine (which is probably one of the BEST liver "tonics"). For the joints I was taking high doses Omega 3 and Co-Enzyme Q10.

Trust me when I say I have seen first hand the results from guys for whom it went very wrong. And I don't mean gynea and agression like the 5 idiots who went and beat that oke to death at King's Park, etc. I'm talking liver/kidney failure, bones resembling 80 year old osteoporotic women, iatrogenic depression and psychosis ranging from mild to straigh jacket/padded cell to suicide.

I think alot of mistakes some folk make with gear is that they look at the cost of the gear only, they forget to factor in the cost of the supplements, protein shakes and extra chow which why 2 months down the line they start running into problems or worse, they 1) use cheap and nasty or 2) try and do everything quicker thinking results will also come quicker.

CycloTrpTyr wrote:

Snitch wrote: What sport do you partake in bro? Do they do drug tests?
quote]

Hehehe, nothing glamorous. I chose the wrong sport to be good in. Spearfishing. Turns out being able to hold your breath for 5 minutes is useful. No drug tests as there is no "money". Only honour and glory, and even that is only amongst my peers (anyway, the only opinions I actually care about). I enjoy the deeper side of diving, 30m+, targeting elusive fish. Therefore the pump is definitely not what I want. A cramp trying to hold a 40kg Kob off the reef at 30m is a one way ticket to Davey Jones' Locker.

Snitch wrote: I agree with oupa,running var for more than 10 weeks is not adviseable,but if you running it at 20mg it shouldnt be prob provided you use liver support! U wont see/feel much of a diff on 20mg,push it up to atleast 40mg..i felt some good strength come from 40mg a day & shed a lil fat

I was only going to run for 8 weeks. And was thinking this time of going to 60mg. I was on 50mg in my first cycle (Anavar and proviron only) to cut down some weight, and harden up a little. I was impressed with the results and my diving even more. Most forums reckoned anything under 60mg was pretty much a waste (although I did get good results with the 50mg). Some even advocate 80mg, but eishh, the money, she's too mush. hehehe

But as I said, I lost quite a bit of weight, but did it SLOW over a 18 month period. Resulted in a ~18kg drop (107kg to 89kg) with a 4-5kg increase in lean. Unfortunately some excess skin which I thought would shrink as I lost the weight slowly didn't. Now I want to target bulk my chest and shoulders to fill up. I realise I am not going to have a "Mens health physique" but at least take care of some of the sag.

jackrabbit1 wrote: If they test you will be positive for a looooooong time with that EQ.
Pharmacist doest know about Legalon/Milk thistle?
Drop the Anavar - your joints are gonna feel it.
You wont get "massive" on one cycle so dont worry about that.

Why the hate dude? I know Legalon is an extract of Silybum marianum. However, as an S3 registered drug, the average Joe can't waltz into any Pharmacy and purchase 200 tabs OTC unless they're mates with the Pharmacist, plus it is rather pricey. I merely mentioned it so that you guys in the know can see I was taking all the precautions. In fact if anything, I probably "overdid" the safety supps which I can say, did work out quite pricey. I was also taking taking high doses Thiamine (which is probably one of the BEST liver "tonics"). For the joints I was taking high doses Omega 3 and Co-Enzyme Q10.

Trust me when I say I have seen first hand the results from guys for whom it went very wrong. And I don't mean gynea and agression like the 5 idiots who went and beat that oke to death at King's Park, etc. I'm talking liver/kidney failure, bones resembling 80 year old osteoporotic women, iatrogenic depression and psychosis ranging from mild to straigh jacket/padded cell to suicide.

I think alot of mistakes some folk make with gear is that they look at the cost of the gear only, they forget to factor in the cost of the supplements, protein shakes and extra chow which why 2 months down the line they start running into problems or worse, they 1) use cheap and nasty or 2) try and do everything quicker thinking results will also come quicker.

fuck i have tried my best but could never go mad on cycle dammit must be doing something wrong

VonD, i guess you have never seen someone fuckout with depression from Steroid abuse, with all due respect @ 20 years of age, you will feel unbreakable, but your not. Not being a doos, its a fact ! I have seen it, and its fucked up

CycloTrpTyr, Hate speach from jackrabit ? naw boet you havnt seen shit! Honestly, i think you should stop copying and pasting google researched answers and play it open and direct!

Oupa wrote: VonD, i guess you have never seen someone fuckout with depression from Steroid abuse, with all due respect @ 20 years of age, you will feel unbreakable, but your not. Not being a doos, its a fact ! I have seen it, and its fucked up

CycloTrpTyr, Hate speach from jackrabit ? naw boet you havnt seen shit! Honestly, i think you should stop copying and pasting google researched answers and play it open and direct!

yeah thats possible but thats just people own stupidity.And how must you abuse to get that???see okes do 3g of test 1.5g tren ace then just drop it to 300prop a week.so would be fun interesting to see the cycle those people do
as jy dom is moet jy maar sukkel :whistle:

I am merely jesting with JR. :silly:

Anway, back to topic. I was looking at Test Cyp and Enan and both look pretty similar. Which would you recommend?

My thinking was with Test Enan as the available Test % is slightly higher as well as the dosage which looks like more bang for buck. However, is this true?

You give a wide range for Test Enan (300-700mg) pw but reckon I'd prefer stay on the lower end as I'm virgin with it and lower chance of S/E's.

Similarly for the Equi. I'm shite scared of going the higher doses but see PGW has a 350mg/ml dosage so will settle for that.

Otherwise, I am also open to suggestions for alternatives. As I have basically said, I really want to just fill up a bit of skin to reduce the Sharpei look (ok not quite that bad), arms, back, shoulders and legs are pretty well cut with good def (esp legs, diving in current is a real good workout).

I am not interested in taking something which will just swell me up with water, but looking for real lean gain. Hence the Test Enan, Equi and Anavar. I also considered HGH (would obviously use pharm stuff I can order legit) and Primo but alas, haven't won the lotto yet.

VonD wrote: yeah thats possible but thats just people own stupidity.And how must you abuse to get that???see okes do 3g of test 1.5g tren ace then just drop it to 300prop a week.so would be fun interesting to see the cycle those people do
as jy dom is moet jy maar sukkel :whistle:

Not "abuse" in all cases. Some people are unfortunately predisposed to S/E's due to underlying/unknown co-morbidities which are contra indicated . Even with "legit" medicines have horrible side effects nevermind in roid use. The reason you pay big bucks to a doc is because in the examination they should ID any contra indications to meds/disease. Doesn't always happen, but in most cases, it does. Just by using gear for what we intend is construed as abuse as the dosages are high.

Suffice to say, anyone with any psych issues should not even consider gear. Nothing may happen, but the alternatives aren't pretty. (I am probably going to get slammed for saying that)

Cyclo, edit your post and move the Quote to the last word of the person you quoted, not to your last word. Did you notice your posts look confusing as people new to forums wont know WHO DA FAK is saying what.... :lol:


Example what it should look like, VonD's last post...

Lekka, sorted !

id say if you looking for leaner gains with less water retention then you should go for something like a test prop,anavar and proviron cycle test prop will work out slightly more expensive and you will have to pin EOD to keep levels stable.

On almost any cycle you will retain some water, but having a good clean diet will help reduce that, so diet plays a role as well.

This is basically your golden cycle, so you want to mke the most of it,so what we usually recommend here is a Test Cyp and dbol cycle for atleast 10-12 weeks. 500mg test cyp a week split in 2 doses along with 30-40mg dbol daily.

Have to agree with Snitch here.

Seeing it's your 2nd cycle, just keep things simple for now. Provided you don't mind frequent injections, go for that Test Prop, Anavar and Proviron stack. You can even drop the Anavar and up the Proviron dose for water retention to keep things easy on your pocket.

Perhaps read up a bit on T3 which you could also incorporate for effective fatloss. Just an idea, good luck with whatever you decide on.

Regardless if you take the Var on weekends or not, you going to get a pump with or without training, any "sport" is going to cause you to get a pump, whether it be running, surfing, boxing or any other sport.

MK wrote: Have to agree with Snitch here.

Seeing it's your 2nd cycle, just keep things simple for now. Provided you don't mind frequent injections, go for that Test Prop, Anavar and Proviron stack. You can even drop the Anavar and up the Proviron dose for water retention to keep things easy on your pocket.

Thanks, I'm a great believer in the KISS principle. I looked at the TProp but must admit I find the frequency of injections offputting for various reasons.
1) Does the injection have to be in a large muscle group like the glute or can it be switched to the delts i.e. 4 different spots which = a spot getting jabbed once per week.
2) Timing, shit happens, have to rush out to a clinic unexpectedly, have to monitor a patient getting snake bit anti-venom etc etc. If you forget or are unable to take the jab will it matter if you take it a day later? Once every 5-6 days just seems easier to be compliant seeing that alot of capital and time is vested in the project.
3) I am a bit of a ninny :blush: I have no hassle being buzzed by a GWS in the water but needles... the fact that the needle goes in and you DON'T feel anything. That seriously fucks with my mind (no, I'm not into 50 shades and all that).
However, given that Prop does seem to have better results may just sway me that way.

I like the results I got on Anavar only and reckon combined with the Test/Equi, again given the investment it only makes sense. Is way more costly. Just means cancel DSTV, locum an extra weekend and presto. Also see most guys agree Proviron in non-negotiable.

MK wrote: Perhaps read up a bit on T3 which you could also incorporate for effective fatloss. Just an idea, good luck with whatever you decide on.

I looked at Tertroxin during my weight loss as an adjunct but decided the benefit would only be marginally better.
Seeing as with gear I am going to seriously screw with one endocrinological system I feel it prudent to not mess around too much. One thing for an experienced guy training for comps etc who knows how their body reacts, another for virgin joe like me who is in completely unchartered territory. I fully realise that I may start experiencing serious S/E's, having to abandon and start PCT having vested alot but that is the chance we're all willing to take.

CycloTrpTyr wrote:

1) Does the injection have to be in a large muscle group like the glute or can it be switched to the delts i.e. 4 different spots which = a spot getting jabbed once per week.
You dont need 4 different injection sites with your cycle, 2 will do - Delts 23g 1" needle is used, Glutes 23g 1.5" needle is perfect.
2) Timing, shit happens, have to rush out to a clinic unexpectedly, have to monitor a patient getting snake bit anti-venom etc etc. If you forget or are unable to take the jab will it matter if you take it a day later? Once every 5-6 days just seems easier to be compliant seeing that a lot of capital and time is vested in the project. No it wont matter with a long ester steroid, just don't stretch the due date, pin after your adventure...
3) I am a bit of a ninny :blush: Then PROP pin EOD is NOT for YOU
However, given that Prop does seem to have better results may just sway me that way. Regular pinning when you are not keen on needles, BAD idea

Thanks Oupa,

You'd think having given thousands of jabs I would be oblivious, hehehe.

What is your take on the Boldenone? Will I benefit or is it a waste? I picked Test Enan and Boldenone as my understanding leads me to believe the gains are quality lean which taken with Anavar/Primo will remain (in bridging period as you have explained)and not mostly water retention which will simply disappear in a few weeks/months once I stop.

CycloTrpTyr wrote: Thanks Oupa,

You'd think having given thousands of jabs I would be oblivious, hehehe.

What is your take on the Boldenone? Will I benefit or is it a waste? I picked Test Enan and Boldenone as my understanding leads me to believe the gains are quality lean which taken with Anavar/Primo will remain (in bridging period as you have explained)and not mostly water retention which will simply disappear in a few weeks/months once I stop.

Boldenone is good for getting those lean gains bud..but it really does take quite a while to kick into top gear..as mentioned before you will need to run it for 12-16 weeks! and then youve got a bridge of about 50days before starting PCT..(long waiting period) Id go for something else that clears your system quicker and gets to work faster bro

Rather go for something like Test Cyp, anavar and som tren ace/masteron??

I know its quite a strong cycle but this will give you those lean gains and it clears your system quicker that the EQ and Test E

I defiantly wouldn't even consider Tren for my second cycle... Or any cycle for that matter unless I was going to compete.

Ian79 wrote: I defiantly wouldn't even consider Tren for my second cycle... Or any cycle for that matter unless I was going to compete.

Agreed ! Its for the competitive okes.

As for Equi, it works lekka for bulk or cut. Depends what you stack and your discipline in cycle.

Snitch wrote:

CycloTrpTyr wrote: Rather go for something like Test Cyp, anavar and som tren ace/masteron??

@Snitch: If I was a mod, you would be banned!

@CycloTrpSomethingSomething: I laughed at the name of your thread. Perhaps I should change the name of my my first cycle log to:
Testosterone-Enanthate/Boldenone/Mesterolone/Turinabol/Tertroxin/Clenbuterol Hydrochloride/Stanozolol/Diphenhydramine.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch... Because this is your first Test Cycle and considering all above, I would do a basic 500/600mg Test-En cycle frontloaded with 60mg T-Bol ED for 6 Weeks and 60mg Anavar for the last 8 weeks. You will see massive results and very little sides. Remember to have Arimidex on hand for estrogen related gyno. Honestly don't get why everyone is so tentative with their test dosages lately. 300mg ain't gonna do jack shit!

Welcome to the forum! Always nice to have someone from the medical world on your forum.