help with cycle and pct please.

I want some input from you guys please. I'm new to these blogs and articles on Aas, and have found this website to be the most informative and to the point.

I'm planning a 8week cycle, to help me get over the wall I have seem to hit.

Ill start with some input about myself.

I'm 26years old male. 191cm and 83kgs, and have not had My bf% measured, but judging I would say between 10-12%. (have a photo for comparison, but don't know how to upload.
I am "underweight" or skinny due to how active I am and my fast metabolism. I enjoy cycling and trail running and have a job with lots of fiscal and hard labour work.
I have been gymming on and off about 5 years now (10 if you include calling the little I knew back in school gym). Gym was always more cardiovascular oriented. Since 2013 I started to use the iron for some serious pumps.
I have been on a test prop 100 cycle for 8weeks at 50mg eod. Had some good gains, but the running and cardiovascular back then made me loose it again because of not eating enough.
I have a fast metabolism, and am currently eating 3500-4000 kcals clean whole foods a day (45%P, 30%C, 25%Fat) or depending on what day my calorie cycle is at that day. And I use 3x nutritech whey protein shakes , bsn no explode 2.0, glutamin and bcaas and multivitamin daily, as well as 5l water per day.
Over the last 10months, I have picked up some good lean muscle and increased my strength tremendously on a diet that was to low, since I grew up eating a lower carb diet with little to no sugars on average.
But since end may, June this year I have been stuck on the same weight and strength. Yes its probably still improving daily, only not visibly, but its not enough anymore.

So I have been speaking to I friend of mine in the bb Industry, and he helped me think of a possible cycle.
I want to put on some lean mass again (maybe 5kgs or hit 90kgs), but that's not my sole purpose for the Aas this time around.
I want to drop my body body fat and starting to look "cut" at below 10%.

He's suggestion is as follow.

Week 1-8 test prop (merck serono) @400mg/week (pinning Mon/thur)
Week 1-4 Rwr stanazolol (injectable) @ 50-100mgs/week.
Week 5-8 oxandrolone 20 @ 40mgs/day.

Running liver support like liv52 or milk twistle, ON multi vitamin pack, and a added olmega 3 sup, and a Multivitamin. With Aromasin on hand just encase.

With Pct on this I'm not so sure, everyone has a different view on what to do, and the dosing.
Considering Doctari's or the number 2 pct in the sticky about pct.

Would you say hcg on this cycle would be better? Making pct then only 3weeks? Or will something like below suffice?

Weeks 1-8 Aromasin 100mgs/week
Week 9-12 clomid (100,100,50,50)
Week 9-12 nolva (50,50,25,25)

Please give some advice and critique on the cycle and pct.

Thanks

Hi and welcome.

Read this how to post a photo. Please block your face out.

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/11-gene...ictures-on-the-forum

Your prop needs EOD injections and your winstrol and anavar cycle is all wrong.

Test prop @ 100mg EOD week 1 - 10
Winstrol (RWR) Injectable 50mg EOD Week 6 - 12
Proviron 40mg ED Week 1 - 12
HCG 250iu twice a week (500iu)

Add some clen and drop the var

OR

Test prop @ 100mg EOD week 1 - 10
Anavar 60mg ED Week 4 - 12
Proviron 40mg ED Week 1 - 12
HCG 250iu twice a week (500iu)

Add some clen and drop the winstrol

PCT

Clomid @ 50mg for 14 days
Nolvadex @ 20mg ED for 30 days

Post your diet so we can check if you are dialed in with the cycle and goals

Hi Oupa, Thanks for the reply.

My current diet is at 4000kcals a day, (was thinking of dropping to 3500kcals 24/h when on cycle? ?)

Mon - Moderate
Tue - high (4000kcals)
Wed - low (3500Kcals)
Thu - low
Fri - high
Sat - low (drop some protein shakes not crabs as this is my off day)
Son - high (biggest session of the week)

Meal 1 - 06:00 - shake -
- Nutrient whey, 100ml double cream joghart, 2x eggs, 100-150g spinach, 15g peanut butter, banana, apple, 50-80g oats =750kcals

Meal 2, 9-10:00 - stir fry. (post workout) 1serv Bsn Amino X during training, and 1serv Bsn Cellmass + (60g pro, 100g carbs, 20g fat)
- chicken with brown rice, barley, sweet potato, potato, squash. Or
- rye bread with tuna, hellmans mayo, provita, cottage cheese, with fruit and eggs

Meal 3. 13:00 (no carbs on low carbs days) (60g protein, 100g carbs, 20g fat)
4-6 boiled eggs, cheese, 50-100g biltong, chilling bites, droewors, salami, tuna salad, chopped n wors ect.

Meal 4. 16:00 (60g protein, 20g Fat)
- eggs, biltong, droewors, almond, Brazil and wall nuts, cheese ect

Meal 5. 17-17:30. Bsn no explode 2.0 + fruit.

Meal 6, post workout shake (60g protein, 50-100g carbs, 20g Fat)
- whey, spinach, kale, coconut oil, berries, banana, milk, joghart, linseed, pumpkin seeds, honey.

Meal 7, 30min after PW shake. (60g protein, 50-100g carbs, 20g Fat)
Fish, meat, chicken 150-250g with vegs, greens and stachy vegs on high carbs day like sweet potato or mash.

Meal 8. 22:00 bed time shake.
Casein protein, milk, eggs, cottage/cream cheese.


On low carbs days I drop my carbs by around 100g (400kcals), and on a Saturday I drop the wake up and post workout shake and replace with smaller, lower protein meals, because its my off day.

I don't do take aways, sugars (sweets, chocolates or fizzy drinks), alcohol or smoke, and drink 5l water a day excluding shakes, or water in the gym.
I do a 30min-1hour cardiovascular sessions in the morning between 9-10 (construction industry job allows it) with mostly body weight exercises, pull ups, tire slam, skipping resistance band ect in my diy build jungle gym. And 1-1,5-2hours in the evening of full body, isolation training. And always try and keep my heart rate above 100bpm on my polar while training by utilizing my rest periods and doing extra exercises in between my sets to create supersets. On a Sunday I don't gym twice, do some running or cycling or climbing the afternoon.
The reason I'm elaborating on this, is due to my question.
I did a test 2weeks ago, wearing my polar 24/h a day for one week. According to the hrm, I burn 4200kcals on avarege every day. (400-600kcals in my morning between( 800-1300kcals in my evening Session) Would this mean that I have to increase my calories to above that to stop me from loosing weight? Or would you recommend dropping the morning session?

Just to educate myself, the reason for not doing winny and var on the same cycle is because of both being a C-17 liver toxic drug, or the fact that I am yet to use either and don't know how they will react to my system?

What would the benefits be of running prov in the cycle with var, did some reading up on it, but its a drug I don't know enough of to feel safe about yet?
Which of stanzol or anavar would be the better drug for my goals?
If any drug, but only one extra compound Aswith prop, what would it be in your opinion? I'm still a little scared of running multiple compounds as this is only my second cycle, and i don't want any sides or irreparable damage to my organs.

Thanks for the info, and sorry I'm taking so long to reply, but works a bitch today.

Photo of my torso for bf% comparison

Razorblade88 wrote: Would this mean that I have to increase my calories to above that to stop me from loosing weight? Or would you recommend dropping the morning session? Increase calories.

Just to educate myself, the reason for not doing winny and var on the same cycle is because of both being a C-17 liver toxic drug, or the fact that I am yet to use either and don't know how they will react to my system? Both, possible liver damage and not knowing how you will respond.

What would the benefits be of running prov in the cycle with var, did some reading up on it, but its a drug I don't know enough of to feel safe about yet? Winstrol lowers Sex- Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) dramatically. Also see the Proviron profile for how it binds to SHBG instead. Using both of these compounds at the same time, will dramatically free up a huge amount of testosterone to actively cycle your bloodstream. The more free testosterone the better its activity will be.
Which of stanzol or anavar would be the better drug for my goals? Winstrol & Proviron combo
If any drug, but only one extra compound Aswith prop, what would it be in your opinion? Equipoise or Primo I'm still a little scared of running multiple compounds as this is only my second cycle, and i don't want any sides or irreparable damage to my organs. Irresponsible steroid use causes sides and shit not compounds.

Thanks for the info, and sorry I'm taking so long to reply, but works a bitch today.

There is so many options you can take with your current physique. Actually very easy to work with someone so lean.

Hi oupa,

So I have been doing some more research and reading up the last couple of days, aswell as speaking to some guys I know with a lot more experience than me. And after all this I have come to what I will be ordering today if you approve.

Weeks 1-10 Test Prop @ 400mg/week
Weeks 5-12 Rwr stanazolol (Injections) @ 150mg/week
Weeks 5-12 Proviron @ 25mg/day (175mg/week)

Weeks 1-12 HCG @500iu/week (2x 250Iu)

Pct clomid + novla
Arimedex on hand incase.

I will have a few b12shots and blood test while on cycle.
I have milk twistles, but struggling to get ahold of liv52, will go for essentials otherwise.
Will also be adding a joint and tendon lubrication/protector while running winstrol.

I know some of the components, like the Proviron is low dose perhaps. But because its only my second cycle I'm still carefull for sides on higher doses. But I do believe that with this stack and dosing, and my diet, training and cardio being a eagle under par (or so I want to Believe) that I will reach my goals. They're reasonable as I know the Aas is not magic, and I have to work my as off, and eat it back on;)

When you say "eat more" my question is not how do chow down 4500-5000 calories + a day? Chuck half you food in the prcessor? And which macro should I add, or what Food?In How many calories should I do while on Cycle if I only want to gain if possible lean muscle, but also cut down on my fat to have a better Look?

The bsn No Xplode, and the Cellmass as pre and post workout has 5g of monodrate in together, is it ok to use creatine while on Cycle?

In Oct theres a marathon, and I'm thinking of taking part in the 10km race for fun. Would this be bad idea while on perhaps the above mentioned cycle,or any cycle, will the test or any part of the stack be influencing my running ability?

Planning on starting next week due to the extended time of cycle to my original idea of 8weeks without pct. Done want to be pinning late into Dec.

If there is anyone else that has done a simular cycle and has tips or critique, or any advise will be appreciate.

Thanks for all the advice Oupa.

There is very little benefit using injectable winstrol over taking it orally. Oral winstrol still has a high bioavailibility. Winstrol injections can be very painful and really not worth the benefit over oral winny. 150mg/week is not enough for decent results even for a newbie. Rather go with 30-40mg a day. You can drink it straight from the syringe or just buy winstrol tabs/capsules.

What "tendon lubrication/protector" are you talking about?

Muscleaddict wrote: There is very little benefit using injectable winstrol over taking it orally. Oral winstrol still has a high bioavailibility. Winstrol injections can be very painful and really not worth the benefit over oral winny.

Indeed, but also worth adding is the risk of infection from water-based injectables. Most infections I'm aware of we're all from injectable Winstrol.

Thank you for the info MA and admin.

I can get the Rwr winstrol depot at the same price as the oral as well as the depot winny from axio labs. Do you think I should be going for the tabs, or instead keep to the Rwr (I heard its better quality with less white powder settling at the Bottom) and just drink it from syringe...?
I was planning on buying 21gauge needles because of winstrol that could block it , but if I'm going to be drinking the winstrol, can I go with a smaller size, say 22Gauge if ill only be pinning prop eod?
I was planning on three 50mg shots of winny per week, will up that to 4shots and 200mg/day. Depending how I feel, ill then up it to say 40mg/day.

I have been reading on multiple sites and blogs that winny tend to dry out your joints and can cause you to hurt a tendon or something, so I'm looking into a supplement that will maybe help lube my joints and prevent this from hindering my training when I'm Pinning(swallowing :silly: ). Looks like Vital has something I can look into perhaps. Have you experienced any such side on stanazolol MA? If so, what do you use..?

Razorblade88 wrote: I can get the Rwr winstrol depot at the same price as the oral as well as the depot winny from axio labs.

That's not right, you are either overpaying for the orals or the RWR Winstrol is fake. RWR is one of the more expensive brands, because it's from a registered veterinary medicine manufacturer and has to be obtained from a licensed distributor like a vet and he will surely add a markup.

Razorblade88 wrote: I heard its better quality with less white powder settling at the Bottom

RWR Winstrol is a suspension, meaning that the hormone is not dissolved, so if there is LESS powder settling to the bottom it means that it's actually dosed lower and of a lesser quality. More powder settling to the bottom is a good thing, not bad. I don't think we are talking about the real RWR here, probably a knockoff product branded as RWR.

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/gallery/category/133-stanazol

Razorblade88 wrote: ....will up that to 4shots and 200mg/day. Depending how I feel, ill then up it to say 40mg/day. Surely not 200mg a day ? 200mg per week

I have been reading on multiple sites and blogs that winny tend to dry out your joints and can cause you to hurt a tendon or something, so I'm looking into a supplement that will maybe help lube my joints and prevent this from hindering my training when I'm Pinning(swallowing :silly: ). Looks like Vital has something I can look into perhaps. Have you experienced any such side on stanazolol MA? If so, what do you use..? Arthro Choice

Nothing works to help with joint pain on winstrol for me except nandrolone. I can't even tell a difference if I take arthrochoice. On my last cycle I could barely bench 5 reps of a weight I can normally do for 10 because it felt like my shoulders and elbows were going to snap. Probably old age kicking in :dry: .

30+ and blame the age thing

Sorry Oupa, yes 200mg/week not per day.

Ma, ill go and read some more on the joint pains thank you, but will give the artho choice a chance when I start with the winstrol.

Admin can I perhaps upload some photos that I just took at the dealer, and you can have a look to see if the stuff looks fake...? Took photos of the rwr winstrol, axio lab winstrol and the testo. But not of the winstrol tabs as he did not have it with him when we met earlier on...

Thanks for the replies guys..

Sure, you can post the photos.

Always good to take an arthroguard/arthrochoice supplement on cycle. You'll probably be fine on the winny - just take it easy if you start feeling any straining on your joints/ligaments.

Oupa wrote: 30+ and blame the age thing

The wrong side of 30 lol. 3 weeks on winny on my last cycle and I could barely bench 5 reps of the weight I normally do for an easy 10 rep first set because of my joints. Then during PCT I was back to pushing my normal weights with no pain. Same thing with my knees after squats. But I still love winny for how it chisels you up.

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The Rwr looks like the picture in the album on site, but cant seem to find either the testo or the axio labs...
Let me know what you think please.

Do you prefer winstrol over anavar when you are cutting MA? I had a hard to deciding which to go with, but after the link Oupa posted about proviron that matches with winny because of sex drive I had to go with that.. haha..

The RWR and Axio both look fine to me. If I have to go for an injectable I will go for the RWR one.

MA im still few years aways from old man age, haha, but I do often have painfull joint in a heavy session as they tend to knak (pop) alot. So I believe prevention is beter than cure.


Thank you Admin, but its my bad, rookie error. I did not check difference in dosages between orals and depot winstrol. My supply says accoring to him, orals are of lesser quality than that of depots. So he was going for a high mg dosage per day on orals thats why price was the same.
Anyways, doesnt matter im going with the recommended dosages Oupa and MA. I always lean more towards trusting someones info, thats not also trying to sell me the stuff..

Admin, can I run prices by you. To make sure im not overpaying?
Thanks

Your supplier is taking through his ass, the Winstrol used in orals and those in depots are exactly the same, no difference whatsoever.

You can email me the prices, but don't post them here please.

Good day gents,
Sorry for the long delay in replying, work is busy and gym robs me of any free time I might have had.

So I decided that ill go with the route Oupa suggested, but maybe add a twist.

I did my first pin on Sunday two weeks ago.

I'm going with the following,
1-12 Test prop (400mg/week) (4x 0,5ml/100mg) pins.
2-6 Lp Anavar @ (40mg/Day) will increase to 60 or 80.

*4-14 Proviron @ (20-60mg/day)
*10-14 rwr winstrol @ 250mg/week

Pct is sorted, and I'm running 2x 250iu hcg/week

I have proper multi vits, fish oils, liv 52, milk twistles, B12, Folic acid, blood pressure stuff, creatine, bcaas, glutamine, etc that I use daily as support.

So the first week I just wanted to ease into my cycle, so just did my prop pins. First one gave me a slight lammie on injection site, but from there on in, I'm pain free. (used same prop previous cycle also with very little to no pain and pip) I Pin every second day (and sometimes everyday to get to 400mg/week), and even pin glutes on a leg day, and have no prob at all. Second week I started anavar. Today is start of week three. And I have already noticed some changes. Biggest and most notable is, firstly the "superhuman" feeling I have. I feel so strong and good, full of energy, even after a 2hour plus session, I have enough to keep going the entire day and extras during the day. My strength is starting to increase, forcing those last two reps are easier, and my recovery time has halved In the last week. I'm never ever sore or stiff anymore, and like last week I did chest twice as I used my extra day for upper chest. It came down to four hours + of only chest in 4 days, and no Doms or any pains.
Then my weight has sky rocket, I was stuck on81- 82 for 4+months. Last two weeks I went from 82kgs to 85,6kgs this morning. And no I don't think I picked up much fat with that weight as my pics, and abs show improvement. I'm on 4000-4200 calories (100% clean and controlled) every day, at a 40 protein, 30 crabs and fat macro split.

So I have a couple of questions please,

So this will be my second week on anavar, and maybe its a placebo effect still, but I do feel a few things have changed since starting anavar. For one my appetite is less, and I now have to force myself more to eat than I use to. My smaller muscles are also starting to feel harder. But there is two things that I'm not use to. Yesterday I did some bi's tri's and fore arms, but I got to I point I have never reached before, my left forearms vein got so big it started hurting, it felt like the pressure in there is to much and its going to pop. I had to cut short some of the planned fore arm exercise. Also the rest of my body, specially shoulders, chest and arms has started to show some serious veins which I still have to get use to.. So this week still I'm staying on 40mg anavar a day, but was thinking of upping that to 60mg day next week, or even 80 the week after? Would this be necessary? And how much more veins will it bring?

Then I was wondering about the proviron, when I ordered my cycle, I still had not read enough on proviron to be sure I wanted to include it into my cycle. So I decided to wait as I can add it later if I find it would bennifit me after doing more research. I can get it at a good price and as its not to expensive and I can afford, I thought to ask if you guys think it would be a good call..? I have no estrogen problems, and not any sex drive problems yet. So not being included for those qualities it possess, would it be beneficial for building lean muscle and later on tapering my diet to cut a bit..? What dose would be low, but still enough to not be a waist of cash.. Was think of 2x 20mg tabs day..? Just to make sure, Proviron is Not liver Toxic???

Then my last question for now, as you will see Oupa, I'm enquiring again about the winny. (did not order or buy it yet)
If I do my anavar for 5 weeks, and then quit the oral except for proviron for 4 weeks, would I be able to add windy into the last part of my cycle for 4 weeks, 2 weeks past my prop into my bridge at 250mg week.? I was thinking of bringing down my calories then, to about maintenance for the winny to help tighten my skin.

Will add a photo to show some of my progress.

Thank you for reading guys, please let me know what you think or suggest.
Cheers.