pregnyl during course

on doctaris recommendation from his pct article i have used 1000iu pregnyl each week since i started my cycle 4 weeks ago.

i am taking 350mg deca + 450mg test e per week

my problem is my nipples are getting sensitive and acts like they do after a day of surfing (erect etc). sorry this sounds bit weird but i need a little advice. do i keep the pregnyl and take an estrogen blocker for few days , or drop pregnyl to 500iu per week or drop pregnyl alltogether?

also i would like to know if hot flushes are normal on this type of course


(i know some one will take the piss...)

thanks

Cut the Pregnyl in half and inject sc twice a week.

I think you should stop the pregnyl and sort out your tits with Letro first and then use 500IU pregnyl per week afterwards.

Agreed with Jack on this one. Are you using a SERM/A.I. with the HCG? You need something to combat/blunt the gyno while staying on the HCG

ok - general concensus seems drop the pregnyl and take letro untill tits better, then start with pregnyl again but 500iu per week. correct?

how long do i take the letro for and what dosage, bearing in mind i have no lumps forming but just "stonies"

thanks again guys

inja - what is ser/a.i ? i only take what i stated, and i will only add the letro. which is best:letro or another alternative?

No you are not correct about the consensus.

SERM - Selective estrogen receptor modulator (e.g. tamoxifen)
A.I. - Aromatase inhibitor (e.g. letro)

rothchilds wrote:

ok - general concensus seems drop the pregnyl and take letro untill tits better, then start with pregnyl again but 500iu per week. correct?

how long do i take the letro for and what dosage, bearing in mind i have no lumps forming but just "stonies"

thanks again guys

inja - what is ser/a.i ? i only take what i stated, and i will only add the letro. which is best:letro or another alternative?

Something I googled:
SERM – Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.
Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI – Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.
Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and I suggest you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI. Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. I have often heard the argument that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that I have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe I recommend starting it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently. Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno…let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. I recommend people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone. Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .25mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally I have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot. You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can’t guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.

Do as Inja and Jack said.

Simple, take a bit of nolva, pointless taking letro as you have all the free estrogen. should be gone in a few days... you can then chose to take an AI of a very low dose to prevent excess estrogen during the cycle.

I thought Deca and Nolva on cycle is a no go.

True.. didn't read he was on deca... guess only option is then taking letro and using Parlodel to lower progesterone.

HCG might stimulate your HPTA and testies to produce test but it also raises estrogen levels considerably. I have a mate who developed gyno just after his cycle as he went on to HCG. You should get letro in there immediately before those man boobs start forming proper. Hot flushes come on high dosages of HCG i remember a friend was wacking 5000 IU twice per week in his pct bout 7-8 years ago and he was moaning about hot flushes big time. Excess estrogen is the cause so once again get that letro in there.

Therefor its safer to shoot lower HCG doses (and this also lowers the risk of HCG induced leydig cell ignorance, but the A.I. helps with that to).

i didnt take any pregnyl this week and the hot flushes and nipple tenderness is completely gone! i am considering not taken pregnyl again untill the pct

do you think i must still take the letro to be safe? my bodyfat is not very low so i cannot easily see with just feeling the pecs. if i must still do letro (and stay of pregnyl untill pct), how must i take and for how long? i have 5 weeks left on cycle (i am not taking anything else except the test and dec)

Have you taken any letro already, or thinking of still starting.

If I were you I'd first consider lowering the HCG before stopping completely, even 250i.u. E3D is a fine dose. You could run the letro for a short period to lower existing estrogen or simply keep it on hand.

i took letro 0.5mg then 1mg and yesterday 1.5mg - and it makes HUGE diff. i am thinking i dont need to go up to 2.5mg , then keep for 4-7 days and then taper down, as i never had gyno ACTUALLY start. maybe start tapering today1.5mg again and the taper down to 0.25mg as maintenance dose for next 6 weeks of cycle. i will start pregnyl again today 250iu twice weekly
what u think inja?
note - the letro makes me feel very tired and "hormonal". is this the letro or missing pregnyl or combo ?

lol........

I don't know letro doesn't do that to me and i'm on 2.5mg a day....

funnly enough i'm looking forward to ending this course and just cleaning out my body!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It does sound like perhaps you had a scare that was not really gyno related at all.
Drop the letro dosage completely (0.5 max) if you want to take it and resume the HCG as you say (250i.u. x 2). You could keep the letro at this dose till your last inject to be sure, and increase again if the HCG has an effect again when you reintroduce it. It's hard to tell with higher body fats so perhaps a cautious approach is best.
But your symptoms seemed to revert really quickly...

milktuds wrote:

I thought Deca and Nolva on cycle is a no go.

Is it okay to use Tomaxofin while on Equipoise+Enanthate?

is it true that the problem with nolva with a Test cycle will reduce your gaines consideribly because it blocks the estrogen which stimulates an increase in IGF-1 which is a contributer to the mass you gain in the cycle?

Is that extra weight you gain not fat?i also read that estrogen makes you fat easily...

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

Boetie wrote:

milktuds wrote:

I thought Deca and Nolva on cycle is a no go.

Is that extra weight you gain not fat?i also read that estrogen makes you fat easily...

:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

Hence why women complain about being fat. This is why our body fat % is more than in men because of our oestrogen. This is why we have fat thighs and big asses, it sucks but we have evolved this way. You men should consider yourselves lucky

It is unfair i supose...

gona stock up on that nolva,dont whant to want to avoid the rATH OF estrogen...:S

Tamoxifen (Nolvadex etc) will not lower estrogen but rather block its action in specific tissues (like the breast) so you will still have higher than normal levels of circulating estrogen.

Exactly... so it will not hinder your gains...

And once again I would rather lower estrogen and not have fatty depostis build up by the estrogen and extra water and what I put on I keep...

the bloat boys that swell up and a few weeks later you see them and its like somebody has deflated their baloon...

also the extra sides you get with higher estrogen levels

Beesting wrote:

This is why we have fat thighs and big asses, it sucks but we have evolved this way. You men should consider yourselves lucky

Evolved from what?

jackrabbit1 wrote:

Beesting wrote:

This is why we have fat thighs and big asses, it sucks but we have evolved this way. You men should consider yourselves lucky

Evolved from what?

monkeys if you wanna put it that way. Women have evolved the way we have for various reasons but one of them being that women have to give birth. Our bodies, including the fat thighs etc, have evolved the way they have for this very reason.