Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey

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15 Jun 2018 12:40 - 15 Jun 2018 12:41 #216315 by Rooi Bul 86
Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey was created by Rooi Bul 86
New Plan.

Meal 1 50g oats, 5 boiled eggs, 250ml Skim Milk, 1 orange

Meal 2 100g chicken breast, 100g broccoli

Meal 3 200g Fish Fillet, 1 medium sweet potato, 100g Broccoli

Meal 4 100g chicken breast, 100g baby spinach.

Macros: 150 P /100 Carbs / 80 Fat. 1700 Calories I left 100 Cals out for my Intra and Post workout Vitargo Drink.

It is on you. It always has been...
Last edit: 15 Jun 2018 12:41 by Rooi Bul 86.

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15 Jun 2018 13:11 #216317 by Rooi Bul 86
Replied by Rooi Bul 86 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
I take 1/2 serving Intra and half a serving Post of the Vitargo.

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  • Razorblade88
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15 Jun 2018 13:56 #216318 by Razorblade88
Replied by Razorblade88 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
HI RB,

So maybe Im wrong here,but a quick Calc with your stats from last year in the posts above, it comes out at 2140Cal for Maintenance.
My Personal experience is that when I take my Cals under Maintenance I start to loose muscle and not so much fat, I feel Kak, have no energy and find its just not worth it.

1800Cal at your stats of 106, even 100kg maybe atm is low imo.
Why have you decided to go this low?
If you do decide to drop down to this level, make sure you dont one day wake up and drop from 3000cals to 1800, Take a week or 10days, drop 200 cals eod and see how your body reacts, how it effects your energy levels and how you feel. If you then need more than the 1800cal to function normaly, your body will let you know in the days you start to drop cals below maintenance.

Like I said, Just my opinion and experience, our Body fat levels are a bit different and my diet is completely different, so likely this can work for you for short period of time, but I just think that is very low Cals for a big guy like yourself.

keep us posted on how it goes

Every morning you have two choices : continue to sleep with your dreams, or get up and chase them......!!!
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15 Jun 2018 14:49 - 15 Jun 2018 14:50 #216319 by Rooi Bul 86
Replied by Rooi Bul 86 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
Thanks Bud.

My Body fat is way high now. I will weigh measure and calculate tommorrow.

I won't drop that low from the get go, I will clean up my diet first and then drop a couple hundred every 3rd day dow to 1800 and hang around there I while like you said to see how it feels.

The reason I dropped it that low is that I have to drop alot of weight fast. I am going to get flack for what I am about to say next but, I have to get down to 82kg max. I abviously would like to retain as much muscle as possible but I have to be a lean 80-82kg.
Two reasons for this is I have go be lighter and smaller and faster and more mobile for my job. My age is also starting to count against me. Second reason is I finaly have a goal a picture of a real person +- 2cm my Length I want to look like the dude and I got his diet and macros so just decided to go with it as a cut for as long as it takes.

I have previously done a cut on 1800 cals a day and I functioned and trained and did well at my job.

It is on you. It always has been...
Last edit: 15 Jun 2018 14:50 by Rooi Bul 86.

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15 Jun 2018 18:06 #216320 by Razorblade88
Replied by Razorblade88 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
I too this year entered the 30s B) that and Post Marriage fear of letting go, is what got me to running first anabolic cycle again in more than 2 years, although I ran SARMS most of this time.

No Judgement from my side buddy, but a tall Oder none the less. Not impossible, but you Will lose muscle in the process as well, you will become "weaker" at first until your body find the sweet spot (hopefully at the 82kg mark) then when you stay at the same weight for some time and allow the muscle fibres to become denser again, you will become stronger again.

First thing I would personally do is drop to Zero Cals of carbs for 6 days of the week, not even low Carb, but no Carb. You obviously are familiar with Low carb diets and how your body starts using fat as Energy and not carbs. FIrst 10-14 dayz is often a struggle.
Problem we still have is in theory 1kg of fat is 3500cals, and IMO generally accepted is 2500cals for 1kgs of normally hydrated muscle (although the Mods can chip in here to change the equation, as there are conflicting view on how many cals 1kg of muscle is, how many cals it takes to build 1kg of pure muscle, and there are No studies indication how many cals in deficit you need in order to lose or burn 1kg of muscle).

So, if we get you to 10% bf at 80kg, meaning still having 8kgs of fat, or let's say +-7%bf and around 5kg of fat left on you. At the moment you are say 106kg at let's say 20%bf, that means you have 21kgs of fat on your body, and we need you to lose around 26kgs to get close to 80kg range. So21kg minus the 5kg we leave on you, gives us 16kg of fat that you can lose. In other words getting to 80kg will cost you about 10kg of muscle. This means that your body needs to burn (16kg of fat @3500Cals/kg = 56000cals + 10kg Muscle @2500Cals/kg = +-25000 Cals ) equalling around 80 000 caloric deficit to burn away that 26kgs. So if we drop cals even 1000 below TDEE (if we multiply your BMR with say only 1,5 it gives us around 3200Cals for TDEE, now judging by what you say with regards to your job I think it could be even more as you are active then all day) So, let's say you keep at around 2000 cals a day (still below BMR), you will need like 80days to get to this, yes in the beginning you will lose some water and it will go quicker, but for 10 weeks+ with one high Cal/Carb day a week gives us around 90days to burn all those Cals. This is all just theory, and you will need weekly caloric surplus re-feeding days IMO if you are planning on running 3+months below BMR. I have no experience with regards to how healthy it would be running that long under BMR, maybe you can try and do some research, I'll find out what I can for you as well.
I know you probably know all of this and don't need me explaining so much, All I'm trying to show with this theoretical sum is to remind you that losing weight quick is never good, you'll need time, maybe more than 3 months, you also need to know your weight loss will include some muscle but not become unmotivated by this.

So I think it's the SARMS thread that you say you are considering dropping anabolics for the next two years and only running SARMS. I can't say much about SARMS and cutting as I have not ever used it for that purpose with a caloric deficit diet, and YOU know much much more about SARMS and the research around it than me, but I think Anabolics like Test, Clen and later perhaps the Tren you want to try will help you out tremendously in this regard, to spare muscle and promote fat loss.
I think I would also consider dropping lifting for the first few weeks and only doing Cardio as we know this is the sure way to lose weight by burning muscle;) after a month of two you can start to lift again and rebuild some of the lost muscle after the fat is gone, I'm a believer in muscle memory, and you have many years of memory:)

Most important thing in my opinion is your head will need to be in the game, as this will be one Helllll of a ride, without Alcohol, cake or KFC unfortunately. I can't think of many worst things to go through than lose so much Muscle and to see your hard earned body changing, but it's a "short" period versus the investment in your future in the long run of things considering your job and goal look.

So, Good Luck Buddy, especially with the hunger as I would starve to death. Keep us updated on how it's going please. And if you can, drop some Photos, so we can follow the process on how it changes your body and overall look.

Every morning you have two choices : continue to sleep with your dreams, or get up and chase them......!!!
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15 Jun 2018 19:06 - 15 Jun 2018 19:10 #216322 by Rooi Bul 86
Replied by Rooi Bul 86 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
Wow +1 for that detailed and very helpfull response.

Look I can't say too much about my actaul current job at this time. We have to prove our worth and I as an individual also have to prove my worth wy it is worth their while to still keep me on, yearly but if notified 3 months in advance they kan test you twice a year at least 6 months apart. You have to make the fitness tests.

My next test Date is Next Year July 4th.

I know quick is not the best but if I can reach it lets say even if it takes me 6 to 8 months then great. But if i can do it in 3 to 4 months it would be great to get used to being that weight and size and that strength and like you said time to improve my power to weight ratio.

So is 1800 cals a big enough deficit? Or would I need to reduce further?

I will definitely keep you guys updated and do progress reports and do only before and after photos.

For now I have enough faith in the SARMs that I know and have tried so I will stick with no more than two at a time. But also thinking of doing only Mk 677 and Test Propionate for this and obviously if going gets tough do Clen and Yohimbine

It is on you. It always has been...
Last edit: 15 Jun 2018 19:10 by Rooi Bul 86.

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16 Jun 2018 09:21 #216325 by Rooi Bul 86
Replied by Rooi Bul 86 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
Hi Razor.

I just checked the last time on my first big weightloss yourney I was under BMR for 8 months but I did only towards the end start doing weekly sometimes only two weekly re feeds with high Carbs.

I dont know much about reverse dieting but after I reach my goal weight I am definitey going to reverse diet. Just dont have a clue how to do it.

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16 Jun 2018 10:43 - 16 Jun 2018 10:49 #216326 by Endomorph
Replied by Endomorph on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: Hi Razor.

I just checked the last time on my first big weightloss yourney I was under BMR for 8 months but I did only towards the end start doing weekly sometimes only two weekly re feeds with high Carbs.


I dont know much about reverse dieting but after I reach my goal weight I am definitey
going to reverse diet. Just dont have a clue how to do it.


reverse dieting u would need to start slowly reintroducing carbs about a 50-100grams per day this all depends how u feel u can even do 25g - 50grams pd (droping fat calories in the process if u are on keto) a day depening on how u feeling and slowing reach ur maintenance level then going above maintenance maybe 1000 calories -1500 calories and stay in that range.
Last edit: 16 Jun 2018 10:49 by Endomorph.

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16 Jun 2018 18:06 #216331 by Rooi Bul 86
Replied by Rooi Bul 86 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
I am going to stick to the planned macros I feel the balanced approach deserves a shot. Keto works well but the rebound afterwards is demotivating and disheartening.

So how do I reverse diet after my proposed macros? How much calories do I up weekly?

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17 Jun 2018 12:41 - 17 Jun 2018 12:46 #216339 by Endomorph
Replied by Endomorph on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: I am going to stick to the planned macros I feel the balanced approach deserves a shot. Keto works well but the rebound afterwards is demotivating and disheartening.

So how do I reverse diet after my proposed macros? How much calories do I up weekly?


Rooi bull sorry just repost ur actual diet that u are using so I can give u the most accurate answer possible....u have to reach a surplus in calories bud to reverse diet 2300 calories is maintenance for u bud not enough.

keto rebound? if u go off ur diet completely then i can see where this can be an issue but slowly reintroducing food u should avoid a drastic rebound bloat look which will be mostly water anyway.
Last edit: 17 Jun 2018 12:46 by Endomorph.

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17 Jun 2018 13:21 - 17 Jun 2018 13:48 #216340 by Endomorph
Replied by Endomorph on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: I am going to stick to the planned macros I feel the balanced approach deserves a shot. Keto works well but the rebound afterwards is demotivating and disheartening.

So how do I reverse diet after my proposed macros? How much calories do I up weekly?


Rooi bull sorry just repost ur actual diet that u are using so I can give u the most accurate answer possible....u have to reach a surplus in calories bud to reverse diet 2300 calories is maintenance for u bud not enough.

example 1800 calories on for two months
reverse diet calories goal 3500.
3500 less 1800 = 1700 calories
1700 ÷ 8 weeks = 213 calories per week
213 ÷ 7 days = 31 calories increase per day

during the surplus again depending how u look and feel I would incorporated chest meals but don't over eat here only eat till u satisfied.

just remember a keto diet is 60 - 70% fat 20-30% protein and the rest from carbs which should be under 50gr for ketosis unless u are doing a ckd styles keto.


disclaimer just for furk: Please note this is how I would do this for myself if I was trying to achieve Roois goal and had the same physical attributes.
I'm not a doctor and nor am I a qualified dietitian this info is based on my own research.
Last edit: 17 Jun 2018 13:48 by Endomorph.

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17 Jun 2018 14:00 #216341 by Rooi Bul 86
Replied by Rooi Bul 86 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
New Plan.

Meal 1 50g oats, 5 boiled eggs, 250ml Skim Milk, 1 orange

Meal 2 100g chicken breast, 100g broccoli

Meal 3 200g Fish Fillet, 1 medium sweet potato, 100g Broccoli

Meal 4 100g chicken breast, 100g baby spinach.

Macros: 150 P /100 Carbs / 80 Fat. 1700 Calories I left 100 Cals out for my Intra and Post workout Vitargo Drink.

The focus should be more on the Macros. I am obviously going to vary the meals or exchange with others but reach those Macros. The Macros are the goal here but I think you know that. Really appreciate the help Man

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18 Jun 2018 06:31 #216347 by Rooi Bul 86
Replied by Rooi Bul 86 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
So the Resluts are in.

109.3kg and 19.5% Body Fat.

Have not seriously trained or dieted since 13 April. Wanted the MK 677 to help heal some nagging minor but irritating injuries trained only Twice a week very light just to keep muscle tone and fullnes.

I ate Saturady and Sunday at the new Calories and Macros and felt fine. Spent about half the day yesterday with my Dad in his Workshop doing jobs for his clients so we were busy on our feet walking around a lot. Was fine no issues. Then we went for a good 160km Ride on the Motorbikes.

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18 Jun 2018 13:08 #216352 by Razorblade88
Replied by Razorblade88 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
Hi RB,

Sorry for only replying now pal, but was unable to do over the weekend as we went away for the weekend, and then the wife is strict on using any form of technology ;)

So I'll also start of by saying I'm NO expert on reverse dieting, although I have twice done it and increased my "Body Fat set point", once I dieted a few weeks for the sole purpose of reversing it to find and then increase my metabolic rate and body fat set point, which I found easiest to maintain with my lifestyle at around 8%BF and 3230Cals. (I'm on cycle now, and doing a little under 3600cals/24h, but will also have to find my set point again after my cycle as I have added some good muscle) So my opinions and advice is only based on my own experience, implemented over the years from reading up on studies, and advice from friends in the industry.

So our bodies sole purpose at the end of the day is to be healthy, to be able to stay alive as long as possible, and it will do whatever it have to in order to protect itself, even from its own mind.

So let's start with your Macros, I have thought about it over the weekend, and think that it's a good idea running a more balanced macro diet if you will stay under BMR for a prolonged period of time. I prefer and normally advise low carb diets for Rapid weight loss. But I have not read enough studies on the health Aspects regarding Maros on Starvation Diets for prolong periods of time to advise much more.
With that said, at the end of the day, caloric deficit is a deficit, and if you are giving your body less than BMR, it does not matter so much what you put into it imo, you will force it to start digging into fat stores as energy, or eventual muscle if you don't have enough fat anymore. But I still believe eating balanced then is healthier than eating only 1800cals a day worth of only say chocolate or only Meat, and getting in only one Macro in Carbs or protein. Thus I think running at 1800cals like you intent to, with a balanced approach is a better option than only a Low carb diet. But because your metabolic rate will slow down, and eventually start to or stop losing weight or lose to slow for your patience, you might have to mix it up in the end, start off balanced and later run low carb, as the low carb high fat diets is a little better for the hormone production to reduce down regulation. I would also cut meal sizes and eat 7 or up to 9 times a day, to keep your metabolism going more.

Before we discuss reverse dieting we have to understand the reason why we do this. When we use Starvation diets, our bodies realises there is a gap in the energy needed for MBR and the current intake. So what it will do is slow down almost all aspects of our bodies, our metabolism adapts and decrease the amount of calories needed, it becomes slower, even our organs start using less energy, the hart rate will slow down to use less energy to decrease the amount of Cals burn during the day performing normal tasks, and biggest issue is our hormone rate slows down, down regulating mainly T3, Test and Leptin, thus effectively reducing our BMR, but now with less hormones which often then adds to the problem of feeling kak while on a starvation diet. Also partly why I would say running a cycle of Test and/or SARMs is possibly not a bad idea, as you will at least keep your hormones better balanced even while you are on extremely low Calories.

When you approach your goal weight or look, is when reverse dieting comes in, to re-teach our bodies to use more calories again, increasing metabolic rate again so that we can ultimately eat more ;). Now the problem comes in if we don't do this and after we reach our goal weight, we go on binge eating sprees as we have cravings because of the deficiencies in our diet for the last however many months or weeks it was. What our bodies then do is instinctive, when we suddenly give it much more calories than what it was use to, it still now needs fewer to function as the starvation lowered your BMR. Now it sees all these extra Cals and grabs on to them, and stores them in the form of fat as it is scared you will starve it again tomorrow, then it can at least use this extra fat to burn as energy to make up the gap tomorrow. This is often why people that go on a quick fat loss starvation diet for a few weeks, lose weight, then go back to their old "normal diet" but then pick up the weight again, because now their bodies don't need the same amount of calories anymore to complete all the required bodily functions in order to live, and you are now overfeeding it.

So there is two ways of doing the reverse diet, slow or fast. Obviously the slow method is more effective as you limit the amount of fat the body stores when you start giving it a surplus of Cals again, but also takes more discipline. The Faster method also works fine for normal people like us that are not coming of 6 months or longer extend periods of dieting for a show, and then having cravings for Big Macs, McFlurry's and Pizza at the same time.
But in your case the middle approach I think would work best, start of faster, then slow it down. reason I say this is because of your stats. ATM quick calculations gives me your BMR is around 2140 and Maintenance cals is around 3200+ depending on daily activity, but at 82 kgs your BMR will be around 1812 and Maintenance 2718 (activity level only multiplied by 1,5), and you will run a diet at 1800 cals, leaving us with a deficit of around 1000cals. (My Body would hate me and kick my arse) but we are all different and as you said you have done it, and will go on feeling, you will find out soon enough if your body starts to say "enough of this" I need more.) Normally Reverse dieting would do a initial increase of around 15%( +-150 cals) in this case in the first week, and then go up 5% (42cals in this case)each week. This would mean in your case you would need another 20 weeks after your weight loss diet, this is too long, and thus I think a 25% initial increase (250Cals), then around 100 cals a week would be good, leaving you with another around 6-7 weeks to reach your Maintenance level again. 6-8 More weeks might sound long, but by then you have reached your goal, are most likely happy and should see this as an insurance policy to help maintain that body and look.

If you do decide to do a Low Carb diet later, and you go into the reverse diet after this, I would say change your diet then back to a normal year round sustainable diet with all three Macro's balanced, and increase Calories at the same split. So if you are then doing a split of say P40%, carbs 35% and Fats 25% and you weekly increase Cals by 100, Increase by 40cals Protein, 35Carbs and 25fat.

You would need to weigh yourself every morning, to keep track of what the calories is doing, if you keep losing weight, you increase a little faster, and if you see you start gaining then you increase less, and less until you get to the point where your weight stays the same, and then you know, OK, my Maintenance is exactly say 2700Cals. You can then even do fine tune reverse dieting, where you increase Cals by like 2% a week, which your body will not put into fat, but will learn to use to make up the surplus gap to burning ratio, and thus increasing your BMR and so also your maintenance, allowing you to eat more and stay at that weight, which in turn in future will mean you would not likely want to go on binge eating sprees as your body is fully satisfied and you would not have real hunger issues.

Like I have said, while dropping weight, I would personally decrease the amount of lifting you do, and increase cardio, and as you approach your goal weight, start to turn that around, increase lifting, and decrease cardio to the point where they are both what you would be happy with to sustain as soon as you start the reverse diet. So that when you reverse and try to find that specific caloric need for your body Fat set point, you already do the amount of lifting you would continue doing in future as well as the amount of cardio you would sustainably do year round, so to not increase or decrease your energy expenditure much as you approach that set point.

I hope this all makes sense and helps, tried to best explain I possibly could, even though Endomorph had already explained it all and you probably understand the principal already.

Every morning you have two choices : continue to sleep with your dreams, or get up and chase them......!!!
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18 Jun 2018 13:52 - 18 Jun 2018 13:58 #216354 by Rooi Bul 86
Replied by Rooi Bul 86 on topic Rooi Bul's new weightloss journey
Thanks guys for all the help and replies so far really appreciate it more than you know.

Razor, I think the slow way it is then as I would want my new weight and look to be easily maintanable. Your replies are very educational and helpfull thanks bro. I spoke to a friend that competes in IFBB Physique. He agrees with everything you are saying 100% he also offered to help and assist me with putting what you are saying into practise. He also suggested doing cardio only and go for a full on strict deplete for 6 weeks or until I feel like shit before starting any re feeds.

So going to start with 1hour cardio 4-5 nights a week. I am going to try and do a few fasted state sessions also. Mabe do like 3 nights 1hour sessions and 2 fasted state morning sessions all on separate days and continue on that schedule till I start approaching my goal weight.

Your thinking is like mine on these macros. If I stall and want to do some tweaking then atleast I can go Keto.

It is on you. It always has been...
Last edit: 18 Jun 2018 13:58 by Rooi Bul 86.

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