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TOPIC: bloods + trt

bloods + trt 08 Jun 2019 09:08 #219796

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ok, the doc I was waiting for to get back into the country turned out, he aint coming back....got an offer to stay in Ireland...

so went to another doc....was asked to stop everything i was doing and do bloods 6 weeks after.
so in a nutshell, prior to doing my bloods I had taken 1/2 ml susteplex and 1/2 ml test E.

barring the testosterone, according to doc, all my results were fine. however, i see my LDL is 3.2, and should be around 3. (cholesterol was 4.8) He also did say my red blood cells was a little high. RBC - 5.28, Haemoglobin - 16.1, haematocrit - 0.44

kidneys were fine, urea - 4.3, creatinine - 98, egfr - 85. this used to a worry (I think a few years ago egfr was 65), over the years this has bettered, not sure what I have been doing right, maybe the nephrosolid, (chamomile tea? pump used to say its good for lots), apple cider vinegar, black seed, raw honey, amongst others i have started taking since then....dropped creatine mostly, very, very rarely use any anti-inflam meds, used to use brufin and voltaren quite a lot before...

now, the problem, total TEST is 7.8, FSH - 3.1, LH - 1.4, prolactin 12.6

This is our family doc and has always been against any form of steroid use, so hearing the norm I did this to myself...blah blah...he says I need to stay off all test for 3 months more and then check levels, if still low, then he will recommend TRT for me...asked him about maybe trying a pct, etc, adamantly NO..lol
for now, i am just using Maca root and Saw palmetto in the hopes that it does help a little.

any thoughts....opinions...will be appreciated..
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bloods + trt 08 Jun 2019 10:42 #219797

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Hey.

Would a natural test booster help in your situation.
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bloods + trt 08 Jun 2019 11:24 #219798

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Hey Wayne.

Your LH looks pretty low. Similar to another thread on here, your system is probably still shutdown from your cycle and busy recovering. If it was me I would do a PCT to try recover, or at least run HCG. But if your Dr says no and you trust him then either go for a second opinion or follow his advice.

Your total test is low but it would be better to see free test, E2 and SHBG as a minimum. A thyroid panel would also be good, a lot of TRT symptoms actually stem from thyroid and iodine issues.

Unfortunately, trying to determine if you may need TRT while still suppressed from a cycle won’t be accurate. Either way it’s best to only test and decide when you’re running naturally and fully recovered.
My comments are not advice, medical or otherwise. I am not a medical practitioner. Always consult your Doctor before making decisions.
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bloods + trt 08 Jun 2019 18:24 #219802

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Mfezdro wrote:
Hey Wayne.

Your LH looks pretty low. Similar to another thread on here, your system is probably still shutdown from your cycle and busy recovering. If it was me I would do a PCT to try recover, or at least run HCG. But if your Dr says no and you trust him then either go for a second opinion or follow his advice.

Your total test is low but it would be better to see free test, E2 and SHBG as a minimum. A thyroid panel would also be good, a lot of TRT symptoms actually stem from thyroid and iodine issues.

Unfortunately, trying to determine if you may need TRT while still suppressed from a cycle won’t be accurate. Either way it’s best to only test and decide when you’re running naturally and fully recovered.

Thyroid was 1.52, doc said it was fine. This doc is actually my "second opinion" prior I was told to go onto trt. And was doing "my own" trt for a bit....
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bloods + trt 08 Jun 2019 21:46 #219803

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Do you want to to on TRT? Because if you have made that decision and don't want more kids then do what the Dr said and leave it 3 more weeks and you will have lowered enough test levels to get the seal of approval. Don't supplement anything to help your test bounce back. Or else, start with hCG and Nolva immediatly so within 3 to 4 weeks your levels start looking good. I'm not sure your angle and exactly what you want out of all of this?
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford
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bloods + trt 09 Jun 2019 10:14 #219804

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00pump wrote:
Do you want to to on TRT? Because if you have made that decision and don't want more kids then do what the Dr said and leave it 3 more weeks and you will have lowered enough test levels to get the seal of approval. Don't supplement anything to help your test bounce back. Or else, start with hCG and Nolva immediatly so within 3 to 4 weeks your levels start looking good. I'm not sure your angle and exactly what you want out of all of this?

Hey Pump, thanks for response. I would prefer not to be on trt. Quick history, about a year or 2 back I was pretty run down.(I had not been on any form of gear for at least a year) Saw a "sports doctor" (he was very much into bodybuilding) he suggested test could be low. Did bloods test was low. However the doses he was telling me to use for trt didn't sit well with me as it was higher then some cycles I had done...so decided to check an endo as a second opinion. There basically told to use nebido and wellbuterin. So figured I was stuffed, may as well do a good cycle before going onto trt so I did some test n tren for 8 weeks followed by just test for 4 more weeks then "cruised" on trt doses for about 3 months or so but for some reason, I think my body didn't like test E after cos I was getting test flu for 2 days after every pin. I also knew I was way overdue to get my bloodwork done. Procrastinated waiting for a trusted doc to get back whom I can be totally honest with and not get any "stick"

Obviously didn't pan out, and now I am where I am with my original post on here.

If possible, I would like to get myself up and running however, I may have screwed my system too much for that to be possible. I did tell my current doc about trying a pct and it was a no. He the type that would say do exactly as he says or he can't help....not pretty keen to listen to what I think I could do with regards to "drugs" of this nature. He is a hard ass like that, but he has been our family doc for past 6 years and given that a paediatrician had missed stuff with my kids and he picked it up...I would say he is a pretty good doc..and if I am going to sort myself thru a doctor's supervision, he is likely my best bet. I don't know any other around me...or the alternative is I do this on my own...but bloodwork still has to go to a doc, won't be released to me.
Last Edit: 09 Jun 2019 10:18 by Wayne.
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bloods + trt 09 Jun 2019 12:34 #219805

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I can't really answer that question on your behalf. You would need to either make the choice to do things the way the Dr recommends or middle in the mix but that makes things difficult for them. What I have seen with guys I know who use GPs for TRT land up running into problems that lots of them don't know how best to treat. Some of those was elevated estrogen levels and refused to recommend the use of an AI as they did not have experience in dosing etc. And there was other stories too with finding it difficult to provide balanced test levels while maintaining a sense of well being and a positive quality of life.

My endo is a firm believer in a good couple months of some or other PCT protocol to really give the body a fair chance at recovery if I opted to not go the TRT route.

Your Dr might be jacked and know his stuff but an endo is dealing with this every single day. They know exactly how to deal with different scenarios that come with all of this. And that might be as simple as recommended to donate blood this time around but decide that you don't for 5 months thereafter due to ferritin levels being on the lower side.

So either go all in but be prepared to possibly have some tough times and maybe not get a holistic look at all the elements together. Or do a vigorous PCT where you start with some hCG for a few weeks and then run Nolva for 2 to 3 months. If you feel that you can't or you going to want to cycle again in few months then it really isn't worth going to all that effort to only shut yourself down again.

A GP also doesn't like to push boundaries and in all fairness that is a good thing, they play in a safe dose which is not necessarily what your body might need.

During these 3 months you know you are going to need to PCT or else you going to lose your mind, get depro, not train, have lack of energy, brain fog, no sex drive, bla bla bla... So either help the process and PCT hard for 2 or so months and then by the 3rd month do the bloods he wants and you will then know if you have recovered by bloodwork. If you have great.. If you still shut down then you have given it your best shot and let him handle things going forward. The only time you going to recover on your own is when you young and your hormones can bounce back on their own.

This is all your choice ;)

PS you need to go and donate blood.
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford
Last Edit: 09 Jun 2019 12:44 by 00pump.
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bloods + trt 09 Jun 2019 17:50 #219806

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Thank you, I get what you saying...and truthfully, I don't honestly know if I can really stay away from doing another cycle down the line come to think of it...that actually didn't even cross my mind until u mentioned..guess I really need to sit n think about it.
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bloods + trt 10 Jun 2019 12:01 #219807

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In my opinion you first need to establish what your natural system is doing and if you need TRT or not. Do what is advised above then test and see where you are. If you don't need TRT then you can choose to cycle as you usually do and recover with PCT to your normal state.
If you do need TRT then run on TRT and choose to blast once or twice a year as you usually would. The important thing is where are you at when not cycling. Establish that 100% first then make your decisions from that baseline.

Good luck.
My comments are not advice, medical or otherwise. I am not a medical practitioner. Always consult your Doctor before making decisions.
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bloods + trt 10 Jun 2019 12:57 #219808

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You've done many cycles and done a fair amount of steroids. Your testosterone is pretty much where it would be expected to be after only 6 weeks off with no PCT.

The longer we do steroids, the longer it takes to recover. But it does a suggest thst you can't recover.

This doc understandably doesn't want you taking anything which which give your next blood tests a false indication of the state of your HPTA.

But you could do more harm than good by waiting it out. If you don't plan on doing TRT it is essential that you get reliable test results. Do the PCT, but wait 8 weeks before you do bloods. That is fine. A month after PCT will not be 100% reliable.
Last Edit: 10 Jun 2019 13:03 by Muscleaddict.
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bloods + trt 25 Jul 2020 11:46 #223020

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Hi guys. Did some blood work on Thursday. Doc called me with results now. Everything is fine, kidney, liver, cholesterol. My BP was high when I went to doc 165/119. Need to monitor there, but been pretty stressed as late as with some many others in SA right now.
With regards to my testosterone, it was 7.8 then, now it's 9.5. doc says that's fine. Just wanted to get you guys thoughts? 9.5 for a 39yr old, is it good enough? I see the range is 8-12 ...
Last Edit: 25 Jul 2020 11:55 by Wayne.
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bloods + trt 25 Jul 2020 12:01 #223021

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Wayne wrote:
Hi guys. Did some blood work on Thursday. Doc called me with results now. Everything is fine, kidney, liver, cholesterol. My BP was high when I went to doc 165/119. Need to monitor there, but been pretty stressed as late as with some many others in SA right now.
With regards to my testosterone, it was 7.8 then, now it's 9.5. doc says that's fine. Just wanted to get you guys thoughts? 9.5 for a 39yr old, is it good enough? I see the range is 8-12 ...

Your test is low.

Brother that bottom number on YOUR BP can never go there. When i was having a heart attack would it ever play in that space. Start with another blood pressure med or your next blood result won't look so good.
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford
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bloods + trt 25 Jul 2020 12:38 #223022

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I agree with 00pump. A lot of new research is indicating that a diastolic BP of more than 90 mmHg increase the risk from all causes mortality massively. Although ensuring your systolic is within range is ideal, the older your are the less elastic your arteries are and thus the higher your systolic is. The head of my unit is a pioneer in refining guidelines for hypertension and has found that the diastolic BP is more closely correlated to risk of stroke and adverse cardiovascular events. In addition, hypertensive retinopathy is inevitable at diastolic pressures above 90 mmHg, if I was your doctor I would have performed opthalmoscopy. I suggest you control this first before anything.
Considering you are less than 50 years of age, you're most likely going to be started on Pharmapress (Enalapril) first and then a low dose thiazide might be added for augmentation. Side effects from this protocol are minimal.
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bloods + trt 25 Jul 2020 15:02 #223023

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Thanks for the replies guys. I just checked my BP now, 148/90. The day I went to doc, I had not taken my meds. Am still using zartan 50mg.

As for my testosterone, where should I be to be ok? And currently, is it low enough to warrant trt?
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bloods + trt 25 Jul 2020 15:53 #223024

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Hey Wayne

I also had high blood pressure and wanted TRT for my low test levels. I first fixed my blood pressure before starting TRT as this is what was advised for me. I did this because for me personally yes TRT was necessary but I also wanted to start blasting and cruising. And knowing me I would have taken the Test shots way too far too quick and hoped my BP sorted itself. I’m glad I fixed it and recommend for health that you do the same before adding test. My BP was 140 over 95 and I’m down to an average now of 129 over 82 and on TRT and feeling great. My blood pressure issues were mainly due to Alcohol (thanks Cyril for fixing this for me) and smoking and not enough cardio. Sorted those three things and now much better.

Let’s see what Les, pump and Oupa think about jumping into TRT while BP is not under control
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bloods + trt 25 Jul 2020 16:28 #223025

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Wayne wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys. I just checked my BP now, 148/90. The day I went to doc, I had not taken my meds. Am still using zartan 50mg.

As for my testosterone, where should I be to be ok? And currently, is it low enough to warrant trt?

If you being treated with zartan 50, then your next hop would he aprovel 150.. That should do the trick, if it doesn't your Dr can always change it to co-aprovel 150 which has a loop diuretic in it. From there you can even go up to co-aprovel 300, and further from there you can throw in amloc and and and. The zartan 50mg is not strong enough for you, even 148/90 is to high, slowly you are putting strain on your body and once it strikes its next to impossible to fix.

There wasn't a zartan 100mg when I went down this path but it seems there is one now so that might be the next step.

Within a few days on the aprovel your BP should settle nicely. I personally prefer using the co-aprovel while on gear purely because of the extra water weight, but I wouldn't recommend it until you know how you respond to the aprovel as your BP might drop to low with the added diuretic, but I'm guessing that's where you will land up, which isn't a problem its just the journey.
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford
Last Edit: 25 Jul 2020 16:35 by 00pump.
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bloods + trt 25 Jul 2020 19:02 #223026

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I'm surprised that your doc did not put you on more appropriate medication for your hypertension. 50mg Losartan for BP 165/119 is a bandaid for an axe wound. I was just put back on BP meds a few weeks ago at 135/90. Not that high but I'm taking no chances. I would listen to pump's advice on this and go back to the doc on Monday.

165/119 is borderline stage 3 hypertension. I read a study from a US Heart Association where data on more than 10,000 men was analysed with a 25 year follow up, and they concluded that men with stage 2 hypertension had an 8 shorter life expectancy, and stage 3 hypertension had a 12 year shorter life expectancy than someone with normal BP. Scary shit not be taken lightly.
Last Edit: 26 Jul 2020 11:40 by Muscleaddict.
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bloods + trt 03 Aug 2020 12:32 #223216

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Sjoe, I feel for you. I have been on this journey for over 6 years now, going onto 7 years. And I had never used steroids before.

In November 2013, I ended up in hospital, from chronic fatique. Luckily I was able to see an Endo immediately (they are book full, months in advance here).

My Test came back at 6.3

They did not even give the the choice (I mean, ask me if I want to be on TRT). But I am not complaining, I could not get up in the mornings anymore. I was totally burnt out.

The Urologist put me on Nebido immediately. And there my journey, and my trouble started. I have this bad habit of, "believing in people / doctors". The Uro could never get my levels stable.
I went from 12 week injections, to 8, to 7, to 6 weeks. Then back to 9 weeks. And that, overall, is a very long time to try and get well, to feel horribly sick.

I also started getting migraines, but I cannot prove or disprove that it was the Nebido.


I have since been to 3 more doctors, but I am still struggling to get my levels up. It is a constant fight between me and the doctors.


Anyway. During this journey, I also had tremendous stress, with my mom getting Alzheimers, me crashing and almost losing my job.
One day I just felt horrible, pressure in my head, ears ringing more than usual, dizzy, etc. So I went to my GP. And that day my blood pressure was 200/125.

I have now been on Coveram 10mg, for a while now, and we have my blood pressure under control.


And again, all of this was without ever using steroids. Right now, I am doing TRT myself. I started during lockdown, on 13 June. And keeping a diary.

Just for once, I want to be in control, and not have a doctor drop my levels again.


It takes time, and trial and error.

I do hope you get better soon. Keep us updated. I would love to hear and learn more. We learn a lot from each other. I have learnt so much from you guys already.
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