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TOPIC: Low Test

Low Test 17 Apr 2020 08:29 #221975

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Hey guys,

Doctor called this morning after a bloodtest yesterday, he says my testosterone is low at 6, didn't give much more, I asked for a reference and he said it should be somewhere around 12. Don't have the tests so it doesnt really help me. Those numbers have no values or anything, seemed a bit irritated when he asked about steroid use and I said yes. Also, this measurement was made at 4:30 in the afternoon which apparently can play a roll.

Been off since 7th Dec, PCT ran like protocol 2.

Any suggestions what I should do? He wasn't very helpful, just said test again in 3 months and do not use more.

I know it's nothing much to go on here but a little stressed now to say the least.
Last Edit: 17 Apr 2020 08:48 by Gym_Junkie.
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Low Test 17 Apr 2020 08:38 #221976

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Redo your Pct. Remember your pct that is on the Page is generally a minimum recommendation. if you haven't recovered enough your pct has been ineffective so re do it.

add in a few other things. ZMA before bed is number 1. Ashwagandha 600mg in the morning is number 2 and then Boron at 10mg daily is number 3.

Aswhwaghanda and ZMA have been known to increase test levels so may aid in the recovery and then boron has been known to reduce SHBG. Also look at your diet in this time. Fats should be at a decent level at around 30% of your calories intake, as fats are needed for healthy hormone levels. Keep carbs to starchy carbs,vegetables and fruits and then make sure you are getting in 2-2.5g of protein per kg of LBM.
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Low Test 17 Apr 2020 09:12 #221977

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Supplement grocery list set. Diet was solid before lockdown, but I smacked myself over the head on back on it.

I've heard this advice about running a PCT again before? Would I run it identically to PCT protocol 2?

I shall be going back for a test in 2 or 3 months so I want to make the most of this time.
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Low Test 17 Apr 2020 09:39 #221978

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as I have said previously a 28-day pct is the minimum requirement, i have had some clients do 2 pcts in a row and gotten back after the first 1 was not enough, did you wait the required amount of time after your last jab to start your pct? 3x the half life of the longest ester?
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Low Test 17 Apr 2020 09:44 #221979

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also, you say your diet is on point? give us a break down of that. would like to take a squizz at it.
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Low Test 17 Apr 2020 09:47 #221980

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A lot of bodybuilders I know run ineffective PCTs. There's the standard model of waiting two weeks after the end of a long ester (testosterone enanthate) cycle to start PCT. You should actually wait for 5 half-lives for the drug to clear. Only after 5 half lives does the body make an attempt to restart it's natural production. At 2 weeks after running a long ester drug, there is still enough of the exogenous hormone to be suppressive on the HPTA and thus starting a PCT at this time is pointless. You want to start a PCT as soon as your own body starts trying to recover. If you are using 19-nor derivatives or deca this is far more suppressive for much longer. In one study after a shot of nandrolone it took the body 20 weeks to start recovering. Therefore, starting a PCT at 2 weeks would be a waste and not help with recovery.

Sorry for the random information I am just trying to get rid of this mentality that you start PCT at 'said time'. The start of your PCT should be tailored to the compounds you are using. If you are using tren or deca you are more likely to be suppressed for much longer and thus your PCT should account for that.

In your case, I'd start a PCT again using Michael Scally's Power PCT (excluding the HCG).

(This is why you see a lot of individuals having to run two PCTs. The first was ineffective because it was started too soon. Understand the pharmacology of the drug you are using and you'll be good).
Last Edit: 17 Apr 2020 09:49 by LesDoctor.
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Low Test 17 Apr 2020 10:23 #221981

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LesDoctor wrote:
A lot of bodybuilders I know run ineffective PCTs. There's the standard model of waiting two weeks after the end of a long ester (testosterone enanthate) cycle to start PCT. You should actually wait for 5 half-lives for the drug to clear. Only after 5 half lives does the body make an attempt to restart it's natural production. At 2 weeks after running a long ester drug, there is still enough of the exogenous hormone to be suppressive on the HPTA and thus starting a PCT at this time is pointless. You want to start a PCT as soon as your own body starts trying to recover. If you are using 19-nor derivatives or deca this is far more suppressive for much longer. In one study after a shot of nandrolone it took the body 20 weeks to start recovering. Therefore, starting a PCT at 2 weeks would be a waste and not help with recovery.

Sorry for the random information I am just trying to get rid of this mentality that you start PCT at 'said time'. The start of your PCT should be tailored to the compounds you are using. If you are using tren or deca you are more likely to be suppressed for much longer and thus your PCT should account for that.

In your case, I'd start a PCT again using Michael Scally's Power PCT (excluding the HCG).

(This is why you see a lot of individuals having to run two PCTs. The first was ineffective because it was started too soon. Understand the pharmacology of the drug you are using and you'll be good).

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/articles/9-post-cycle-therapy
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Low Test 17 Apr 2020 10:55 #221983

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Empire wrote:
as I have said previously a 28-day pct is the minimum requirement, i have had some clients do 2 pcts in a row and gotten back after the first 1 was not enough, did you wait the required amount of time after your last jab to start your pct? 3x the half life of the longest ester?

Interesting, It's my 5th cycle and I've never had this problem before, bounced back relatively quickly and never noticed anything in my bloods, I always follow the info on this site, I was going to take this entire year off any sort of gear anyway.

I stopped my Test prop 2 weeks out from show day, was running EQ but stopped that about 4 or 5 weeks before show since it takes a while to clear, I can't remember exactly (whole cyle was 14 weeks, ran test E for 8, EQ for 9 or 10, switched to prop at week 9 so it would clear quickly afterwards). It is possible that even though I gave it around 4 weeks, EQ could still be lingering in my system when I started PCT. Started Clomid the Monday after, followed protocol 2.

So if I follow this advice, then should I start up with Clomid again now and follow as per protocol 2? I have Nolva and Clomid on hand always but HCG is going to be tough to find right now during lockdown so I may have to wait a bit longer.

Diet wise:

Before lockdown I was intermittent fasting, to control weight gain initially post-show but kind of enjoyed it so carried on.

Meal 1 12am: usually 3 chicken breasts/or Lean mince with beans, a cup of veg and a cup of fruit (Mango usually) with half a cup non fat yogurt. Either 2 peices of toast or some other carb source such as a potato or pasta of equivalents and half an avo. Usually equally to around 800 - 1000kcal.

Meal 2: 60g Rice Cream, two scoops of whey, tsp penaut butter, half a cup of blue berries and 1 banana.

Meal 3: Bowl of rice krispies (post workout) with usually skim milk or whey protein milk.

Meal 4 8pm: 300g sirlion steak with a carb (potato or rice) and veg. Some nights this is changed to 2 chicken breasts and I try every now and then to eat some fish instead but I should more often.

Managed my weight at exactly 86kg till lockdown, strength was on its way up. My plan was to introduce a breakfast of 6 eggs (4 whole, 2 white) half an avo and toast and slowly increase calories over the next three months to increase my weight up again. Low test is not helping my motivation though
Last Edit: 17 Apr 2020 11:07 by Gym_Junkie.
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Low Test 18 Apr 2020 13:57 #221984

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Hi, Gym Junkie.

I think Empire will be able to assist you if you can give him a more accurate detail of uour diet and nutrition. Like give him your Calories and macros that you hit daily. Like in the breakdown you gave, give the Calories and the Macros per meal and the daily total if you eat a different meal occaisionally give the macros and calories of that meal. Also you will need more accurate measurements than a bowl or a cup or half a cup. We prefer measures amounts on a kitchen scale.

I am not bashing you or hating on you I just know the man can help. I was in a rut. Stalled and down on Strength and really negative as I am usually very strong. He looked over my diet and training and with a few tweaks I am progressing within a week
It is on you. It always has been...
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Low Test 19 Apr 2020 17:38 #221989

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Rooi Bul 86 wrote:
Hi, Gym Junkie.

I think Empire will be able to assist you if you can give him a more accurate detail of uour diet and nutrition. Like give him your Calories and macros that you hit daily. Like in the breakdown you gave, give the Calories and the Macros per meal and the daily total if you eat a different meal occaisionally give the macros and calories of that meal. Also you will need more accurate measurements than a bowl or a cup or half a cup. We prefer measures amounts on a kitchen scale.

I am not bashing you or hating on you I just know the man can help. I was in a rut. Stalled and down on Strength and really negative as I am usually very strong. He looked over my diet and training and with a few tweaks I am progressing within a week

Howsit guys, thought I would just update everybody.

The diet I posted here was just off the top of my head on my phone, I actually have measured amounts which i measure out for all my meals, just gave ball park figures, apologize for that.

I managed to actually track Empire down on social media, he is a nice helpful guy from our chat and I may be taking him on as a coach from after the lockdown for a structured bulking plan.

As for the Testosterone issue, Empire suggested that I run a PCT again. I started protocol 2 straight away. I have also stated supplementation of ZMA at night and DAA in the morning, and a multi vitamin. I have ordered Anoblic beast from Tnt, and I still want to get Ashwagandha. I've never been a fan of over the counter testosterone boosters but hoping for the best.

I also managed to get hold of my blood results from lancet:

Only 3 markers were tested:
Testosterone (Total): 5.7 nmol/L (8.0 - 30.0)
SHBG: 19.9 nmol/L (18.3 - 54.1)
Free Testosterone: 139 pmol/L ( 180 - 739)
Last Edit: 19 Apr 2020 17:39 by Gym_Junkie.
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Low Test 19 Apr 2020 21:13 #221992

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Great readings
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford
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Low Test 24 May 2020 19:39 #222355

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Little update:

Completed PCT yesterday:

Week 1: Clomid @ 100mg
Week 2: Clomid @ 50mg & Nolva @ 20mg
Week 3-5: Nolva @ 20mg

Supporting Supplements:
Men's Care Multi Vitamin morning
Ashwagandha @ 500mg morning
Tnt Anabolic Beast morning
ZMA serving night

Following the supplements for another month and then I will get a follow up blood test which I am probably going to do myself via a lab.

Another side note: Single during lockdown means no intimacy but the other night I had a chance, tools were working at first but completely stopped half-way. Really affected me and raised my stress through the roof and I don't know if it's the low test or performance anxiety or a mixture of things. I also read it could be high e2, which my previous blood test did not include, hence why I want to get it myself.

Kind of negative about everything right now though, hoping that some more time helps.
Last Edit: 24 May 2020 19:43 by Gym_Junkie.
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Low Test 24 May 2020 20:01 #222356

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Gym_Junkie wrote:
Little update:

Completed PCT yesterday:

Week 1: Clomid @ 100mg
Week 2: Clomid @ 50mg & Nolva @ 20mg
Week 3-5: Nolva @ 20mg

Supporting Supplements:
Men's Care Multi Vitamin morning
Ashwagandha @ 500mg morning
Tnt Anabolic Beast morning
ZMA serving night

Following the supplements for another month and then I will get a follow up blood test which I am probably going to do myself via a lab.

Another side note: Single during lockdown means no intimacy but the other night I had a chance, tools were working at first but completely stopped half-way. Really affected me and raised my stress through the roof and I don't know if it's the low test or performance anxiety or a mixture of things. I also read it could be high e2, which my previous blood test did not include, hence why I want to get it myself.

Kind of negative about everything right now though, hoping that some more time helps.

That is why my endo does not use SERMs as a solution for recovery anymore. He said its a dated approach and very difficult to monitor. With using an AI we only need to worry about where e2 is sitting to know its working. Clomid destroys my sex drive..
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford
Last Edit: 24 May 2020 20:02 by 00pump.
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Low Test 24 May 2020 21:03 #222357

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Well it's been about 3 weeks since I used Clomid.

So in a few weeks, I should have a better idea of what's issue.
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Low Test 06 Jul 2020 11:35 #222831

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3 Month update.

Keep in mind this after 2 PCT's and a 2 month Testosterone boosting supplements. 6 months since the last injection.

Bloodtest results:

Testosterone(Total): 11.7 nmol/L (8.0 - 30.0)
SHBG: 18.3 nmol/L (18.3 - 54.1)
Free Testosterone: 313 pmol/L (180 - 739)

The doctor says my levels are still on the low end but says it needs more time. He also seems happy that the free test has doubled in 3 months, which he said is a good indication.

I feel better and more stable emotionally. We shall test in 3 months from now to see where the levels are at again.

Kind of accepting that I will have to probably go on TRT when I am in my 30s a few years from now.
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Low Test 06 Jul 2020 11:48 #222832

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Gym_Junkie wrote:
3 Month update.

Keep in mind this after 2 PCT's and a 2 month Testosterone boosting supplements. 6 months since the last injection.

Bloodtest results:

Testosterone(Total): 11.7 nmol/L (8.0 - 30.0)
SHBG: 18.3 nmol/L (18.3 - 54.1)
Free Testosterone: 313 pmol/L (180 - 739)

The doctor says my levels are still on the low end but says it needs more time. He also seems happy that the free test has doubled in 3 months, which he said is a good indication.

I feel better and more stable emotionally. We shall test in 3 months from now to see where the levels are at again.

Kind of accepting that I will have to probably go on TRT when I am in my 30s a few years from now.

What are you using to increase it now?
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford
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Low Test 06 Jul 2020 12:04 #222833

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00pump wrote:

What are you using to increase it now?

I went off all supplements a month ago to give my body a break, currently not taking anything but the following medication daily:

10mg brintellix (anti-depresant)
5mg Cialis (Doctor prescribed)
20mg Urbanol (If needed)
Multi-vitamin

I don't know if any of that would affect the recovery process.

Just eating a good amount of healthy fat, red meats, salmon, etc.

I contacted Empire and we spoke about a diet plan a while ago but my personal life was not going so well so I decided to wait till I could have access to a gym again and get some actual motivation. Trying to workout at home but not fun.
Last Edit: 06 Jul 2020 12:06 by Gym_Junkie.
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Low Test 06 Jul 2020 12:06 #222835

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Gym_Junkie wrote:
00pump wrote:

What are you using to increase it now?

I went off all supplements a month ago to give my body a break, currently not taking anything but the following medication daily:

10mg brintellix (anti-depresant)
5mg Cialis (Doctor prescribed)
20mg Urbanol (If needed)
Multi-vitamin

I don't know if any of that would affect the recovery process.

Just eating a good amount of healthy fat, red meats, salmon, etc.

I contacted Empire and we spoke about a diet plan but I decided to wait till I could have access to a gym again since my motivation zero.

Bud when my endo is recovering me its a 3 to 6 month process of being medicated. What is your e2 levels on?
"Whether You Think You Can or Can't, You're Right"--Henry Ford
Last Edit: 06 Jul 2020 12:06 by 00pump.
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Low Test 10 Jul 2020 13:03 #222915

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I checked the bloods again and it looks like e2 wasn't tested.

This all just through my GP, at the moment, it seems like everything is going back to normal over time, my GP said it wasn't necessary just yet to see a specialist.

I'm feeling good though, miles better than I did 3 months ago.
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