Advice on Gonal F (follitropin alfa) and Test E

Hi Everyone,

I have been reading this forum for the last two years and it has been an amazing source of real and solid information which I would like to thank each one of you for sharing your knowledge and experiences!

I decided to post for the first time today to ask for some honest advice as I have learnt a few lessons in the past on cycles I have tried based on different threads of this forum and would like to get advice on what actually would work for me specifically.

Here goes:

Stats:

28 Years old
181 CM
Currently 79.5kg

1RM Max:
Squat : 170KG
Deadlift: 220kg
Bench: 130kg

Given this I want to give a breakdown of my past recent experiences. I started running cycles on and off 3 years ago and in that period went from 75kg to an eventual 89kg until about October last year with a drop down to 82-83kg after every cycle once PCT was over.

My last cycle ended in December 2019 where I ran test Cyp 250mg at 3ml p/w for 10 weeks with a Tbol kicker till week 3 and Nolvadex 20mg ED as PCT for 25 days followed by Proviron 25mg ED after my waiting period 20 days.

2 months before this cycle I was also on test Cyp at a higher dosage of 4ml with same PCT and and dianobol kicker and this initial cycle is what got me to the 88-89kg mark at around 12% body fat but went back down to 82 after PCT hence then going on the 10 week cycle till December.

Now as I wanted my levels to get back to reality and feel my balls again I went of any form of anabolics completely and I slowly started loosing weight and hovered on 85 for a a month or so then went back down to my normal 82kg and with the current circumstances being in lockdown for 2 months have gone down to 79.5kg which the last time I was under 80kg was in 2017.

The reason I give this breakdown is because 1 - I know I did not do my PCT properly and 2 - I didn't make use of hormones such as HCG to help reduce the loss of gains and my test levels once off cycle.

In essence in the last 6 months I have lost 9kg even though my diet was still in a caloric surplus and training carried on as hard as I can push it.

I do have a fast metabolism which explains the above as well. I am now in Dubai as I moved from SA recently and have managed to get myself some gear and after reading more on this forum and my own research I found that an approach I should perhaps take is a lower dosage of test. So I got my hands on some Test E that I want to run on a 10 week cycle as well as HCG 5000 UI x 2, Nolvadex and proviron. The guy I got these from also gave me GONAL F (follitropin alfa) as a hormone to help surpress as much estrogen as possible which I have searched left and centre in the forum and can not get info on so hence my request.

The cycle is -

- Test E 250mg p/w 0.5 ml 84 hour apart ( I want to know if 1ml in a single pin will be sufficient per week too)
- HCG 250UI twice per week for 10 weeks with the test E
- Proviron 25mg ED last 4 weeks of my cycle as I have been doing research on the benefits of proviron to also make the muscle hard when done towards end of cycle and not in PCT
- HCG 250 UI twice per week for PCT together with Nolvadex ED

Then GONAL F once per week during cycle that was suggested to me.

No kicker at this stage as I want to try do it as clean as possible and keep my test levels high (besides the fact that in Dubai even something like Dbol is sold for about R1600 which is a joke) so that I can pick up weight and get back to the 85-88kg mark and this time actually keep most of it or as much as possible.

I apologise for the long post but I really don't want to fuck up my body before starting this and just need some good advice on this cycle and options to increase my weight and size to keep most of it.

Thank you for reading.
M

Moakus71 wrote: Hi Everyone,

I have been reading this forum for the last two years and it has been an amazing source of real and solid information which I would like to thank each one of you for sharing your knowledge and experiences!

I decided to post for the first time today to ask for some honest advice as I have learnt a few lessons in the past on cycles I have tried based on different threads of this forum and would like to get advice on what actually would work for me specifically.

Here goes:

Stats:

28 Years old
181 CM
Currently 79.5kg

1RM Max:
Squat : 170KG
Deadlift: 220kg
Bench: 130kg

Given this I want to give a breakdown of my past recent experiences. I started running cycles on and off 3 years ago and in that period went from 75kg to an eventual 89kg until about October last year with a drop down to 82-83kg after every cycle once PCT was over.

My last cycle ended in December 2019 where I ran test Cyp 250mg at 3ml p/w for 10 weeks with a Tbol kicker till week 3 and Nolvadex 20mg ED as PCT for 25 days followed by Proviron 25mg ED after my waiting period 20 days.

your waiting period for pct is 3x the longest half life, so you ran cyp so it would 3x 12 day so 36 days minimum, before starting pct. you should have run the proviron and some oral such as anavar in that 36 days,whilst waiting for the exogenous hormone levels to diminish from the long esters.

your pct was not sufficient being only tamoxifen for 20 days. you should have run a bit of clomid on its own for a week at 50mg daily, then i like to run clomid at 25mg EOD with 20mg of tamoxifen for 30days MINIMUM.

2 months before this cycle I was also on test Cyp at a higher dosage of 4ml with same PCT and and dianobol kicker and this initial cycle is what got me to the 88-89kg mark at around 12% body fat but went back down to 82 after PCT hence then going on the 10 week cycle till December.

Now as I wanted my levels to get back to reality and feel my balls again I went of any form of anabolics completely and I slowly started loosing weight and hovered on 85 for a a month or so then went back down to my normal 82kg and with the current circumstances being in lockdown for 2 months have gone down to 79.5kg which the last time I was under 80kg was in 2017.

we are always going to loose weight after a cycle, it is usually from a loss of water retention as well as a decrease in blood mass, as steroids build up red blood cell count. so in this time you have to optimise recovery, even lower training volume by about 20%, take a rest day every 2 days or so, and eat a bit more food.

The areason I give this breakdown is because 1 - I know I did not do my PCT properly and 2 - I didn't make use of hormones such as HCG to help reduce the loss of gains and my test levels once off cycle.

In essence in the last 6 months I have lost 9kg even though my diet was still in a caloric surplus and training carried on as hard as I can push it.

Please show us your diet so we can see the caloric surplus.

I do have a fast metabolism which explains the above as well. I am now in Dubai as I moved from SA recently and have managed to get myself some gear and after reading more on this forum and my own research I found that an approach I should perhaps take is a lower dosage of test. So I got my hands on some Test E that I want to run on a 10 week cycle as well as HCG 5000 UI x 2, Nolvadex and proviron. The guy I got these from also gave me GONAL F (follitropin alfa) as a hormone to help surpress as much estrogen as possible which I have searched left and centre in the forum and can not get info on so hence my request.

i am still unsure why everyone wants to kill estrogen DEAD on a cycle. estrogen is needed, it keeps your blood lipids healthy, it keeps your joints lubed up and it also keeps your sex drive going. if you are worried about estrogen on cycle add some masteron into the cycle OR USE LESS TEST and use something like Equipoise.

The cycle is -

- Test E 250mg p/w 0.5 ml 84 hour apart ( I want to know if 1ml in a single pin will be sufficient per week too)
- HCG 250UI twice per week for 10 weeks with the test E
- Proviron 25mg ED last 4 weeks of my cycle as I have been doing research on the benefits of proviron to also make the muscle hard when done towards end of cycle and not in PCT
- HCG 250 UI twice per week for PCT together with Nolvadex ED

using HCG on cycle is going to push your estrogen levels up aswell, HCG and estogen are the best of friends. i would only use the hcg during your pct and only use PHARMA HCG or OVITRELLE. i have never seen this Gonal F, so i wouldn't use it.

Then GONAL F once per week during cycle that was suggested to me.

No kicker at this stage as I want to try do it as clean as possible and keep my test levels high (besides the fact that in Dubai even something like Dbol is sold for about R1600 which is a joke) so that I can pick up weight and get back to the 85-88kg mark and this time actually keep most of it or as much as possible.

I apologise for the long post but I really don't want to fuck up my body before starting this and just need some good advice on this cycle and options to increase my weight and size to keep most of it.

Thank you for reading.
M

you are worried about keeping most of your gains but use a substance that is known to make you drop some size when off. if i was you, i would look at doing a low and slow cycle so there isn't this massive influx of hormones and then decrease when coming off. i can tell you now, that you would get better results of taking 250mg test over 20 weeks than 500mg over 10 weeks. Also at 250mg total a week you shouldn't experience crazy estrogen-based sides. if you do, then you need to look at running lower test and another anabolic. like 125mg test and 250mg equi a week.

Also, make sure your recovery supplements are in place, Ashwagandha, ZMA, Creatine, Melatonin as well, and mucana puriens if you can get it.

SLEEP and FOOD are the 2 most anabolic things in the world if you don't have enough of either one you are screwed.

Also put up your training plan, i want to see what sort of volume and training you are doing. when i see 1RM stats, i always wonder if people are training in that strength range of 1 to 5 or if they get to the hypertrophy levels of 6-15 reps.

Gonal F is used to send FSH pulses. I can understand its use in PCT or possibly if you wanting to try stay as fertile while on the cycle. However this is not used on a steroid cycle to supress eatrogen, that you should be using an AI.

Empire wrote:

Moakus71 wrote: Hi Everyone,

I have been reading this forum for the last two years and it has been an amazing source of real and solid information which I would like to thank each one of you for sharing your knowledge and experiences!

I decided to post for the first time today to ask for some honest advice as I have learnt a few lessons in the past on cycles I have tried based on different threads of this forum and would like to get advice on what actually would work for me specifically.

Here goes:

Stats:

28 Years old
181 CM
Currently 79.5kg

1RM Max:
Squat : 170KG
Deadlift: 220kg
Bench: 130kg

Given this I want to give a breakdown of my past recent experiences. I started running cycles on and off 3 years ago and in that period went from 75kg to an eventual 89kg until about October last year with a drop down to 82-83kg after every cycle once PCT was over.

My last cycle ended in December 2019 where I ran test Cyp 250mg at 3ml p/w for 10 weeks with a Tbol kicker till week 3 and Nolvadex 20mg ED as PCT for 25 days followed by Proviron 25mg ED after my waiting period 20 days.

your waiting period for pct is 3x the longest half life, so you ran cyp so it would 3x 12 day so 36 days minimum, before starting pct. you should have run the proviron and some oral such as anavar in that 36 days,whilst waiting for the exogenous hormone levels to diminish from the long esters.


Moakus - Empire thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me.

Based on your advice I should then consider only using proviron once I end my cycle for that bridge period till PCT? half life of Test E is 8-10 days so I will aim to start PCT 30 days after if this is correct?

your pct was not sufficient being only tamoxifen for 20 days. you should have run a bit of clomid on its own for a week at 50mg daily, then i like to run clomid at 25mg EOD with 20mg of tamoxifen for 30days MINIMUM.

Moakus- Well noted thank you Empire. I currently have 60 Tamoxifen tablets at 10mg each from AstraZeneca. This will cover 30 days. I will aim to see if I can get my hands on Clomid here.

2 months before this cycle I was also on test Cyp at a higher dosage of 4ml with same PCT and and dianobol kicker and this initial cycle is what got me to the 88-89kg mark at around 12% body fat but went back down to 82 after PCT hence then going on the 10 week cycle till December.

Now as I wanted my levels to get back to reality and feel my balls again I went of any form of anabolics completely and I slowly started loosing weight and hovered on 85 for a a month or so then went back down to my normal 82kg and with the current circumstances being in lockdown for 2 months have gone down to 79.5kg which the last time I was under 80kg was in 2017.

we are always going to loose weight after a cycle, it is usually from a loss of water retention as well as a decrease in blood mass, as steroids build up red blood cell count. so in this time you have to optimise recovery, even lower training volume by about 20%, take a rest day every 2 days or so, and eat a bit more food.

Moakus - When you mention lover volume you mean for example 4 sets x 10 reps to be 4 sets x 6?

The areason I give this breakdown is because 1 - I know I did not do my PCT properly and 2 - I didn't make use of hormones such as HCG to help reduce the loss of gains and my test levels once off cycle.

In essence in the last 6 months I have lost 9kg even though my diet was still in a caloric surplus and training carried on as hard as I can push it.

Please show us your diet so we can see the caloric surplus.

I will share my diet that I have gotten from a PT I recently had a consultation with where the idea is to have me pick up weight and staying as lean as possible. I had a high carb intake around 400-500g per day mainly from basmati rice and potatos and he then gave me a 5/2 split diet with the below caloric goals - (keep in mind that reason being also my abs are there but even though I am naturally lean they do not show its as if fat goes and sits in my stomach and chest mainly and my shoulders,legs and arms are lean. so this diet is high in fat.

5 x days per week -

Calories - 3000
Protein - 220g
Fat - 160g
Carbs - 100g

breakfast :

[

li]1tbsp olive oil
4 x eggs
1 x cup spinach
0.5 cup mushrooms
10 ml MCT oil
1300mg CLA ( 1 tablet high quality )
5ml Omega 3 fish liquid - 2840mg : EPA 1460mg -SHA - 1010mg - other Omega 3s - 370mg
1 tablet iron
1 tablet magnesium
1 table Vitamin D3

[/li]

Snack 1:

1 banana
2 slices protein break
30g Peanut butter

lunch:

220 g 5fat beef mince
about 5ml extra virgin olive oil in food for cooking
1 med - large sweet potato
5ml Omega 3 oil
10 ml MCT oil

snack 2:

1.5 scoops whey
1 tbsp Psyllium husk

Dinner :

usually 250 - 300g beef steak ( i try get grass fed as it is mote common here or meat with little to no hormones )
1 tbsp butter for cooking
1 cup Spinach
5ml Omega 3 oil
10 ml MCT oil
1 tablet CLA

Before bed:
1 scoop ON Casein protein

Then I switch up 2 days of the week to have lower fat and higher carb-

Calories - 3000
Protein - 220g
Fat - 115g
Carbs - 215 - 300g

Breakfast:

1.5 cups oats
2 x tbsp peanut butter
2 x boiled eggs
50g blueberries
5ml Omega 3 oil
10ml MCT oil
1 xCLA

snack 1:

1 x can tuna in water drainer
2 tbsp light mayo
2 x slice protein brea

Lunch:

220g 5% been mince
1 tsp olive oil for cooking
1.25 cup cooked basmati rice
10ml MCT oil
1 CLA

Snack 2:

1 tbsp psyllium husk
1 banan
1 scoop why

dinner:

200g salmon or steak
1 tbsp butter for cooking
1 baked potato
5ml omega 3 oil
10ml mct oil
1 tbs psyllium husk

before bed:

1 scoop ON Casein

Supplements -

Creatine after training
BCAA
C4 pre workout
5g dextrose post workout
half scoop whey post workout

I do have a fast metabolism which explains the above as well. I am now in Dubai as I moved from SA recently and have managed to get myself some gear and after reading more on this forum and my own research I found that an approach I should perhaps take is a lower dosage of test. So I got my hands on some Test E that I want to run on a 10 week cycle as well as HCG 5000 UI x 2, Nolvadex and proviron. The guy I got these from also gave me GONAL F (follitropin alfa) as a hormone to help surpress as much estrogen as possible which I have searched left and centre in the forum and can not get info on so hence my request.

i am still unsure why everyone wants to kill estrogen DEAD on a cycle. estrogen is needed, it keeps your blood lipids healthy, it keeps your joints lubed up and it also keeps your sex drive going. if you are worried about estrogen on cycle add some masteron into the cycle OR USE LESS TEST and use something like Equipoise.

Moakus - Noted, what is the dosage I shoule be looking for if I am going to do a 20 week low dosage course at 250mg per week?

The cycle is -

- Test E 250mg p/w 0.5 ml 84 hour apart ( I want to know if 1ml in a single pin will be sufficient per week too)
- HCG 250UI twice per week for 10 weeks with the test E
- Proviron 25mg ED last 4 weeks of my cycle as I have been doing research on the benefits of proviron to also make the muscle hard when done towards end of cycle and not in PCT
- HCG 250 UI twice per week for PCT together with Nolvadex ED

using HCG on cycle is going to push your estrogen levels up aswell, HCG and estogen are the best of friends. i would only use the hcg during your pct and only use PHARMA HCG or OVITRELLE. i have never seen this Gonal F, so i wouldn't use it.

Can you please advise me on dosage. I have 4 x 5000UI vials. So not during cycle? i have seen some guys mention in threads about the benefits of using during cycle.

Then GONAL F once per week during cycle that was suggested to me.

No kicker at this stage as I want to try do it as clean as possible and keep my test levels high (besides the fact that in Dubai even something like Dbol is sold for about R1600 which is a joke) so that I can pick up weight and get back to the 85-88kg mark and this time actually keep most of it or as much as possible.

I apologise for the long post but I really don't want to fuck up my body before starting this and just need some good advice on this cycle and options to increase my weight and size to keep most of it.

Thank you for reading.
M

you are worried about keeping most of your gains but use a substance that is known to make you drop some size when off. if i was you, i would look at doing a low and slow cycle so there isn't this massive influx of hormones and then decrease when coming off. i can tell you now, that you would get better results of taking 250mg test over 20 weeks than 500mg over 10 weeks. Also at 250mg total a week you shouldn't experience crazy estrogen-based sides. if you do, then you need to look at running lower test and another anabolic. like 125mg test and 250mg equi a week.

Also, make sure your recovery supplements are in place, Ashwagandha, ZMA, Creatine, Melatonin as well, and mucana puriens if you can get it.

SLEEP and FOOD are the 2 most anabolic things in the world if you don't have enough of either one you are screwed.

Moakus - thank you Empire!

So cycle will be :

Test E at 1ml p/w 250mg for 20 weeks
Equi at suggested dose ?
Proviron bridge at suggested dose?
HCG as bridge at suggested dose or during?
HCG for PCT at suggested dose with clomid at 50mg for 1 week then tamoxifen 20mg p/d for 30 days


Also put up your training plan, i want to see what sort of volume and training you are doing. when i see 1RM stats, i always wonder if people are training in that strength range of 1 to 5 or if they get to the hypertrophy levels of 6-15 reps.

Moakus -

Training plan as follows:

Monday -
quads:
4 x 8 lunges - usually start with 20kg and end around 30kg dumbells
4 x 8 squats - usually warm up set with 60kg then en around 120-130kg
4 x leg press - usually start around 140kg and end around 260kg
4 x sumo squats - 30kg dumbell

Biceps:
4 x 20 bicep curl - will start with 8 and end around 12-14kg at this rep range
4 x 20 incline facing bicep curl - ( as above )
4 x 20 concentrated curl - around 10-12kg
4 x 20 hammer curl - around 12 kg

Abs:
3 x 15 lying leg raise
3 x 15 cable crunch

10 min walk - cool down

Tuesday -
Chest:
2 x 20 push ups
4 x 8 incline dumbel press - usually start with around 26kg and end with 40kg at a slow rep range
Smith machine flat bench pyramid 20 - 8 - 60 to 80kg
incline cable flies pyramid - 20 - 8
Low cable scoop pyramid 20 - 8

Calves:
3 x 25 standing calves
3 x 25 seated calves

Wednesday:
40 min faster cardio

EveningL

Glutes:
4 x 10 smith machine bulgarian split squat
4 x 8 lying leg curl
4 x 8 sitting leg curl
4 x 8 straight leg deadlift

triceps:
4 x 20 Z bar lying tricep extention
4 x 20 triceps kickbacks
4 x 20 cable push down
3 x 10 dips
4 x 20 cable rope push down

Abs:
3 x 15 lying leg raise
3 x 15 cable crunch

Thursday -
Back:
3 x 10 wide grip pull ups
4 x 8 single arm dumbell row - around 35kg
4 x 8 bent over barbel row - around 50 - 60kg
4 x 8 lat pull down
4 x 8 cable pull down

Calves:
3 x 25 standing calves
3 x 25 seated calves

15 min eliptical

Friday -
Dealts:

4 x 10 W press
4 x 10 Seated lateral flies
4 x 8 standing push press - around 50 - 60kg
4 x 10 cross pull
4 x 8 upright row

Biceps:
4 x 20 bicep curl
4 x 20 incline bicep curl
4 x 20 concentration curls

Abs:
3 x 15 Lying leg raise
3 x 15 cable crunch

Sat:
40 min fasted cardio

Thank you 00pump so would you think it would be worth trying? the guy I got it from also said this was to help your hormones and stay fertile.

Do you have a need for it, are you wanting to try have a kid while on this cycle? If not, don't use it.. Do your standard PCT. There is very rare times that you might have to use it and I don't forsee this being that time.

No not aiming for a kid just yet it was more to compliment the HCG and help the hormones. But I take your advice on this thank you 00pump

Based on your advice I should then consider only using proviron once I end my cycle for that bridge period till PCT? half life of Test E is 8-10 days so I will aim to start PCT 30 days after if this is correct?

yes use proviron in the time from you last injection until the start of you pct. yes 30days is perfect.

Moakus - When you mention lover volume you mean for example 4 sets x 10 reps to be 4 sets x 6?

lower volume is number of sets and reps to be lower, but i will go into detail when i go through your training plan,as i can probably see where things are going wrong based on your training plan.

I will share my diet that I have gotten from a PT I recently had a consultation with where the idea is to have me pick up weight and staying as lean as possible. I had a high carb intake around 400-500g per day mainly from basmati rice and potatos and he then gave me a 5/2 split diet with the below caloric goals - (keep in mind that reason being also my abs are there but even though I am naturally lean they do not show its as if fat goes and sits in my stomach and chest mainly and my shoulders,legs and arms are lean. so this diet is high in fat.

5 x days per week -

Calories - 3000
Protein - 220g
Fat - 160g
Carbs - 100g

breakfast :

[
li]1tbsp olive oil
4 x eggs
1 x cup spinach
0.5 cup mushrooms
10 ml MCT oil
1300mg CLA ( 1 tablet high quality )
5ml Omega 3 fish liquid - 2840mg : EPA 1460mg -SHA - 1010mg - other Omega 3s - 370mg
1 tablet iron
1 tablet magnesium
1 table Vitamin D3
[/li]

Snack 1:
1 banana
2 slices protein break
30g Peanut butter

lunch:
220 g 5fat beef mince
about 5ml extra virgin olive oil in food for cooking
1 med - large sweet potato
5ml Omega 3 oil
10 ml MCT oil

snack 2:
1.5 scoops whey
1 tbsp Psyllium husk

Dinner :
usually 250 - 300g beef steak ( i try get grass fed as it is mote common here or meat with little to no hormones )
1 tbsp butter for cooking
1 cup Spinach
5ml Omega 3 oil
10 ml MCT oil
1 tablet CLA

Before bed:
1 scoop ON Casein protein

Then I switch up 2 days of the week to have lower fat and higher carb-

Calories - 3000
Protein - 220g
Fat - 115g
Carbs - 215 - 300g

Breakfast:

1.5 cups oats
2 x tbsp peanut butter
2 x boiled eggs
50g blueberries
5ml Omega 3 oil
10ml MCT oil
1 xCLA

snack 1:
1 x can tuna in water drainer
2 tbsp light mayo
2 x slice protein brea

Lunch:
220g 5% been mince
1 tsp olive oil for cooking
1.25 cup cooked basmati rice
10ml MCT oil
1 CLA

Snack 2:
1 tbsp psyllium husk
1 banan
1 scoop why

dinner:
200g salmon or steak
1 tbsp butter for cooking
1 baked potato
5ml omega 3 oil
10ml mct oil
1 tbs psyllium husk

before bed:
1 scoop ON Casein

Supplements -
Creatine after training
BCAA
C4 pre workout
5g dextrose post workout
half scoop whey post workout

do me a favor, for the next 7 days, I want you to measure everything you put in your mouth on a scale, and keep a record of it on fat secret or my fitness pal. at the end of the week, i want you to tell us what your daily calorie intake is and your macro break down. i never suggest using scoops and cups and tablespoons because there is so much variance in those measurements. is the scoop level? flat scraped off? Heaped? so thats just 1 example. use the scoops, and make sure you measure how much of everything you are eating based on a scale not a scoop.

Moakus - Noted, what is the dosage I shoule be looking for if I am going to do a 20 week low dosage course at 250mg per week?

yes this is perfect

Can you please advise me on dosage. I have 4 x 5000UI vials. So not during cycle? i have seen some guys mention in threads about the benefits of using during cycle.

mix 1 vial of 5000iu with 1ml of water and get 10 insulin syringes, draw 10 units up and store all 10 of them in the fridge, inject 10iu eod. so that will be 500iu eod.

yes hcg can be beneficial when using incredibly suppressive substances such as tren and deca, not so much test.

Empire thank you so much for taking the time to respond this is very helpful.

I will get a food scale tomorrow and comment again on here in 7 days so please check in again.

I also listed my training program above so you can see it but I will paste again here for easy reference -

Moakus -

Training plan as follows:

Monday -
quads:
4 x 8 lunges - usually start with 20kg and end around 30kg dumbells
4 x 8 squats - usually warm up set with 60kg then en around 120-130kg
4 x leg press - usually start around 140kg and end around 260kg
4 x sumo squats - 30kg dumbell

Biceps:
4 x 20 bicep curl - will start with 8 and end around 12-14kg at this rep range
4 x 20 incline facing bicep curl - ( as above )
4 x 20 concentrated curl - around 10-12kg
4 x 20 hammer curl - around 12 kg

Abs:
3 x 15 lying leg raise
3 x 15 cable crunch

10 min walk - cool down

Tuesday -
Chest:
2 x 20 push ups
4 x 8 incline dumbel press - usually start with around 26kg and end with 40kg at a slow rep range
Smith machine flat bench pyramid 20 - 8 - 60 to 80kg
incline cable flies pyramid - 20 - 8
Low cable scoop pyramid 20 - 8

Calves:
3 x 25 standing calves
3 x 25 seated calves

Wednesday:
40 min faster cardio

EveningL

Glutes:
4 x 10 smith machine bulgarian split squat
4 x 8 lying leg curl
4 x 8 sitting leg curl
4 x 8 straight leg deadlift

triceps:
4 x 20 Z bar lying tricep extention
4 x 20 triceps kickbacks
4 x 20 cable push down
3 x 10 dips
4 x 20 cable rope push down

Abs:
3 x 15 lying leg raise
3 x 15 cable crunch

Thursday -
Back:
3 x 10 wide grip pull ups
4 x 8 single arm dumbell row - around 35kg
4 x 8 bent over barbel row - around 50 - 60kg
4 x 8 lat pull down
4 x 8 cable pull down

Calves:
3 x 25 standing calves
3 x 25 seated calves

15 min eliptical

Friday -
Dealts:

4 x 10 W press
4 x 10 Seated lateral flies
4 x 8 standing push press - around 50 - 60kg
4 x 10 cross pull
4 x 8 upright row

Biceps:
4 x 20 bicep curl
4 x 20 incline bicep curl
4 x 20 concentration curls

Abs:
3 x 15 Lying leg raise
3 x 15 cable crunch

Sat:
40 min fasted cardio

It will be helpful if you can advise me on the cycle or dosage of the Equi as I got the dosage now for PCT and the test.

thanks again Empire

i am going to change up your training here, these sets i am telling you to do, are WORKING SETS, i dont count warm up sets.

Monday -
LEGS:
2 x 6-8 squats @ 130kg 1x 8-12 @ 110kgs (go to failure on last set)
2 x 10-12 leg press @ 260kg 1x 15-20 reps 200kgs (go to failure on last set)
1 x 8-12 Lunges reps 30kg dumbells, 1 x 12-15 reps @ 25kgs (go to failure on last set)
2 sets of Romanian deadlift 6-12 reps (go to failure on last set)
sumo squats - 30kg dumbell complete waste of time
Calves
2 sets of 10-15 rep standing calve raises ( in the bottom position hold the stretch for a count of 10. and it is 1 missippi, 2 missippi counting. and hold in the top position for 1 second.) if you can do more than this for calves you arent doing it right.

Biceps:
1 x 6-10 d/b bicep curl s bicep curl @ 15kgs 1 x 10-15 @ 11kgs. both arms at the same time
1 x 8-10 Hammer curl @ 18kgs, 1x 10-15 @ 15kgs.
1 x 20 reps reverse curl @ 20-25kgs


Tuesday
Chest:
2 x 6-10 incline dumbell press @40kgs 1 x 10-12 @ 35kgs(last set to failure)
1 x 6-10 Flat smith machine @ 85kgs 1x 10-15 reps @ 75kgs (last set to failure)
1 x Body weight Dips AS Many Reps As possible. (failure)
2 sets of incline flys 15-20 reps @ 22kgs (no failure)

Abs:
3 x 15 lying leg raise
3 x 15 cable crunch

10 min walk - cool down

Wednesday:
REST

Thursday
Delts
2 x 10-12 strict military press @ 50kgs 1 x 12-15 @ 40kgs (last set to failure)
2 x 10-12 Seated lateral raises, 1 set 15-20 (last set to failure)
2 x 10-12 Upright rows on a cable with a rope 1x 15-20reps (last set to failure)
2 x rear delt flys 12-15 reps (hold the dumbell at the top in contraction for 3 seconds each rep) no failure

triceps:
1 x 10-15 triceps kickbacks ( hold in contraction for 3 seconds each rep, no failure)
2 x 6-10 weight dips 1 set AMRAP Body weight dips (last set to failure)
1 x 6-10 Skull crushers on the floor. 1x 10-15 reps (last set to failure)

Abs
3 x 15 lying leg raise0
3 x 15 cable crunch

Friday
Back:
1 x 6-10 bent over barbel row @ 65kg 1x 8-12 @ 55kg (last set to failure)
2 x 6-10 weight chin ups , 1x BW chin ups AMRAP (last set to failure)
2 x 8-10 single arm dumbell DEAD STOP row @ 40kg 1x 10-12 reps @ 35kgs (last set to failure)
1 x 6-10 close grip pull down 1x 10-12 (last set to failure)
3 x 5 sumo deadlifts (same weight all 3 sets, 1-2 before failure)

Calves
2 sets of 10-15 rep seated calve raises ( in the bottom position hold the stretch for a count of 10. and it is 1 missippi, 2 missippi counting. and hold in the top position for 1 second.) if you can do more than this for calves you arent doing it right.

Moakus71 wrote: No not aiming for a kid just yet it was more to compliment the HCG and help the hormones. But I take your advice on this thank you 00pump

It's not a compliment its used during IVF treatment. Two very different hormones. The only time you might consider it is if your testosterone levels have raised significantly during PCT and then you do bloods and see your FSH levels are low. However this would be very rare.

This looks solid thank you Empire I will follow it to the T once we can one day go back to the gym.

What is your insight on Cardio when on a program and cycle like this?

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/10-diet...contest-prep-results

i did 30 cardio sessions in a year. you tell me what my view is on cardio to get into condition

Wow what a transformation! really motivating me have read it three times already I have many questions but you have helped me so much already so I won't pester you with this.

I will report back by next week Thursday on my measurements for my diet so please keep a look out for my post on this thread.

Best - Moakus

shoot with questions, i am here to answer.

Awesome thank you Empire! Here are a few - I am sure these would also be questions some guys on this forum wonder about -

1. In your transformation especially around your waist you managed to bring all your abs out, (besides the dermatone ) )do you have advice on doing this more effectively ( not the whole abs are in the kitchen vibes ) as I have been working out and dieting consistently for a long time and it is as if I can never break that barrier of having them show 100%. they get to the 60% mark and plateau. its a very confusing thing for me as my body is naturally athletic and an ectomorph.
This is one thing skilled guys like you that do competition seems to have secrets about.

2. Do you have any advice on bicep tendonitis? have been suffering from it for years and I had acupuncture a year or so back and it really helped tremendously but has come back again. I have read up on collagen tablets but don't think this is effective.

3. Shaping the bottom cups of your pecs. I see you really brought this out and shaped it really well. I have a natural form of minor Gyne or not the smallest nipples and even though my chest is lean when nipples arent hard there is always still that pointy look. drives me insane.

4. If legs is one of the muscle groups to balance out more how can I incorporate this into my program without over training? My legs have a good shape but they are naturally small such as my calves and glutes. my quads arent bad when I am training lekka but its always been a bit on the skinny side (i get the genes part but other than that )

5. Is it actually possible to put on weight and size and get leaner? there is so much contradicting info out there and as I have never done competitions etc I would like to know the realities of getting bigger and leaner. The supposed diet plan I have now is suppose to enable me to do so.

here are some cut off photos to not break the forum rules of current condition to show you what I mean and context around my training and diet -

https://ibb.co/Y26G93v

https://ibb.co/YRMD1PZ

https://ibb.co/hDMqFrN

https://ibb.co/Fmk9Pp6

M

Awesome thank you Empire! Here are a few - I am sure these would also be questions some guys on this forum wonder about -

1. In your transformation especially around your waist you managed to bring all your abs out, (besides the dermatone ) )do you have advice on doing this more effectively ( not the whole abs are in the kitchen vibes ) as I have been working out and dieting consistently for a long time and it is as if I can never break that barrier of having them show 100%. they get to the 60% mark and plateau. its a very confusing thing for me as my body is naturally athletic and an ectomorph.
This is one thing skilled guys like you that do competition seems to have secrets about.

Well to be honest, i only trained abs from 5 weeks out until the 1 week out mark, stop abs and legs 7 days out from a show to make sure that there is no additional inflammation there.

Sorry to tell you this, abs are made in the kitchen. you not gonna like to hear it but it is the case, the thicker the skin with water and fat, the less you are going to see. Wrap a brick in a thick duvet(high body fat) will you see the brick? maybe. wrap a brick in a sheet (thin skin, no body fat and water) will you see the brick? everything even the branding on it if they still do branded bricks.

Plain and simple, you are not plateauing with seeing them, it just you have to diet HARDER and LONGER. People think abs will come in a 12 week period, maybe yes, maybe no, but all i know is people give up way too easily when getting lean. Best advice you will hear is : SUCK IT UP, DIETING ISNT EASY,BUT IT IS WORTH IT.

There actually is no secret, diet harder, longer and suffer a bit and you will get there.

2. Do you have any advice on bicep tendonitis? have been suffering from it for years and I had acupuncture a year or so back and it really helped tremendously but has come back again. I have read up on collagen tablets but don't think this is effective.

you bicep tendonitis is from over training biceps and back. Looking at what you were doing is 19 sets of back work which all works the biceps and then 28 sets for biceps a week. So first off you are over training them, second off you arent allowing for enough recovery. if you look at how i structured things for you i cut your back work down to 13 sets a week, and 5 working sets for biceps. That will allow for recovery, unlike what you are doing currently. Personally i am no longer a fan of body part splits.

3. Shaping the bottom cups of your pecs. I see you really brought this out and shaped it really well. I have a natural form of minor Gyne or not the smallest nipples and even though my chest is lean when nipples arent hard there is always still that pointy look. drives me insane.

Chest development for me is all big movers, Smith machine press, Dumbell Press and dips. and i only do 4-6 total working sets for chest a week. i dont like doing cables, and flys really. Doesnt mean i dont do them, but it means they are probably last on my list for training chest.

4. If legs is one of the muscle groups to balance out more how can I incorporate this into my program without over training? My legs have a good shape but they are naturally small such as my calves and glutes. my quads arent bad when I am training lekka but its always been a bit on the skinny side (i get the genes part but other than that )

First off, i cut you leg volume down too, drastically. You haven't actually been prioritizing putting maximum effort into training your legs in my opinion hence why i structured your leg work out the way i did and with the weights i did. If training legs once a week you can get away with that higher volume i prescribed in 1 session, if doing twice a week i would structure it differently.

5. Is it actually possible to put on weight and size and get leaner? there is so much contradicting info out there and as I have never done competitions etc I would like to know the realities of getting bigger and leaner. The supposed diet plan I have now is suppose to enable me to do so.

yes, you can, but it isn't easy. Using steroids it is possible, if you are trying to get stronger each session, its is possible, if recovering perfectly it is possible. Your diet like is said, needs work but I want to see what you are actually taking in on a daily basis over a week, and go from there. Right now it is Guestimation using scoops and spoons etc.

here are some cut off photos to not break the forum rules of current condition to show you what I mean and context around my training and diet -

https://ibb.co/Y26G93v
https://ibb.co/YRMD1PZ

https://ibb.co/hDMqFrN

https://ibb.co/Fmk9Pp6

M

You have a good starting point to work with, you can easily pack on a hell of a lot more muscle on to that frame. Personally, I would change your training and dieting methods, but that is my opinion and how i would do it for my personal clients. I feel you arent making the most of your training sessions and that is the biggest thing.

Shit, thank you this is really great and motivates me more I am glad I reached out to hear some hard truths.

Once we look at the actual intake in one week I am really going to stick to the approach as long as possible I have the foundation in place and discipline to do so so I am excited to see what happens with this!

Its interesting to see how from my questions the approach you already did beforehand for legs and back this totally makes sense. I always have the idea of putting in another set or another rep to work the muscle a but more but it doesnt make sense actually so a big lesson for me here.

Thanks for the vote of confidence I feel like I can also still pack on a good amount of muscle still and am definitely not utilizing my full capacity but thats how we learn. I don't mind becoming one of your clients if that is what it will take to get put onto the right path with my diet and training. Like you and others on this forum we all want to achieve our best abilities and I am really grateful for a platform like this where it is no nonsense honest guys helping out.

PS I am not sure why but in the past it always seems like the guys from Natal really know their stuff when it comes training and contest prep lol.

So if you say you aren't a fan of body part splits have you found a push/pull/legs split have been more effective for you and others you train? i have been doing this at home with home workouts now and body feels beaten after day 2.

For legs I see your rationale on volume and having to do once a week but to your point of putting in max effort into legs would you suggest doing it twice and lowering the volume? In your plan it is all big compound movements and none such as leg curl etc to focus the glutes.

Shit, thank you this is really great and motivates me more I am glad I reached out to hear some hard truths.

Once we look at the actual intake in one week I am really going to stick to the approach as long as possible I have the foundation in place and discipline to do so so I am excited to see what happens with this!

Its interesting to see how from my questions the approach you already did beforehand for legs and back this totally makes sense. I always have the idea of putting in another set or another rep to work the muscle a but more but it doesnt make sense actually so a big lesson for me here.

You are already seeing the effects of doing extra sets and reps eg lack of growth and tendon issues.

the way i see it, you haven't been putting in the maximum effort into your working sets. so lets look at how you would train vs how i would train using chest press as an example :

set 1 : 10kg x 10 reps (warm up)
set 2 : 20kg x 10 reps (warm up)
set 3 : 25kg x 10 reps (warm up)
set 4 : 30kg x 10 reps (working) NO FAILURE AT 10 reps
set 5 : 35kg x 10 reps (working) NO FAILURE AT 10 reps
set 6 : 40kg x 10 reps (working) NO FAILURE AT 10 reps
set 7 : 40kgs x 6 reps (working) 1 set to failure.

so you have done 3 warm-ups and 4 working sets that total 68 reps of which to me only 18 reps are really where you are on the money. SO what I am saying is because your warm-ups are high in volume with higher reps, you are fatigued by the time you get to your actual sets that count. and even then you are taking 30 kgs and stopping at 10 reps but could have done 16, and you are taking 35kgs and stopping at 10 but could do 13, and then 40kgs you are stopping at 10 but you are pretty close to failure, and then your last set you are broken and hitting failure more so cos you are fatigued.

Me :
set 1 : 10kg x 10 reps (warm up)
set 2 : 20kg x 8 reps (warm up)
set 3 : 30kg x 4 reps (warm up)
set 4 : 35kgs x 2 reps (warm up)
set 5 : 45kgs x 5-10 reps (1 short of failure) so 80% effort
set 6 : 45kgs x 5-10 reps (1 short of failure) so 85 % effrot
set 7 : 38-40kgs x at least the last sets reps to failure 95% effort all out.

Therefore i have done 3 HARD WORKING SETS, no fluff stuff. at the weight gets heavier in the warm ups, the reps come down. so i am still fresh coming into my work sets, able to use a little more weight and i am going to 1 maybe 2 short of failure on the first 2 working sets, but pretty close, and then my last set i lighten the weight 10-20% and push to failure as i am fatigued from the first 2 sets but i am still able to take it to that failure point.

Thanks for the vote of confidence I feel like I can also still pack on a good amount of muscle still and am definitely not utilizing my full capacity but thats how we learn. I don't mind becoming one of your clients if that is what it will take to get put onto the right path with my diet and training. Like you and others on this forum we all want to achieve our best abilities and I am really grateful for a platform like this where it is no nonsense honest guys helping out.

PS I am not sure why but in the past it always seems like the guys from Natal really know their stuff when it comes training and contest prep lol.

i was chatting to 00pump the other day, and the forum has got a hive of knowledge, however, there are some guys on here that talk a big game, but if you saw them in real life you would laugh. One of the old mods used to work with me as a diet client and told me he was getting too big and his mates said he is massive and gets stretch marks using creatine for 4 weeks. But has got a ton of posts up here. People hide there personas and don't put their money where their mouth is and show people.

i have got 15 years in this game, i have done the 3000mg a week cycles and tried and the shit under the sun, however, I have seen that less is more if you do things right and i grow now more on TRT and a few little blast cycles than ever before.

i wish guys on here would show photos of themselves and you could judge if you gonna listen to what they have to say.

So if you say you aren't a fan of body part splits have you found a push/pull/legs split have been more effective for you and others you train? i have been doing this at home with home workouts now and body feels beaten after day 2.

I did for 85% of the year last year and upper-lower split 4 days a week apart from the last 5 weeks where i moved to full-body 5x a week. And total 30 cardio sessions.

i basically do 1 major movement for each big muscle group,apart for back and shoulders i do 2 eg :

chest 1 exercise 2-3sets
shoulders 1 exercise 2 sets
Side/rear detls 1 exercise 2 sets
Back width 1 exercise 3 sets
back thickness 1 exercise 3 sets
Triceps 1 exercise 3 sets.

i train biceps and forearms on a day that i do legs. But i have listed what i am gonna do coming up after lock down on another thread.

For legs I see your rationale on volume and having to do once a week but to your point of putting in max effort into legs would you suggest doing it twice and lowering the volume? In your plan it is all big compound movements and none such as leg curl etc to focus the glutes.

Glutes get hammered here
2 x 6-8 squats @ 130kg 1x 8-12 @ 110kgs (go to failure on last set)
2 x 10-12 leg press @ 260kg 1x 15-20 reps 200kgs (go to failure on last set)
1 x 8-12 Lunges reps 30kg dumbells, 1 x 12-15 reps @ 25kgs (go to failure on last set)
2 sets of Romanian deadlift 6-12 reps (go to failure on last set)

and
3 x 5 sumo deadlifts (same weight all 3 sets, 1-2 before failure)

if you are loading those deads and those RDLS your glutes and hams will work. i did 2 exercises for hamstrings last year. 1 Being RDL 2x a week and if I hadn't recovered it was SEATED HAMCURL. i Personally need to add in Glute work, so i usually do banded RDL's where the band is pulling your hips backward forcing you to thrust your hips forward, but this year i will add in hip thrusts and glute pull-throughs for glutes.

volume is what you can recover from so say you need to get 10 sets for hamstrings in a week, but that doesn't mean it needs to be direct hamstring work, so, for example, you do squats for 3 sets, you have still hit hammies there, then RDLS for 2 sets you hit hammies direct there too, then the next session you Leg press with feet a little higher on the platform, you hit a bit more hammies, and then RDL you hitting hammies again.

i haven't squatted for the best part of 16 months due to it making my hip fucked, so i did Hack squats, and Pendulum squats for quads last year for quads, i loved those 2 movements and it shows.


Each person is different, some excel on PPL and a days rest, and some burn out big time. its about how much you can recover. personally if i was doing PPL i would do

Monday : push
Tuesday : pull
Wednesday rest
Thursday legs
Friday push
Saturday rest
Sunday pull
Monday Legs
Tuesday rest
Wednesday Push
Thursday Pull
Friday rest
Saturday Legs
Sunday Rest

So in a 14-day cycle, you are resting 5 days, and at least 1-day rest after 2 days heavy lifting.

but it is all about how much you can recover.

You are already seeing the effects of doing extra sets and reps eg lack of growth and tendon issues.

the way i see it, you haven't been putting in the maximum effort into your working sets. so lets look at how you would train vs how i would train using chest press as an example :

set 1 : 10kg x 10 reps (warm up)
set 2 : 20kg x 10 reps (warm up)
set 3 : 25kg x 10 reps (warm up)
set 4 : 30kg x 10 reps (working) NO FAILURE AT 10 reps
set 5 : 35kg x 10 reps (working) NO FAILURE AT 10 reps
set 6 : 40kg x 10 reps (working) NO FAILURE AT 10 reps
set 7 : 40kgs x 6 reps (working) 1 set to failure.

so you have done 3 warm-ups and 4 working sets that total 68 reps of which to me only 18 reps are really where you are on the money. SO what I am saying is because your warm-ups are high in volume with higher reps, you are fatigued by the time you get to your actual sets that count. and even then you are taking 30 kgs and stopping at 10 reps but could have done 16, and you are taking 35kgs and stopping at 10 but could do 13, and then 40kgs you are stopping at 10 but you are pretty close to failure, and then your last set you are broken and hitting failure more so cos you are fatigued.

Me :
set 1 : 10kg x 10 reps (warm up)
set 2 : 20kg x 8 reps (warm up)
set 3 : 30kg x 4 reps (warm up)
set 4 : 35kgs x 2 reps (warm up)
set 5 : 45kgs x 5-10 reps (1 short of failure) so 80% effort
set 6 : 45kgs x 5-10 reps (1 short of failure) so 85 % effrot
set 7 : 38-40kgs x at least the last sets reps to failure 95% effort all out.

Therefore i have done 3 HARD WORKING SETS, no fluff stuff. at the weight gets heavier in the warm ups, the reps come down. so i am still fresh coming into my work sets, able to use a little more weight and i am going to 1 maybe 2 short of failure on the first 2 working sets, but pretty close, and then my last set i lighten the weight 10-20% and push to failure as i am fatigued from the first 2 sets but i am still able to take it to that failure point.

You hit the nail on the head there. I also tend to most times do two warm up sets lets say at 10 reps with increasing the weight the second set and then keep increasing the weight each set for another 4 but still hit the same reps at say 8 so essentially to your point those first 2 sets after warmup I am doing 8 instead of being able to do 13

Another thing I want to ask about is time under tension. The last two weeks before lockdown I was hitting 1 sec up 1 sec pause and 3 sec down and it did work the muscle nicely but of course with this you can't go as heavy but reason I am saying that is because with the approach you are suggesting how do you best optimise time under tension?

i was chatting to 00pump the other day, and the forum has got a hive of knowledge, however, there are some guys on here that talk a big game, but if you saw them in real life you would laugh. One of the old mods used to work with me as a diet client and told me he was getting too big and his mates said he is massive and gets stretch marks using creatine for 4 weeks. But has got a ton of posts up here. People hide there personas and don't put their money where their mouth is and show people.

i have got 15 years in this game, i have done the 3000mg a week cycles and tried and the shit under the sun, however, I have seen that less is more if you do things right and i grow now more on TRT and a few little blast cycles than ever before.

i wish guys on here would show photos of themselves and you could judge if you gonna listen to what they have to say.

Yes agreed. What I have also noticed is the amount of contradicting info sometimes and the guys that come to this forum actually go and use the advice given especially around cycles I think its important to take note of something that makes feasible sense but also for guys posting to keep in mind the advice given is taken away by the other person to apply.

However regarding TRT, tons of good info out there and if you listen to podcast like Joe Rogan they also refer to this often, he also does it himself but my question is if you start isn't it setting you up to then not go off it ever ?

What test do you do TRT with and why? I guess also what test in your experience have you felt worked and retained the best?

I did for 85% of the year last year and upper-lower split 4 days a week apart from the last 5 weeks where i moved to full-body 5x a week. And total 30 cardio sessions.

i basically do 1 major movement for each big muscle group,apart for back and shoulders i do 2 eg :

chest 1 exercise 2-3sets
shoulders 1 exercise 2 sets
Side/rear detls 1 exercise 2 sets
Back width 1 exercise 3 sets
back thickness 1 exercise 3 sets
Triceps 1 exercise 3 sets.

i train biceps and forearms on a day that i do legs. But i have listed what i am gonna do coming up after lock down on another thread.

I will check the other thread but this approach makes sense as you will have blood flowing to the muscle everyday at the least but recovery is then longer between example you take 2 days off in a row?

Also 30 sessions means once every 2 weeks if you break it down. You mentioned in another thread doing farmer walks instead of long cardio sessions. have you found this to be better?

I also came across something recently where the guy doesnt get his heart rate above 130 when doing cardio so he burns fat instead of muscle.

Glutes get hammered here
2 x 6-8 squats @ 130kg 1x 8-12 @ 110kgs (go to failure on last set)
2 x 10-12 leg press @ 260kg 1x 15-20 reps 200kgs (go to failure on last set)
1 x 8-12 Lunges reps 30kg dumbells, 1 x 12-15 reps @ 25kgs (go to failure on last set)
2 sets of Romanian deadlift 6-12 reps (go to failure on last set)

and
3 x 5 sumo deadlifts (same weight all 3 sets, 1-2 before failure)

if you are loading those deads and those RDLS your glutes and hams will work. i did 2 exercises for hamstrings last year. 1 Being RDL 2x a week and if I hadn't recovered it was SEATED HAMCURL. i Personally need to add in Glute work, so i usually do banded RDL's where the band is pulling your hips backward forcing you to thrust your hips forward, but this year i will add in hip thrusts and glute pull-throughs for glutes.

volume is what you can recover from so say you need to get 10 sets for hamstrings in a week, but that doesn't mean it needs to be direct hamstring work, so, for example, you do squats for 3 sets, you have still hit hammies there, then RDLS for 2 sets you hit hammies direct there too, then the next session you Leg press with feet a little higher on the platform, you hit a bit more hammies, and then RDL you hitting hammies again.

i haven't squatted for the best part of 16 months due to it making my hip fucked, so i did Hack squats, and Pendulum squats for quads last year for quads, i loved those 2 movements and it shows.


Each person is different, some excel on PPL and a days rest, and some burn out big time. its about how much you can recover. personally if i was doing PPL i would do

Monday : push
Tuesday : pull
Wednesday rest
Thursday legs
Friday push
Saturday rest
Sunday pull
Monday Legs
Tuesday rest
Wednesday Push
Thursday Pull
Friday rest
Saturday Legs
Sunday Rest

So in a 14-day cycle, you are resting 5 days, and at least 1-day rest after 2 days heavy lifting.

but it is all about how much you can recover.

How long is your workout on average with the full body split?
With the program you suggested given the lower volume it seems you can get through it in about 40 min? keen to know your thoughts on training time and rest periods.

you hit the nail on the head there. I also tend to most times do two warm up sets lets say at 10 reps with increasing the weight the second set and then keep increasing the weight each set for another 4 but still hit the same reps at say 8 so essentially to your point those first 2 sets after warmup I am doing 8 instead of being able to do 13

i am saying you should be using heavier weight and using your reps as a guide. if you say 6-10 reps, you want to be able to lift a weight that is light enough that you can get 6 reps, but so heavy you can barely get more than 10 reps, so you would fail trying for the 11th. However, there are going to be times that you will do say 10 reps for the first set and the 2nd set you get 7 reps. You will only increase the weight once you get both sets to 10 reps. and then even so its a case of going up 1 to 2kgs on a lift. so if you can do 13 reps, that weight is way too light.

Another thing I want to ask about is time under tension. The last two weeks before lockdown I was hitting 1 sec up 1 sec pause and 3 sec down and it did work the muscle nicely but of course with this you can't go as heavy but reason I am saying that is because with the approach you are suggesting how do you best optimise time under tension?

you always want to control the rep, so doing a 2 to 3 second negative is the goal, if you are at the bottom of a squat, holding for a second is great so there is no momentum, however, when you are dealing with big weights, it isn't always possible on the last couple reps, Especially those sets I have suggested where you come down in weight and try and hit more reps than your last set.

Yes agreed. What I have also noticed is the amount of contradicting info sometimes and the guys that come to this forum actually go and use the advice given especially around cycles I think its important to take note of something that makes feasible sense but also for guys posting to keep in mind the advice given is taken away by the other person to apply.

However regarding TRT, tons of good info out there and if you listen to podcast like Joe Rogan they also refer to this often, he also does it himself but my question is if you start isn't it setting you up to then not go off it ever ?

What test do you do TRT with and why? I guess also what test in your experience have you felt worked and retained the best?

what you need to know is that real TRT and Bodybuilders TRT are 2 different things. The goal of trt is to have your levels in the upper 1/4 of the maximum. so if 900 is the top end, you want to be using enough to keep you at 675-900. The minute you go over that, you tend to get some sides. It is for longevity and health and in my case depression. I suffer from depression and when on trt of 55-65mg 2x week of test cyp i feel like a normal human being again. so yes you can gain great muscle on trt, i have done so for a while, how ever bodybuilders see 1ml of test a week as TRT, so between 200-300mg weekly, which isn't TRUE TRT.

I will check the other thread but this approach makes sense as you will have blood flowing to the muscle everyday at the least but recovery is then longer between example you take 2 days off in a row?

Also 30 sessions means once every 2 weeks if you break it down. You mentioned in another thread doing farmer walks instead of long cardio sessions. have you found this to be better?

I also came across something recently where the guy doesnt get his heart rate above 130 when doing cardio so he burns fat instead of muscle.

i generally keep training to 2days on 1 day off, but more often than not dont train more than 4x a week these days.

i believe cardio needs to be intense enough to burn calories but also not so intense it affects weight training, do you know what is better than doing cardio? being a little more active during the day. Use the stairs, park further away than you need to, when at work, dont call the office 3 doors down, get up and walk there. you have 15 hours outside the gym, if you are burning 50 extra calories and hour just by walking to the next office, bouncing your leg, using the stairs, working whilst standing up etc you will burn 750 calories which is about 3x what you will burn in a 20-30min cardio session.

yes, i find farmers walk better as it is anabolic carrying big weights, uses a lot of stabilizers etc and can be done in between sets and won't really affect your ability to lift if using decent rest periods. Also take a walk between sets, that keep up your non-exercise activity thermogenesis.

How long is your workout on average with the full body split?
With the program you suggested given the lower volume it seems you can get through it in about 40 min? keen to know your thoughts on training time and rest periods.

on average it was around an hour and some change. i was doing quads, chest, Hamstrings, shoulders, back, Triceps, Calves, Biceps, abs. 3 working sets for each, adn tricep and calves was a superset, and biceps and abs was a super set.

if you are putting in maximum effort into big exercises, 2-3 minutes is needed. Higher frequency lower volume allows for fewer sets, fewer exercises but massive intensity, so you need a decent rest between sets. trust me, 40-50 mins doing hard, heavy training is better than doing 2 hours pussyfooting around a gym.

Hi Empire,

I hope you have had a great week!

So one week has passed and I will share my macros with you below where I have eaten the same diet as mentioned so it would be good if you can advise me on the diet itself and the foods I eat as I might not be eating the right foods or amounts.
I definitely saw the macros difference when measuring food as I measured each one to the gram.

I actually lost another kg in the last week or so even eating at this calorie range. Note that as per my diet I shared, 2 out of the 7 days I eat more carbs and less fat although on normal days my fat was still almost the same as on the more carb days.

here goes -


Wednesday -
Calories : 2631
Protein : 200g
Carbs : 166g
Fat : 133g

Macros -

Carbs : 25%
Fat : 45%
Protein : 30%

Thursday -
Calories 2876
Protein : 217g
Carbs : 111g
Fat : 133g

Macros -

Carbs : 16%
Fat : 53%
Protein : 31%

Thursday - (1st of 2 days eating more carbs and less fat)
Calories 3100
Protein : 181g
Carbs : 295g
Fat : 131g

Macros -

Carbs : 38%
Fat : 38%
Protein : 24%

Saturday - (2nd of 2 days eating more carbs and less fat)
Calories 3100
Protein : 220g
Carbs : 344g
Fat : 107g

Macros -

Carbs : 43%
Fat : 30%
Protein : 27%

Sunday -
Calories 2631
Protein : 200g
Carbs : 166g
Fat : 133g

Macros -

Carbs : 25%
Fat : 45%
Protein : 30%

Monday -
Calories 2597
Protein : 224g
Carbs : 126g
Fat : 131g

Macros -

Carbs : 19%
Fat : 46%
Protein : 34%

Tuesday -
Calories 2687
Protein : 233g
Carbs : 137g
Fat : 133g

Macros -

Carbs : 20%
Fat : 45%
Protein : 35%

Wednesday -
Calories 2667
Protein : 235g
Carbs : 122g
Fat : 134g

Macros -

Carbs : 18%
Fat : 46%
Protein : 36%

I look forward to your advice on this.
M

ok and just a quick one, did you weight go up? stay the same?

Hi Empire I have gone down 1kg.

But generally my weight stays the same