HELP WITH KICKSTART/ STACKING ORALS

Hey guys its my 1st post on here. I need some advice about the oral kickstart of my upcoming bulking cycle. Before i begin, here are my stats and cycle history.
Age 22
Weight 86kg
Height 1.8m

Cycle 1: Test cyp 10 weeks NO PCT
cycle 2: week 1-3 dbol 20mg/day
week 1-14 test enanthate then test cyp 400mg/week NO PCT AGAIN (big mistake didnt get away with it this time. kept gains but felt SHITE)

Cycle 3: week 1-2 test cyp 1gram/week
week 3-16 test cyp 750mg/week
week 1-3 dbol 30mg/day
week 17-28 BRIDGE test cyp 250mg/week
week 29-35 test cyp 500mg/week + 50mg tren ace eod
week 36-40 test cyp 500mg/week + dbol 50mg/day
week 43-47 kessar 40mg/day + clen 120mcg/day

Finished Pct 1 month ago. kept all of my lean gains and dropped water and bf and feeling good. It was longer than your average cycle but sides were minimal and recovery was quick.
Plan to start a bulker in 2 months time (after blood work)it looks something like this

Week 1-14 Pgw supertest 320 320mg/week+ test cyp 400mg/week+ Deca 400mg/week
week 1-6 Anadrol 50mg/day
week 15-27 BRIDGE test cyp 250mg/week until cutting cycle

it is my first time doing both abombs and deca. my main question relates to my anadrol kickstart. I have read about a synergy between Anadrol and dbol if stacked together at moderate doses with minimal liver damage.Typically 50mg anadrol/day and 30mg dbol/day. the logic is that surely a total of 80mg of two orals is better than 100mg of anadrol both gains wise and for the livers sake. I was thinking of doing this for my kickstart as i have always used dbol as a kicker aqnd want to try something new but id like to know what you guys think and if any of you have tried it.advice will be most appreciated.

Firstly Nolvadex alone is not a PCT. Secondly 6 weeks Anadrol/Dbol with minimal liver damage I don't think so. What's your b/fat and what does your diet look like?
Time on + PCT = Time off.

bodyfat is at around 12%. Diet is clean consists of high potein around 200g per day low gi carbs and low saturated fat. Will post details later. Nolvadex for pct is sufficient but i will use hcg in my next cycle too. Im not saying that there wont be liver damage and i will be taking liver protection supps.

omf kessar seriously thats why you still @ 86kg after all that gear ,i want to see your blood work after that it will be interesting

went up to 98 before the tren which brought me down to 94 then used clen during my pct and lost water weight and alot of fat. Went to 89. Got food poison and lost 3kg hence 86

we are going off topic now. If i wanted pct advice the topic would have been different. I have come a long way from being a 100kg fatass to where i am now with and without AAS in the last 5 years. I have made amazing progress and dont need negative feedback. I asked a question, gave my stats and expect a mature and sensible answer. I know my pct was minimal but i feel good and fully recovered although bloodwork will have to speak for that. Next cycle will have kessar and hcg for pct

@bigboyf, if you want a goodkick start with less liver toxicity why dont you just run d-bol at a higher dose or frontload with test prop? Wouldn't advise you to experiment with combining 2 extremely hepatoxic drugs just coz there's a chance "they might cancel each other out". You've only got one liver bru, respect it

Bru are you aware of the potential long term damage you are doing to yourself by being on gear basically all year round? Would you like to have (more?) children one day?
Being on test for so long there's a real danger that your body might decide to quit producing its own test full time. You've never run HCG as well, how are your testicles looking?

true about the liver bro but honestly wouldnt 50mg anadrol plus 30 dbol be much better than say 100mg anadrol let alone 100mg dbol which is unheard of. I know my cycle was long and i doubt ill be doing that again. But i have recovered well. The boys are as big if not bigger than they used to be, libido is high and i feel great. Even starting to slowly make off cycle gains which is great. I already have the anadrol so ill probably just leave the dbol as its my first time doing anadrol so gains should be decent by itself as a kickstart. The reason i asked is because i read on another board about guys who did the oral stack and they said the results are way superior to high doses of single orals. Also the dopamine release from the dbol counteracts the shitty anadrol displaced feeling

its amazing how the gold and advanced boarders always give the good and constructive advice while the juniors attempt to flame and miss the point completely.

bigboyf wrote: we are going off topic now. If i wanted pct advice the topic would have been different. I have come a long way from being a 100kg fatass to where i am now with and without AAS in the last 5 years. I have made amazing progress and dont need negative feedback. I asked a question, gave my stats and expect a mature and sensible answer. I know my pct was minimal but i feel good and fully recovered although bloodwork will have to speak for that. Next cycle will have kessar and hcg for pct

look dude you did get a good an sensible answer... i have too come along way from being a 115kg obese fat ass but i sure as hell dont stay on AAS all year around...you might have the blood work to say you are fine and healthy NOW,but esentially but staying on long term with no pct is actually harmful to the body! its like saying eating mac donalds everyday when u are 15 is fine cos u play alot of sport and dont get fat easily but long term health effects of a crap load of sodium,processed foods,saturated fats and other crap nutrients may cause u to die at the age of 40 from a world of problems! so the reason u got told to do a proper pct and come off is because long term u are not gonna love the effects of constant steroid use! time off is needed for your body to adjust to the changes your body has made! so you did get a constructive answer,and just because u got blood tests done to say your test levels are back to normal did u get a chance to get a sperm count done in order to see if you have gotten your nuts back to working order too???

rather like dead goat said kickstart your cycle with a single oral,either dbol or anadrol,and use a short ester test to kick start with over using two orals together,50mg of anandrol is pretty heavy on the liver,50mg of dbol not as heavy as the anadrol but still liver toxic,so combining the two of 50mg anadrol + 30mg of dbol is still putting strain on the liver no matter what way you look at it... it would be like saying i will only have half a glass of sprite cos its quite sugary and u dont wanna have to much sucrose but combining it with a full glass of orange juice cos it the healthier version but has twice as much fructose esentially u should've just gone with 1 or the other....

Also remember blood tests are only accurate in what you testing. You are damaging your body regardless what those tests show. I have had kidney tests show I am doing ok, yet i'm pissing out blood, and I mean serious amounts of it. I am telling you now you are screwing your body up. Your body needs to be off gear for the same time it's on at minimum. Nobody here knows your personally however your well being is just being looked after.

Give your body a 3+ month break, and stick to a basic cycle, adding all that other stuff doesn't mean it will be more effective. Some users can use Test at 500mg a week for the rest of their cycles future and always put on gains. It is not about how much gear you use, it is about your body being in balance. When hormones are all over the place some serious strain in put on your bodies inner workings, your heart must pump harder, your kidneys working overtime to clear out the toxins and your liver too. On a healthy human you can cut out 60% of the liver and it will grow back. On somebody that uses alcohol and drugs (steroids, and specially 17-alpha alkylated compounds, they are hepatoxic, there is no two ways of looking at it. Like DJ made that reference, who cares if it's less toxic, and no I don't believe anadrol at 50mg is more toxic than dianabol at 50mg, as its not primary metabolized by the liver.

However, you are putting your body under severe strain in the first 4-6 weeks of your cycle? Why not after all your abuse catch a wakeup and start to look after yourself, before you sorry and land up with an enlarged heart (all the blood tests in the world wont pick that up). Balance! Is all your body wants, your body doesn't catch cancer / heart disease, liver disease, etc. It is developed? Why ? Not because of age or anything, because of toxins.. The longer you keep putting in toxins the shorter you are bringing these conditions on. Find balance, you are honestly abusing steroids at the moment and that is a dangerous game to play. And understanding steroids goes much further than reading a few articles.

" www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/post-cy...-to-pct-construction "
Read this or follow Doctari's PCT then take time off to read, study and construct a future cycle which im sure anyone here would be glad to advise you on, Personally I have combined Dianabol 40mg/day with Anadrol 50mg/day. Pissed blood for a week, we are giving you this advise as we have had to learn the hard way the implications of Steroid abuse. Im not trying to flame you just hoping you take what we say seriously.

bigboyf wrote: Hey guys its my 1st post on here. I need some advice about the oral kickstart of my upcoming bulking cycle. Before i begin, here are my stats and cycle history.
Age 22
Weight 86kg
Height 1.8m

Cycle 1: Test cyp 10 weeks NO PCT
cycle 2: week 1-3 dbol 20mg/day
week 1-14 test enanthate then test cyp 400mg/week NO PCT AGAIN (big mistake didnt get away with it this time. kept gains but felt SHITE)

Cycle 3: week 1-2 test cyp 1gram/week
week 3-16 test cyp 750mg/week
week 1-3 dbol 30mg/day
week 17-28 BRIDGE test cyp 250mg/week
week 29-35 test cyp 500mg/week + 50mg tren ace eod
week 36-40 test cyp 500mg/week + dbol 50mg/day
week 43-47 kessar 40mg/day + clen 120mcg/day

Finished Pct 1 month ago. kept all of my lean gains and dropped water and bf and feeling good. It was longer than your average cycle but sides were minimal and recovery was quick.
Plan to start a bulker in 2 months time (after blood work)it looks something like this

Week 1-14 Pgw supertest 320 320mg/week+ test cyp 400mg/week+ Deca 400mg/week
week 1-6 Anadrol 50mg/day
week 15-27 BRIDGE test cyp 250mg/week until cutting cycle

it is my first time doing both abombs and deca. my main question relates to my anadrol kickstart. I have read about a synergy between Anadrol and dbol if stacked together at moderate doses with minimal liver damage.Typically 50mg anadrol/day and 30mg dbol/day. the logic is that surely a total of 80mg of two orals is better than 100mg of anadrol both gains wise and for the livers sake. I was thinking of doing this for my kickstart as i have always used dbol as a kicker aqnd want to try something new but id like to know what you guys think and if any of you have tried it.advice will be most appreciated.

Hey bud.
Welcome to the board!

Dont take to hear the 'flaming' from other members. It's just their opinion - i dont think they mean any harm.

Anyway, my concern is that at 22 you've done 2 cycles minus pct and a 3rd where you were on gear for practically a year. It's now a month since you finished your 'pct' of kessar and you are wanting to go on another 27 week course?

You say recovery was quick but with those doses of cyp and tren I wouldnt be surprised if your hpta was still really struggling to get back to normal!

Question1 - why are you running cyp with the st? Why not just run one or the other?

Question2 - do you know the rate at which a mere (SINGLE) 180mg shot of deca shuts you down? Now you want to run 400mg of the stuff a week for 14 weeks and not do a comprehensive pct?

You are asking for trouble bro.

With regard to your abomb dbol 'strategy' I would like it if you could post the source/article where you read that 80mg of both is better than 100mg of the abombs. Both are terribly hapatoxic in their own right seperately & i question the theory that if taken together, they may be gentler? Stroh rum is heavy alone. Tequila is also repected. COmbine the 2 and you think it's gonna be gentle? I know im not comparing apples with apples in that analogy, but really it is pretty similar.

From the research that I have done, 50mg of abombs for 6 weeks is going to put you in hospital sooner than you may have anticipated. 80mg of both is going to do the same. Keep the front load to 4 weeks. Supertest has got fast acting esters anyway so i really dont get the logic.

Honestly bud, I think the goals you have set yourself have you blinded and perhaps in denial of the very possible & potential consequences of doing to your body what you already have and what you are planning to.

Being strong and looking good on stage or just with our shirts off is what most of us on here want. Although how far we go depends on the price we are willing to pay to get there....

Anyway, all the best with whatever you decide.

Peace...

Koe007 wrote: " www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/post-cy...-to-pct-construction "
Read this or follow Doctari's PCT then take time off to read, study and construct a future cycle which im sure anyone here would be glad to advise you on, Personally I have combined Dianabol 40mg/day with Anadrol 50mg/day. Pissed blood for a week, we are giving you this advise as we have had to learn the hard way the implications of Steroid abuse. Im not trying to flame you just hoping you take what we say seriously.

Doing 100mg Anadrol50/day with 50mg Proviron (On top of the other stuff of course!)
Will see how much blood i piss.

i understand where you guys are all coming from and thanks. When we are young we tend to put vanity before health etc. I wont do the year long cycle again like i said as i dont wanna fuck up my hpta. Ill keep anadrol as a single kickstart as its my first time doing it maybe throw in prop next cycle when i do a cutting/lean mass cycle. Im using the cyp with st for financial reasons i get the cyp for much less but i also want to try a test blend as i havent yet done so. I heard that deca takes forever to kick in so a cycle is minimum 12 weeks thats why i thought 14 would be sufficient. Ive dropped the bridging idea and will do a full pct and time off untill my cutting cycle. Would kessar and hcg be sufficient for pct?

ok so ive read doctaris pct protocol. Do i really need to add in an ai during pct? Ive decided to run 500mcg of hcg throughout my cycle as well.

per week that is

Yes, you can get away with Kessar and HCG I would throw in Aromasin too.. I would run the Test 2/3 weeks longer than the Deca, or rather switch to Prop for 4 weeks after you stop the Deca then another 16 days after the Prop before PCT can start. If you use NPP, then you must switch from Deca to NPP and run both the NPP and Prop for around 45 days, then stop both NPP and Prop and wait 16 days to start PCT. That is the perfect structure to start an effective PCT.

Things to have on standby, Adex / and a prolactin lowering drug like Dostinex or Bromocriptine as nandrolone possess progestin-type qualities.

Please note Aromasin is not any AI, it works side by side with your SERM's.

thanks bro i think ill do the test 3 weeks longer than the deca. The only issue with aromasin is that it is quite costly compared to an ai like letro but i will do my best to get hold of it. Also when using hcg during pct how long do i take it for as it can become suppressive in itself.

HGH + Kessar (combined) blood and fertility tests come back stating otherwise, also Letro and Nolva "compete" for the same receptor site, where as Aromasin + Nolva/Kessar doesn't. However if you running HCG through your cycle, well pointless for the first 2/3 weeks, then I wouldn't see a reason to run it during the entire PCT and rather the first 2 weeks, I would also extend the Kessar to around 5 weeks to be on the safe side.. I would then go on a serious detox and let your body find a balance

thanks bro its only after this cycle and doing some form of pct that i realise how important a solid pct protocol is. Especially with regard to keeping the quality gains made on cycle. I found adding clen to my pct worked very nicely too. Pity the food poisoning i have now fucked up alot of my mass couldnt hold down anything.

jackrabbit1"Doing 100mg Anadrol50/day with 50mg Proviron (On top of the other stuff of course!)
Will see how much blood i piss."
:laugh: You must be blown up like a balloon, thats seriously a lot.

Ja, but it's much more than keeping gains, it's making sure that your body functions properly, when you screw your body up and your body stops producing natural testosterone which it will if you continue to nail it, you will suffer sleeping conditions, you could break out with acne, develop heart disease, develop polyuria, depression and the list goes on.

I believe as a bodybuilder your life needs to be of balance, you need to look after yourself, and you are using steroids just to break past plateau's. DJ has some guys he knows that only use steroids for contest prep, I know guys that cycle twice a year and are just mind blowing powerful and in such good shape...

Hmm, all clenbuterol does, it helps protect you to a tiny degree from catabolic hormone glucocorticoid. The dosage you need to take for it to become anabolic your body will clutch out.

Koe007 wrote: jackrabbit1"Doing 100mg Anadrol50/day with 50mg Proviron (On top of the other stuff of course!)
Will see how much blood i piss."
:laugh: You must be blown up like a balloon, thats seriously a lot.

Nope - second day :laugh:

Lets put things into perspective again - anyone who dont agree with the writeup please say so?

www.steroid.com/Anadrol-50.php