Testosterone levels

vojago wrote: Did some more bloods and testosterone came back lower, very low. Many tests and scans later, this doc is thorough it seems, I have been diagnosed with hypogonadism.

My question is, with such low testosterone, and as a result, pretty much non existent estrogen, what is this doing to my joints? How serious is low estrogen when training? I'll be starting treatment soon, but till then, am I harming my joints if I lift heavy, or even moderate weights? How much damage could this have done if I've had low test for a while?

Maybe it's done nothing, don't freak your head out with maybe this or maybe that.. What tests did the Dr order and do you have the results, it will be helpful for others to see where you at and what treatment your Dr prescribes. Did he perhaps test your IGF 1 levels ?

Process was roughly as follows

1) Testosterone test. This came in quite low. There was another testosterone test before this a few weeks ago.
2) Very intimate physical exam.
3) Another panel of tests to confirm that the reading is low, with additional tests such as prolactin, LH, FSH and PSA for the prostate. Testosterone came in lower this time at around 1 nmol/l. LH and FSH very low as well. There were other items listed as well, but most of them were to rule out other underlying causes.
4) MRI for the brain to make sure there isn't a tumor, lesions or other physical issue with the pituitary.

I still need to discuss the options with the doc. I'll post an update as soon as we've agreed on a suitable treatment but it sounds like typical hormone replacement therapy.

I am concerned that the low estrogen could cause joint problems. Apparently low estrogen means dry joints. But what does that mean for joint health?

vojago wrote: Process was roughly as follows

1) Testosterone test. This came in quite low. There was another testosterone test before this a few weeks ago.
2) Very intimate physical exam.
3) Another panel of tests to confirm that the reading is low, with additional tests such as prolactin, LH, FSH and PSA for the prostate. Testosterone came in lower this time at around 1 nmol/l. LH and FSH very low as well. There were other items listed as well, but most of them were to rule out other underlying causes.
4) MRI for the brain to make sure there isn't a tumor, lesions or other physical issue with the pituitary.

I still need to discuss the options with the doc. I'll post an update as soon as we've agreed on a suitable treatment but it sounds like typical hormone replacement therapy.

I am concerned that the low estrogen could cause joint problems. Apparently low estrogen means dry joints. But what does that mean for joint health?

If your joints are fine don't worry about them.

And let me provide solid advice for the board, be very careful doing MRI's to identify growths on the pituitary. Many people have non cancerous growths in that area, the last thing you want is a misdiagnosis of cushing's. You have that removed and damage your pituitary you are properly fucked..

If you have your bloods please post the actual results, low could mean so many things, exact figures would be great.

00pump wrote:

vojago wrote: Process was roughly as follows
If your joints are fine don't worry about them.

And let me provide solid advice for the board, be very careful doing MRI's to identify growths on the pituitary. Many people have non cancerous growths in that area, the last thing you want is a misdiagnosis of cushing's. You have that removed and damage your pituitary you are properly fucked..

If you have your bloods please post the actual results, low could mean so many things, exact figures would be great.

Its been a few months since the blood tests showed I have a problem. I would like to thank everyone that has offered advice and support. It didn't show all the time in my posts, but I was in a super bad place.

I thought I'd give an update as I haven't followed the usual TRT regiment for this kind of problem.

My wife and I want another child, so for the time being the doctor has me on Clomid in stead of TRT. I started on 1 April this year. In May after about a month of Clomid my tools came alive again. Some time in July I realised I felt really great.

I haven't slept this well in years. As a curiosity I've been keeping track of my resting heart rate, and it has dropped from an average of around 70 to below 60, usually 58. The only time it picks up is if I'm coming down with something.

I don't think my libido is near where it used to, or should be, but I have back the enthusiasm I used to have for things. I enjoy time with my wife and daughter, and more important, I have the energy.

The above is I believe in part due to the Clomid, but also to a large extent due to the Keto diet I have been following. Although the Keto diet did nothing to improve my libido, it had an incredible positive effect on my energy levels and helped immensely with my cognitive ability. I could focus on tasks for the first time in ages. Now months after initiating the diet and treatment I realise what a bad state I was in.

The last thing I want to mention is since I was not going to meet my strength goals of three, four and five plates for the bench, squat and deadlift (I was so close...), I decided to drop all the accumulated fat. This was made easy with the Keto diet, and probably helped with the docs treatment. I went down 20 kg, mostly fat, but some muscle to be expected. I can see my abs for the first time in decades.

Long post, fluit fluit my storie is uit, for now at least.

Power post. Nothing better than hearing someone turn things around and feel cosmically charged.

Stocked for you bro! Don't be a stranger.

00pump wrote:

vojago wrote: Process was roughly as follows

1) Testosterone test. This came in quite low. There was another testosterone test before this a few weeks ago.
2) Very intimate physical exam.
3) Another panel of tests to confirm that the reading is low, with additional tests such as prolactin, LH, FSH and PSA for the prostate. Testosterone came in lower this time at around 1 nmol/l. LH and FSH very low as well. There were other items listed as well, but most of them were to rule out other underlying causes.
4) MRI for the brain to make sure there isn't a tumor, lesions or other physical issue with the pituitary.

I still need to discuss the options with the doc. I'll post an update as soon as we've agreed on a suitable treatment but it sounds like typical hormone replacement therapy.

I am concerned that the low estrogen could cause joint problems. Apparently low estrogen means dry joints. But what does that mean for joint health?

If your joints are fine don't worry about them.

And let me provide solid advice for the board, be very careful doing MRI's to identify growths on the pituitary. Many people have non cancerous growths in that area, the last thing you want is a misdiagnosis of cushing's. You have that removed and damage your pituitary you are properly fucked..

If you have your bloods please post the actual results, low could mean so many things, exact figures would be great.

That is exactly where I am. My Endo told me, that I have a growth in my pituary gland. But it is benign. And that I have Cushing's disease.


I have not gone for the next test she wants, which is, sticking a needle in my neck, injecting fluid they can trace on a scan, and then to another brain scan to look at the arteries/veigns in my brain.

Everytime I book into the hospital,the service gets worse, and worse, and worse. I just could not get myself to go back, after my last nightmare in hospital.

Colt wrote:

00pump wrote:

vojago wrote: Process was roughly as follows

1) Testosterone test. This came in quite low. There was another testosterone test before this a few weeks ago.
2) Very intimate physical exam.
3) Another panel of tests to confirm that the reading is low, with additional tests such as prolactin, LH, FSH and PSA for the prostate. Testosterone came in lower this time at around 1 nmol/l. LH and FSH very low as well. There were other items listed as well, but most of them were to rule out other underlying causes.
4) MRI for the brain to make sure there isn't a tumor, lesions or other physical issue with the pituitary.

I still need to discuss the options with the doc. I'll post an update as soon as we've agreed on a suitable treatment but it sounds like typical hormone replacement therapy.

I am concerned that the low estrogen could cause joint problems. Apparently low estrogen means dry joints. But what does that mean for joint health?

If your joints are fine don't worry about them.

And let me provide solid advice for the board, be very careful doing MRI's to identify growths on the pituitary. Many people have non cancerous growths in that area, the last thing you want is a misdiagnosis of cushing's. You have that removed and damage your pituitary you are properly fucked..

If you have your bloods please post the actual results, low could mean so many things, exact figures would be great.

That is exactly where I am. My Endo told me, that I have a growth in my pituary gland. But it is benign. And that I have Cushing's disease.


I have not gone for the next test she wants, which is, sticking a needle in my neck, injecting fluid they can trace on a scan, and then to another brain scan to look at the arteries/veigns in my brain.

Everytime I book into the hospital,the service gets worse, and worse, and worse. I just could not get myself to go back, after my last nightmare in hospital.

What is your cortisol levels. You can't be diagnosed with Cushings without doing a scan and your cortisol being off the charts. How do they know its benign? Many people do have growths (assumption) on the pituitary which are benign and when you mess with that fella from there on end you need to for the rest of your life manage ALL hormones the pituitary is responsible for. Not an operation i would take the gamble on.

00pump wrote:

Colt wrote:

00pump wrote:

vojago wrote: Process was roughly as follows

1) Testosterone test. This came in quite low. There was another testosterone test before this a few weeks ago.
2) Very intimate physical exam.
3) Another panel of tests to confirm that the reading is low, with additional tests such as prolactin, LH, FSH and PSA for the prostate. Testosterone came in lower this time at around 1 nmol/l. LH and FSH very low as well. There were other items listed as well, but most of them were to rule out other underlying causes.
4) MRI for the brain to make sure there isn't a tumor, lesions or other physical issue with the pituitary.

I still need to discuss the options with the doc. I'll post an update as soon as we've agreed on a suitable treatment but it sounds like typical hormone replacement therapy.

I am concerned that the low estrogen could cause joint problems. Apparently low estrogen means dry joints. But what does that mean for joint health?

If your joints are fine don't worry about them.

And let me provide solid advice for the board, be very careful doing MRI's to identify growths on the pituitary. Many people have non cancerous growths in that area, the last thing you want is a misdiagnosis of cushing's. You have that removed and damage your pituitary you are properly fucked..

If you have your bloods please post the actual results, low could mean so many things, exact figures would be great.

That is exactly where I am. My Endo told me, that I have a growth in my pituary gland. But it is benign. And that I have Cushing's disease.


I have not gone for the next test she wants, which is, sticking a needle in my neck, injecting fluid they can trace on a scan, and then to another brain scan to look at the arteries/veigns in my brain.

Everytime I book into the hospital,the service gets worse, and worse, and worse. I just could not get myself to go back, after my last nightmare in hospital.

What is your cortisol levels. You can't be diagnosed with Cushings without doing a scan and your cortisol being off the charts. How do they know its benign? Many people do have growths (assumption) on the pituitary which are benign and when you mess with that fella from there on end you need to for the rest of your life manage ALL hormones the pituitary is responsible for. Not an operation i would take the gamble on.

Cortisol should be < 60

Mine was 300 (5 times the limit)


I just did not have the guts to go back again.

And you did the spit samples, checking cortisol multiple times a day for week? Or just the one blood test?

What measurement are you referring too nmol/L?

00pump wrote: And you did the spit samples, checking cortisol multiple times a day for week? Or just the one blood test?

What measurement are you referring too nmol/L?

Sorry, I am trying to find the results. The Tablet that had all my information on, was stolen from me during an armed robbery.

I am trying to see if I perhaps shared it somewhere else.

No, it was not spit tests. I was booked into hospital for 3 days, and they ran lots of tests on me, including MRI, including Pituary.

They tested my cortisol using blood tests. Taking blood at 12 in the evening, and 8 in the morning.

I remember the Endo talking to me about my cortisol, and she was concerned because the red line on that test, was 60 (top), and mine tested 300, at 12 in the evening, when I was supposed to be calm.

I will search some more. Bloody burglars.

You don't have any auto immune conditions? Thyroid, diabetic? Has your cortisol levels ever been excessively low prior to this spike?

Colt wrote:

00pump wrote: And you did the spit samples, checking cortisol multiple times a day for week? Or just the one blood test?

What measurement are you referring too nmol/L?

Sorry, I am trying to find the results. The Tablet that had all my information on, was stolen from me during an armed robbery.

I am trying to see if I perhaps shared it somewhere else.

No, it was not spit tests. I was booked into hospital for 3 days, and they ran lots of tests on me, including MRI, including Pituary.

They tested my cortisol using blood tests. Taking blood at 12 in the evening, and 8 in the morning.

I remember the Endo talking to me about my cortisol, and she was concerned because the red line on that test, was 60 (top), and mine tested 300, at 12 in the evening, when I was supposed to be calm.

I will search some more. Bloody burglars.

that is some seriously elevated cortisol, to be honest. your cortisol usually spikes about an hour before you wake up, the through out the day tapers down until the evening. I had the same issues when I had a meltdown in 2016, in the hospital twice in a space of 3 weeks, and yea there was a lot that went with it. I did spit tests and all 4 came back in massive ranges. Took a lot over a good couple months to decrease that stress in my life. These days I use other herbals, to aid with these things. you would probably need to be taking 600mg ashwagandha 2x a day. It has the ability to raise or lower cortisol depending on what is needed by the body. And these days CBD works great for me.

00pump wrote: You don't have any auto immune conditions? Thyroid, diabetic? Has your cortisol levels ever been excessively low prior to this spike?

I did, but then it somehow changed. I had a very low thyroid, but it could not be treated due to Hashimoto's.

Then, suddenly something changed.

This was 1 year ago:

THYROID FUNCTION
================
Free thyroxine (FT4) 10.8 7.5 - 17.0 pmol/L
TSH 0.27 - 4.20 mU/L

COMMENT: Euthyroid.

1.69

Anti Thyroglobulin Ab 0.2 0 - 4 IU/mL
Anti Thyroperoxidase Ab 16.4 0 - 9 IU/mL

My sugar has been tested a couple of times, not problem there. I was surprised myself, cause my symptoms feel like low blood sugar.


I don't know if my Cortisol ever was low. I've always had stress issues, from my high school days. I am a natural stresser. I think, back then, my body was just young enough to handle it.

I'm just listing the abnormal values now:

Urea 10.6 HIGH 2.5 - 7.1 mmol/L

Gamma GT 57 HIGH 5 - 55 U/L

DHEA-S(Dehydroepiandrosterone) 1.2 should be 1.90 - 8.39

Serum Folic Acid 5.1
SERUM FOLATE RANGES
===================

Deficient 0.79 - 6.80 nmol/L
Borderline 6.80 - 12.2 nmol/L
Normal > 12.19 nmol/L

Empire wrote:
that is some seriously elevated cortisol, to be honest. your cortisol usually spikes about an hour before you wake up, the through out the day tapers down until the evening. I had the same issues when I had a meltdown in 2016, in the hospital twice in a space of 3 weeks, and yea there was a lot that went with it. I did spit tests and all 4 came back in massive ranges. Took a lot over a good couple months to decrease that stress in my life.

Me too, except I was in hospital twice, in 2014. For the same reason. And very low Testosterone.

You are a very complex case and with your urea, cortisol testosterone and DHEA being so out of range I definitely don't want to provide any advice as this needs to be treated be the looks of it by not only one but two specialists. I bet your other bloods are also out of whack. So you confirmed to have hashish? When was it diagnosed, how many years ago?

Has your specialist ever considered doing a Dutch test on you? Its extremely specialized and you need someone who knows exactly how to interpret the results and treat each element, it costs around 8k though but you seem to look like a person who may benefit from that seeing how extreme your hormone profile looks just from the limited information provided.

00pump wrote: You are a very complex case and with your urea, cortisol testosterone and DHEA being so out of range I definitely don't want to provide any advice as this needs to be treated be the looks of it by not only one but two specialists. I bet your other bloods are also out of whack. So you confirmed to have hashish? When was it diagnosed, how many years ago?

Has your specialist ever considered doing a Dutch test on you? Its extremely specialized and you need someone who knows exactly how to interpret the results and treat each element, it costs around 8k though but you seem to look like a person who may benefit from that seeing how extreme your hormone profile looks just from the limited information provided.

No problem. Thank you.

No, have not heard of the Dutch test yet. My Uro and Endo also did not mention it. I will look it up.

Thank you.

00pump wrote: You are a very complex case and with your urea, cortisol testosterone and DHEA being so out of range I definitely don't want to provide any advice as this needs to be treated be the looks of it by not only one but two specialists.

And that is where I am stuck. My current specialists ... each specialist only worries about his area of expertise. I am tired of bouncing from doctor to doctor.


Thank you for your reply and advice.

Here is an example

dutchtest.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03...Report-Ref032520.pdf

If it sounds like something of interest I am happy to give you a ladies name who is cutting edge in this field of testing and treatment. If admin is ok with it I can provide the information to him to relay to you.

00pump wrote: Here is an example

dutchtest.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03...Report-Ref032520.pdf

If it sounds like something of interest I am happy to give you a ladies name who is cutting edge in this field of testing and treatment. If admin is ok with it I can provide the information to him to relay to you.

I think so. Which city is she in ?

I had to think about this one, but I have nothing to lose ... except money.

My > 6 year journey has gost me an insane amount of money. Seen so many doctors. Last year I gave the functional doctor a chance. One of my friends was super happy with him, and insisted I go.

But over a 12 month period, it cost me around R42 000. And we made no progress.

Right now, I have to watch my finances. But I am also desperate for answers. Desperate enough to self treat this year. 6 Years, Many doctors, and no fix yet.

I can at least speak to this doctor you are referring to, and ask her advice.