Doctari: Is he correct? It's rather controversial

Wow, Doctari's PCT recommends several things that I've seen specifically countered on US boards, by medical professionals. However, I have to admit that I like the idea of HCG, proviron, and the anti-E. So if anyone can help me get my mind around some specific quesitons, I'd apprecaite the input:

• HCG: Wow, this is controversial. Many many forums say to use HCG during cycle only, at a max of 500UI/week. Doctari is suggesting 4'000IU per week, and his Ovidrel is (anecdotally) more intense than Pregnyl. Surely the T stimulation is going to be suppressive and thus counter productive?
• Aromisin: This must be because of the HCG which does indeed aromitise. But isn't low E2 as bad as hi E2 for erectile dysfunction? Is this not a real risk? If so, how would one manage it?
• Proviron and Anavar: YAY! I want a PCT that props up my T. But really? Surely this is suppressive and counter productive. SO many forums say keep clear of every single drop of exogenous T...

Perhaps someone has a link to a post where this protocol is fully explained? It's quite clearly an SA-only PCT.

My key issue is avoiding sexual dysfunction, whilst getting back to FULL sexual fuction (no ED and with swimmers pls)

He is a doctor... Just saying..

His PCT was tested on a number of top athletes and found to be very effective. There are proper studies and tests done, but he is not allowed to publish them yet. Once the medical board is done with the evaluation process those studies will be published here on this site.

His PCT cannot be compared to posts on US forums, that's rather insulting.

Just like to point out a few things:

1. Like chapel said: He is a docter.
2. I have read old posts and guess what, he is 130kgs...
3. Its been tried and testes.
4. This is by far the best steroid forum out there so why would you argue with the guys who KNOW what they talking about.
5. No one is going to force you to listen, so do what you feel is best, you clearly agree with the american bitches.

6. Why South Africa OWNS America...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Don't worry, I definitely don't worship the american bitches

This is good news! I like the look of this protocol a lot, and this is the first I've heard of any PCT being subjected to a real clinical trial (my background is in HIV clinical trials).

Placing a top-up order right now so I can do this from tomorrow


Oh, 1 point of clarity;
At one stage he says "Clomid...nothing else" and later "You can also add in Proviron at 50 to 100mg per day during the PCT". I trust the 2 orals can be taken from day 1, and not just from day 8?

Well a Dr. Skally who posts over at another board apparently has a PCT protocol that looks like this:
Day 1-20 : 2000iu HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - every other day.
Day 1-30 : nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : nolva 20mg/day

All subjects had fully recovered after PCT. It seems the docs like their HCG.

Stanabolic wrote: Well a Dr. Skally who posts over at another board apparently has a PCT protocol that looks like this:
Day 1-20 : 2000iu HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - every other day.
Day 1-30 : nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : nolva 20mg/day

All subjects had fully recovered after PCT. It seems the docs like their HCG.

Yep, but Dr. Scally's PCT has no HCG after the first 20 days. That makes more sense to me actually since ovidrel/hcg suppress LH production. But results speak for themselves.

Would running Ovidrel for the last 3 weeks of the cycle or in the bridge be fine, followed be a Clomid/Nolva PCT for something 'light' like Test Prop and Dbol/Tbol? As opposed to following Doc's PCT 2 strictly

MK wrote: Would running Ovidrel for the last 3 weeks of the cycle or in the bridge be fine, followed be a Clomid/Nolva PCT for something 'light' like Test Prop and Dbol/Tbol? As opposed to following Doc's PCT 2 strictly

Yes, a nolva/clomid PCT will definitely work faster if you reverse any testicular atrophy with HCG/ovidrel. Trust me after any 10 week test cycle there will be some testicular atrophy. Shutdown is shutdown is Shut-Down.

Thanks MuscleAddict, +1.

In that case I will run Ovidrel in the last few weeks of the cycle or bridge, followed by a PCT of Clomid then Nolva only.

ChrisZA wrote: Wow, Doctari's PCT recommends several things that I've seen specifically countered on US boards, by medical professionals. However, I have to admit that I like the idea of HCG, proviron, and the anti-E. So if anyone can help me get my mind around some specific quesitons, I'd apprecaite the input:

• HCG: Wow, this is controversial. Many many forums say to use HCG during cycle only, at a max of 500UI/week. Doctari is suggesting 4'000IU per week, and his Ovidrel is (anecdotally) more intense than Pregnyl. Surely the T stimulation is going to be suppressive and thus counter productive?
• Aromisin: This must be because of the HCG which does indeed aromitise. But isn't low E2 as bad as hi E2 for erectile dysfunction? Is this not a real risk? If so, how would one manage it?
• Proviron and Anavar: YAY! I want a PCT that props up my T. But really? Surely this is suppressive and counter productive. SO many forums say keep clear of every single drop of exogenous T...

Perhaps someone has a link to a post where this protocol is fully explained? It's quite clearly an SA-only PCT.

My key issue is avoiding sexual dysfunction, whilst getting back to FULL sexual fuction (no ED and with swimmers pls)

Maybe I'm missing something but where does the doc include Proviron and anavar in his pct?

If you take time to actually do some research behind ovidrel, aromasin, clomid, tamoxifen. You will be pleasantly surprised how much sense it actually makes.

ha ha ha why not use some tren or deca as your pct will make u lekker big boet.

Koe007 wrote: Maybe I'm missing something but where does the doc include Proviron and anavar in his pct?

WOAH!! I read on the doctari PCT sticky; "You can also add in Proviron at 50 to 100mg per day during the PCT. Bridge this 3 week period of PCT with ultra low dose oral AAS - like 5 to 10mg Dianabol or similar dose of Anavar per day."
Does the "PCT bridge" perhaps refer to the period between cycle and PCT and not to the PCT itself?? I read that as I can add Proviron and anavar to the whole PCT cycle. Was I about to screw this up royally?

Haha, good thing you read that again. He was definitely referring to to the time (bridge) between last injection and pct.

Ok, so for final clarity, doctari is ok with low doses of Proviron during PCT? It's the anavar that's for the bridge period only.

ChrisZA wrote: Ok, so for final clarity, doctari is ok with low doses of Proviron during PCT? It's the anavar that's for the bridge period only.

No, dont use steriods during PCT.

gorilla wrote: Just like to point out a few things:

1. Like chapel said: He is a docter.
2. I have read old posts and guess what, he is 130kgs...
3. Its been tried and testes. :silly:
4. This is by far the best steroid forum out there so why would you argue with the guys who KNOW what they talking about.
5. No one is going to force you to listen, so do what you feel is best, you clearly agree with the american bitches.

Hey guys. How accurate would this be?

"OK, Ovidel and Pregnal is the same thing... HCG is HCG.... Remember that... Only diffrence is that Preganal can be extracted from urine or by genetic modification and Ovidrel, on the other hand, is a product of recombinant DNA... Preganal is cheap... Ovidrel is expensive!! But they work exactly the same!!"

MCJ wrote: Hey guys. How accurate would this be?

"OK, Ovidel and Pregnal is the same thing... HCG is HCG.... Remember that... Only diffrence is that Preganal can be extracted from urine or by genetic modification and Ovidrel, on the other hand, is a product of recombinant DNA... Preganal is cheap... Ovidrel is expensive!! But they work exactly the same!!"

Well it is hard to take someone seriously who is talking about 'preganal' I believe that they both do the same thing to LH, FSH, TSH regardless of what whoever said what. I'm trying my hardest not to step on any toes here and this is just my opinion. There is much more info available now than when doctari spoke about ovidrel in 2008. I would like to believe that there is a better GnRH than HCG that is more effective but according to the research I have done they do the same thing. They BOTH have identical alpha sub units to LH, FSH, TSH. I think Organon who makes pregnyl couldn't exactly lie about this on their prescription drug label. EMB Serono who manufacture ovidrel have not made any claims that ovidrel is more effective either. If it was they would have jumped at the opportunity to make pregnyl redundant and make millions of $ more. Nowhere else on the internet will you find any doctors or clinical trials saying ovidrel is more effective. Ovidrel will be more stable because of the biosynthetic production process vs HCG but the actual hormone has the same effects and ovidrel will not make you recover after steroids any better than regular HCG.

Before a drug like ovidrel is approved in the US the (OCP) Office of Clinical Pharmacology and Biopharmaceutics (part of FDA) conducts extensive research before it is approved. The OCP's review which is MANY pages long also compares HCG and rHCG and does not show any significant differences either. Interesting the review does say that ovidrel is slightly more effective injected intramuscularly than subcutaneously but back to the point. Yes, ovidrel is the next gen HCG because recombinant dna technology makes things easier than relying on supplies from extracted HCG, and makes the hormone more stable after reconstitution. But for PCT purposes this makes no difference.

Basically Ovidrel is HCG that is is produced from genetically engineered hamster ovary cells!

Like Dr. John Crisler says, "Ovidrel IS hCG. But it's made from recombinant technology, instead of extraction from human female urine." I will gladly change my opinion in a split second if I can be shown any evidence to the contrary.

I was just looking around on another board and the guys are saying to never use clomid and nolva for PCT. They are praising something called Unleashed.

Ever heard of it?

I'm sure they are just trying to promote their own product but it looks like a lot of the members are going with it and agreeing. I'm still going to stick with the PCT I got from here but I'm always interested to hear more opinions.

What doest this "Unleashed" contain?

Serving size: 3 capsules (says to take 2 servings daily)

Avena Sativa (7% Avenacosides A&B ) 500mg
Muria Puama 12:1 Extract 500mg
Trimethylglycine 1000mg
Xanthoparmelia Scabrosa 50mg
Urtica Dioica 100mg
Ashwagandha (Standardized to 1.5% Withanoides) 500mg

Stanabolic wrote: Serving size: 3 capsules (says to take 2 servings daily)

Avena Sativa (7% Avenacosides A&B ) 500mg
Muria Puama 12:1 Extract 500mg
Trimethylglycine 1000mg
Xanthoparmelia Scabrosa 50mg
Urtica Dioica 100mg
Ashwagandha (Standardized to 1.5% Withanoides) 500mg

There is no way that this concoction will be better than a conventional PCT.