Beginner on roids - need advice - Dianabol

Hi - just a bit about myself
Age: 25
Training: 3 Years
Weight: 66 Kg
Built: Athletic

I have been trainin for three years and battle me ass to get size. I only became more defined, havent got much body fat. Also i quickly run out of steam lately. I just got my hands on Dianabol 10Mg Tabs. I started begining of July to take a tab in the morning and one before bed. Planning to start training again today was of for a week. Will then take another tab a hour before training.

I have read the articels about PCT but battle to make head or tails about it. Ek sit met my hande in my hare!! I need to know where to get hold of something for PCT and the negative side effects of Dianabol - it shuts down liver function and mainly i would like to prevent "lady like breasts". Also can i only use dianabol or should it be combined with something else.

Gooi maar advies!

u are screwed dude,nothing works for dbol only cycles,u are gonna have to live with the liver damage and raisin nuts for the rest of your life,should've read a bit more before starting a dbol only cycle...

I forgot to mention - i would rather not take anything that involves syringes. Orral meds is my preverred method of taking roids and anything against the negatives side effects.

I am also using a Muscle science protein shake for extra protein. If there is any Afrikaans boertjies out there - i wouldn't mind any advice and you can contact me at EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED

Thanks / Dankie

Any advice then Djeasye?? What can i take with D-bol then and what should i watch out for - the negatives...

And what about when i go off the above stuff?

Thanks.

Dude...

To be perfectly honest... stop taking ASAP... and don't even worry about PCT for now, go buy animal stack, thats about all the PCT you need for now and leave gear alone...

Read every question and answer on this site, read all the drug profiles, affects and side affects...

And everyone when they first start are afraid of needles but that is something you need to get over... in all honesty I think dbol is just plain sh2t!!! I still till today cannot find a reason to use it, unless you are sooooooo greedy you need bloat from the get go...

take a proper cycle, small doses, injectable steroids low side affects, something like eq 200mg a week with 250mg test cypionate or test enathate. sustanon is an overrated steroids and requires to many weekly injections to work properly...

i trully hope you take the advice to heart and not think you know better and continue to take that shit..

good luck

Also not sure how prone your body is to gyno but even at low doses of 250mg of test and the 200mg of eq can give horrible side affects of gynecomastia so make sure you have Nolvadex on hand.

Depending on how long the cycle but if you chose to use EQ with test, no shorter than 12 weeks as EQ takes quite some time to work. During this cycle you should take small weekly doses of 500ui perr week after the 3rd/4th week.

After the cycle I prefer to use nolva over clomid for PCT as I find its more affective aswell as that you need such high doses of clomid to have similar affects as that of tamoxifen. the only side affect I find while on nolva is slightly blury vision so you can take the tablet at night.

please do note nolva is very toxic, so you want don't want to use it for to long...

make sure while on the cycle that you overhydrate yourself, as the stored water in your body is putting allot of strain on the kidneys filtration.

monitor your bp during this cycle, the eq has very rare side affects for high bp but test has very high affects on bp. so look after yourself, high bp causes strain on the kidneys strain on the kidneys causes strain on the heart.

Yeah dude. You need to get over the whole needle thing.

Its nothing to worry about. If you can pop your own zit you can inject.

Are you eating enough and so one? If you eating like a rabbit juice is not going to help you. You need to eat more to grow more

Spook
You say you started taking DBol at the beginning of July and then you say you've been off for a week.
So are you saying that you've been taking DBol without trainning ?

I agree with 00pump, stop taking the DBol, its going to cause you more damage than gains.

I think you have a lot of reading to do.

How tall are you ?

What's your diet like ?

stop taking dbol and get tamoxifen and clomid. Get milk thistle for liver and get some vitamin B shots. Make sure you get some kidney sups as well

High doses of Vitamin C(Im talking even 4 grams daily), tribulus extract and longfelia jack(if i spelled it right) will help or get Animal stack 2 and double dose bro. And get some ZMA too.

Heres your pct:

first week go 150 mgs of clomid with 1 tab of tamoxifen daily (Split into 3 doses).
second week stop clomid carry on 1 tab of tamoxifen daily.
third week go 100 mgs( split into 2 doses) clomid daily carry on tamoxifen daily.
You should now notice your nuts getting good size.
week four stop clomid carry on 1 tab tamoxifen daily.
If by now your nuts are not on the level carry on another week with 50 mgs of clomid + daily tamoxifen tablet.

This protocol works pretty well since you not using hcg for mantenance and you dont wanna jab.

Clomid is a GREAT ancillary drug and can be taken over a longer period of time to increse test and fertility in males that have issues. If this doesnt help you see a hormone specialist.

00pump wrote:

Also not sure how prone your body is to gyno but even at low doses of 250mg of test and the 200mg of eq can give horrible side affects of gynecomastia so make sure you have Nolvadex on hand.

Depending on how long the cycle but if you chose to use EQ with test, no shorter than 12 weeks as EQ takes quite some time to work. During this cycle you should take small weekly doses of 500ui perr week after the 3rd/4th week.

After the cycle I prefer to use nolva over clomid for PCT as I find its more affective aswell as that you need such high doses of clomid to have similar affects as that of tamoxifen. the only side affect I find while on nolva is slightly blury vision so you can take the tablet at night.

please do note nolva is very toxic, so you want don't want to use it for to long...

make sure while on the cycle that you overhydrate yourself, as the stored water in your body is putting allot of strain on the kidneys filtration.

monitor your bp during this cycle, the eq has very rare side affects for high bp but test has very high affects on bp. so look after yourself, high bp causes strain on the kidneys strain on the kidneys causes strain on the heart.

complete nonsense about nolva and clomid the substances are completely different and have a different effect on the body.. Also its his first cycle why are you even mentioning EQ to him.
First cycle should be test only.

Spook your best bet will be to inject, i also tried going oral only route and it does not work at all. Listen to the guys here on the forums they offer good advice, and PCT is crucial. My first ever proper cycle was last year and was
DBol, Testen 300 and PCT was Kessar, Winny, Clomid and letro.


week 1-10 test, 1ml every 6th day
week 1-4 DBol, 20mg daily
week 10-12, clomid 25mg daily
week 10-14, Kessar 20mg daily
week 4-8, Winstrol 20mg daily

I infact bumped up the test per week as well as the Dbol. Also i added in Letro as i know i am prone to gyno.

why is that newbies always start messing with D-bols? Dont they listen when we say they the cons outweight the pros?

Spook luister vir ons los daai tabs uit, jy weet nog te min en sodoende gaan jy jouself net in die kak kry

You have allot to learn about SERMs... They both SERMs, and all pro athelets, I can vouch have stopped using Clomid completly and only using Nolva.. please do some more research before you state something that is of truth.

thank you.

Lesa wrote:

00pump wrote:

Also not sure how prone your body is to gyno but even at low doses of 250mg of test and the 200mg of eq can give horrible side affects of gynecomastia so make sure you have Nolvadex on hand.

Depending on how long the cycle but if you chose to use EQ with test, no shorter than 12 weeks as EQ takes quite some time to work. During this cycle you should take small weekly doses of 500ui perr week after the 3rd/4th week.

After the cycle I prefer to use nolva over clomid for PCT as I find its more affective aswell as that you need such high doses of clomid to have similar affects as that of tamoxifen. the only side affect I find while on nolva is slightly blury vision so you can take the tablet at night.

please do note nolva is very toxic, so you want don't want to use it for to long...

make sure while on the cycle that you overhydrate yourself, as the stored water in your body is putting allot of strain on the kidneys filtration.

monitor your bp during this cycle, the eq has very rare side affects for high bp but test has very high affects on bp. so look after yourself, high bp causes strain on the kidneys strain on the kidneys causes strain on the heart.

complete nonsense about nolva and clomid the substances are completely different and have a different effect on the body.. Also its his first cycle why are you even mentioning EQ to him.
First cycle should be test only.

Please you have allot to learn about gear... here is an article to educate you a bit.

forum.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-forum/no...d-pct-134265879.html

the reason I said EQ as it has very few side affects half that of test... so why put somebody on a dose of test and start damage on his body? eq works slowly but consistantly...

the reason I threw in the small dose of test was to help with decreased HTPA function... doses of 250mg of test is not enough to be highly anabolic but it will help with the side affects, of impotence and low sex drive...

in future, please don't argue a point you know nothing about.

thanks!

00pump now how many of these pro athletes are doing that?clomid and nolvadex should be used with one another...they seem to do the same thing but in actual fact they work differently. here is an article by william llewellyn.

Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) Compounds that bind with estrogen receptors and exhibit estrogen action in some tissues and anti-estrogen action in other tissues. The ideal SERM would deliver all the benefits of estrogen without the adverse effects. ex: Clomiphene Citrate (Marketed as Clomid or Serophene). Tamoxifen (Marketed as Nolvadex).

Aromatise Inhibitor (AI) Aromatase inhibitors exhibit a very different mechanism of action than SERM’s. Aromatase inhibitors prevent the conversion of androgens into estrogen in fat, muscle, breast, and brain. ex: Anastrazole (brand name Arimidex). FEMARA (letrozole tablets).

NOTE: Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.

SERM:
Clomid, stimulates the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that
a faster and higher release of follicle stimulating hormone aud
luteinizing hormone occurs. This results in an increase of the body's
own testosterone production. Clomid is a synthetic estrogen, however
it does also work as an anti-estrogen. How does it work? Because it is
a weak synthetic estrogen, it will bind to the estrogen receptor (ER)
and not cause any problems. At the same time the increase in estrogen
from steroids are blocked from attaching to the ER.

Nolvadex, is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in
all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same
type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.
It is not correct that Nolvadex reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it
blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it
is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.

so if i was these pro's i would be using both in conjunction with HCG.

BTW i am not starting an arguement of any sorts,i am just stating my views and what i have read so please if possible no scathing remarks.

djeasye wrote:

00pump now how many of these pro athletes are doing that?clomid and nolvadex should be used with one another...they seem to do the same thing but in actual fact they work differently. here is an article by william llewellyn.

Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) Compounds that bind with estrogen receptors and exhibit estrogen action in some tissues and anti-estrogen action in other tissues. The ideal SERM would deliver all the benefits of estrogen without the adverse effects. ex: Clomiphene Citrate (Marketed as Clomid or Serophene). Tamoxifen (Marketed as Nolvadex).

Aromatise Inhibitor (AI) Aromatase inhibitors exhibit a very different mechanism of action than SERM’s. Aromatase inhibitors prevent the conversion of androgens into estrogen in fat, muscle, breast, and brain. ex: Anastrazole (brand name Arimidex). FEMARA (letrozole tablets).

NOTE: Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes.

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.

SERM:
Clomid, stimulates the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that
a faster and higher release of follicle stimulating hormone aud
luteinizing hormone occurs. This results in an increase of the body's
own testosterone production. Clomid is a synthetic estrogen, however
it does also work as an anti-estrogen. How does it work? Because it is
a weak synthetic estrogen, it will bind to the estrogen receptor (ER)
and not cause any problems. At the same time the increase in estrogen
from steroids are blocked from attaching to the ER.

Nolvadex, is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in
all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same
type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.
It is not correct that Nolvadex reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it
blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it
is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.

so if i was these pro's i would be using both in conjunction with HCG.

BTW i am not starting an arguement of any sorts,i am just stating my views and what i have read so please if possible no scathing remarks.

you stated

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary.

so what does that mean? what is the point of taking clomid if you are required to take such high doses to achieve the same result... clomid is overated and a few of my friends who compete at world champs and been SA champs have educated me to stop using clomid and only use nolva.. plus another point as not to use hcg at the end of the cycle but during the cycle and pct should just be nolva...

1 of these people I speak of teaches biochemistry... i trust their view points and prefer not to get into a debate about it.. if you would like contact details to this 1 guy, id be free to give this and you can argue in depth points with one another.

www.xtraxxl.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy...clomid-nolvadex.html

There is some more info, well more peoples reports on it after the document.

Why suffer the sides of clomid if nolva does the same thing at 2 tenths of the ammount?

look when using 19nors' u shouldnt use kessar,only clomid as there are the progesterone sides u have to consider,hence the reason for clomid...

Wont deny that... but we talking about test here....

i'm not talking about Oxymetholone, Trenbolone and Nandrolone which as you stated which can cause progestrone side affects, but if we talking about progesterone then I would recomend Arimidex or Proviron or even Winstrol has been known to to work wonders 40/50mg EOD you might require to increase this dose depending on what ammounts u taking in your stack

And not sure to the truth behind it but I was allways led to believe vit B6 must be taking to help prevent progestrone sides..

I'm completely agreed on the SERMS being the same. The only difference between the two is that kessar binds much tighter.
I told myself a year ago that I would look into the progesterone and clomid debate that I heard for the time on this forum as I'm still unconvinced about it. Before that I've never believed there was any use for clomid. I hold a post graduate degree partly in Biochem so I prefer to draw my own conclusions on these topics but, I must be honest I just haven't had the time to do a proper lit search on the topic so can't really comment. But I can say I've used kessar and not clomid after a cycle that included 400mg Deca without problem. I'm not prone to gyno so not ruling out genes as a factor though.

00pump wrote:

Wont deny that... but we talking about test here....

i'm not talking about Oxymetholone, Trenbolone and Nandrolone which as you stated which can cause progestrone side affects, but if we talking about progesterone then I would recomend Arimidex or Proviron or even Winstrol has been known to to work wonders 40/50mg EOD you might require to increase this dose depending on what ammounts u taking in your stack

A-Dex will do squat for your Progesterone sides, you can take a box a day and nothing. Letro is key here. Proviron is a very mild anti-e and will also not help, winny will only slow the conversion down, not mitigate it. All you doing is to prolong the conversion, Letro Bro, nothing like it for progesterone and parlodel if you start lactating.

Yep. Letro is the bee's knees

Well the articles on the net support your theory pump. I must be honest i havent read on that as Im still old school where clomid was used regularly in pct in conjuncture with tamoxifen and still is. I was a pro athlete and many of my mates still are and we all still use clomid regularely, although none of us are bodybuilders. Maybe we all outdated but i will still always add clomid cause quite honestly it makes my nuts very plump just on its own.

As for the guy who weighs 66 kgs and is going to do his first cycle i really dont see why the hell would he need EQ with his test. He would put on like 15 kgs just from 1 sus ampule per week for like 8 weeks so why even waste time with long EQ cycle.And also you said he needs to take 250 mgs of test per week for what his sex drive?what are you on about he will grow just from that 250 mgs of cypionate as his receptors are very fresh. If its only for his sex drive he can shoot 1 amp of testoviron per month not per week.

But those articles about tamoxifen/clomid debate are new to me so thanks for poiniting that out.

<quote>

Use with non-aromatising steroids
If progesterone requires oestrogen presence to activate it, then one method of avoiding this would be to use the progestins in stacks with non-aromatising steroids. Amazingly heavy androgenic steroids like Anadrol and Trenbolone are exceptionally mild and safe with regard to female characteristics when used in conjunction with non-aromatising steroids like Primobolan or Winstrol. This is great news for the gyno-prone individual who has previously avoided these stronger steroids for fear of gyno development. A simple stack of Anadrol and Primobolan will go along way to packing on some serious mass without the worry of developing gyno.

Competitive Aromatase Inhibitors
If aromatising steroids are to be included in the stack with progestagenic steroids, then the concurrent use of Competitive Aromatase Inhibitors, like Arimidex or Proviron, would also seem a sensible option. These can be incorporated to keep oestrogen levels low and avoid the activation of the progesterone. Although they will not help with already developed progesterone induced gyno, they can certainly be employed to avoid its development. As usual, the amount of aromatase inhibitor required increases with increasing dose of aromatising steroids used, but the best dose is still the minimum amount that can be got away with to produce the desired effect.

Winstrol
The use of Winstrol is also an effective method of controlling progesterone-induced gyno, as it is anti-progestagenic. An effective dose appears to be in the vicinity of 50mg eod (depot) or 30 to 35mg/day (tabs) although this dose may require increasing depending on the doses being employed in the stack.

One important point worth mentioning is, although generally the progestins do not aromatise, there is an exception to this rule: Deca, as well as being a progestin also aromatises, only very slightly, but nevertheless, still does to some extent. Although this is not nearly enough to cause the large majority any problems at all, for those extremely sensitive to gyno, this small amount of aromatisation to oestrogen can be enough of an elevation to activate the progesterone. Very few people are likely to suffer this, but we feel it is a point worth mentioning.

</quote>

I will agree with you nothing comes close to Letro, but these substances have been shown to prove positive results...