Dear Admin
Thank you for asking me to review and comment on the new fat burner Fat Furnace Fifteen, or so called 3F. I received a sample two weeks back – the unit was not damaged and all seemed to be in order. I will give you my comments on it, as well as comment on some of the issues raised in the string on your pages that is currently discussing the product.
The bottle presents itself as very professional-looking. I have not seen this quality in neither label, nor packaging, at all amongst most of the internet orderable fat burners. Law surrounding the labelling of neutraceuticals, has changed tremendously the last few years – there are now minimum criteria to which products should hold themselves to – I “tested” 3F’s label against the minimum criteria and it did not fail any of the these criteria. The bottle’s seal was intact and the capsules, once thrown out from the bottle, were all intact. Capsules were nicely polished and the correct amount of capsules was in the container. They had a bit of a strong odour to them – I will comment on this later.
It states clearly on the label that it should be taken in the mornings on empty stomach or with food. Now, I have been consulting as Medical Adviser to a number of companies over the years, all of them making use of one or the other type of herbal formulations. I have come to learn through experience that most individuals are sensitive to herbal formulations taken on empty stomachs. I would suggest that every user of 3F try and see whether they can tolerate the formulation on an empty stomach or not – if you do experience any nausea or slight burning on the stomach, it is an indicator that you fall into the herbal sensitive group and you should then rather take it with food. The label also states further not to take other fat burners along with the 3F – I will clarify this later on what precisely is being meant with that.
This formulation consists of a number of Chinese herbal substances…. At first glance it is a very well put together formula. Someone somewhere with a hell of a lot of knowledge formulated this thing. It is very obvious that this was not concocted in someone’s kitchen. A lot of thought have obviously gone into this, as the herbals complement each other nicely in synergism. Now, when it comes to Chinese herbs, there are herbs and there herbs! Herbals work differently to what laboratory medicines work – the latter does get produced from original herbal extracts initially, but then gets refined tremendously to develop great affinity for specific receptors. In fat burner types of medicines, the pharmaceutical-grade substances very quickly can lead to receptor down-regulation, as we have come to see with ephedrine for instance – just one dose of pure ephedrine, and receptors can be down-regulated by as much as 60%. Though genetic predisposition does play an important role, receptor down-regulation with herbals, take much longer and is very subtle. But it still happens….that is why continuous use without some form of receptor rehabilitation when using herbals, will eventually lead to hitting some level of plateau. There are a number of ways in which this receptor down-regulation can be prevented:
- One can cycle the use of the herbals. Here again it is highly individualised – I have through years of experience seen that most people will need a break of herbal ingestion for about 10-14 days somewhere between 8-12 weeks of continuous use.
- One can use ketotifen, a rather old antihistamine used in prevention of eczema and asthma in kids. The down side of this meds is that it makes you sleepy, is kind of expensive, and gives one an appetite – not what you want when using a fat burner!
- One can cyclically use diphenhydramine – the component in BetaSleep capsules. This actually helps with the side effect of insomnia due to the use of a product like 3F. It is usually taken every second to third week as 50-100mg (one to two capsules) for 7 consecutive days. I usually would suggest females take the one capsule dose and males the higher dose.
In the case of using 3F, I would suggest using the BetaSleep in combination with it, especially if you would want to use the product long-term and want to optimize the products potential to do what it was designed to do.
Furthermore, I have noticed in the discussion string on your web pages that someone commented on it as being a fairly expensive product. It may look so at first glance, but one should consider the number of herbals in the product, as well as the quality of the individual herbals. I have seen a number of herbal mixtures out there that have way less number of herbs in them, costing a lot more money.
Here is an important tip about herbal content quality (and please remember that high quality herbals don’t come cheap at all!):
Always look at the number of herbs versus the milligram dosage amount – if the number of herbals is low, and the milligrams are high, it is most probably either poor quality herbals used, or totally over-dosed kitchen-concocted stuff that will give you side effects. If I read the comments and results what have been discussed on your pages, as well as what I have documented so far in individuals using 3F (will get to that info in a second), I can only come to the conclusion that the manufacturers of 3F use top-end quality herbal content in this product (again: number of herbals versus milligram dosage versus effectiveness in outcome versus minimal side effects).
Some individual commented on halitosis and another on foul-smelling faeces….I do not find these benign side effects odd at all. Remember I commented on the odd smell of the capsules when I opened it? Right, we all use herbs in our foods, don’t we? Stuff that has strong smells and tastes to it, like origanum and garlic – to enhance the food’s taste. Well, these types of kitchen herbs are not that much dissimilar than the herbals used in formulations such as 3F. So, why would the herbal content in 3F not change the odours of your breath, sweat and stools? Obviously it would! Just be preventative about it. You would not eat spoons full of garlic and not take at least some parsley or Clorerts with it, would you? Another thing to keep in mind, is that 3F will suppress appetite – thus, you will be “using” your mouth less and that will give less production of saliva and lead to bacterial overgrowth, causing bad breath. Just keep drinking regular water. Furthermore, lipolysis leads to ketogenesis – the production of these ketones will also contribute to the halitosis.
A number of users have commented on the increase in energy levels whilst training. This could be expected – looking closer at the individual content, there are a number of different herbals in this product that activates almost all the different energy pathways in the body. Beta-stimulation is apparent; I notice some alpha adrenergic agonist in there; thyroid output improvement; testosterone stimulation and anabolism; beta-oxidative pathway stimulation; a number of co-factors in Krebs Cycle….. One ought to have improvement in energy output, and even some cognitive function improvement. If you don’t, then there is something wrong with you, or you just fall into that small group of individuals that just don’t respond to herbal products.
One individual commented on the tyrosine in the product and insulin spiking. Well, most people make way too much of this “insulin spiking” phenomenon. To understand how metabolic pathways work, one needs to look at the hormonal response in candescence to an exercise bout. At rest, glucose production from the liver is controlled by stable levels of glucagon. As exercise bout initiates, glucagon will increase releasing more glucose from glycogen stores, as well as starting to initiate new glucose production from amino acids. At this stage, plasma levels of glucose can raise as much as by 50%. Epinephrine and Norepinephrine levels also raise now and this maintains constant output of glucose by the liver. At this stage, the muscle cells are fuelled by their own stored glycogen. The thyroid hormones play the most important part in this glucose usage. At some stage, this will deplete to a level where it should be supplemented by glucose circulating in the plasma. It is at this stage where insulin starts transporting glucose towards the muscle cells. Essential BCAA are now being released into the circulation by the effect of cortisol – the latter causes protein catabolism in order to achieve two goals – freeing the amino acids as an alternative source for production of new glucose, and secondly the amino acid release sensitises the insulin receptors on the muscle cell membranes – thus rendering the insulin to be working more efficient. This actually DECREASES the amount of insulin release from the pancreas’s beta-cells, as less of the now more effective-working insulin is needed. Thus, amino acid release causes the opposite of an insulin spike during bouts of exercise. At this stage, Growth Hormone is also released and starts freeing up Free Fatty Acids for beta-oxidation. All this happens within 5-20 min of exercise, depending at the intensity level of the exercise. Now, many a scientific study have shown that exercise intensity can be enhanced with BCAA ingestion within a few minutes before exercise, as well as carbohydrate assimilation from the gut and greater transport thereof, by the simultaneous ingestion of free form amino acids – hence the large number of post-workout drinks containing hydrolysed whey and carbohydrate mixtures.
Now, one may ask where does this all fit in with the tyrosine question? Very simply put – one cannot take just one hormone out of the metabolic pathway and try and relate the ingestion of tyrosine to that hormone alone – you need to look at the influence of tyrosine on the WHOLE metabolic pathway. It has been placed in 3F obviously for increasing the effectiveness of insulin, as well as a supplemental substrate to increase the production of thyroid hormones, as decreased calorie intake during periods of fasting or dieting will through the process of negative feedback, decrease thyroid hormone production, slowing metabolism.
About the increase in urinary output…. One of the herbals in 3F acts as a diuretic, stimulating urinary output and the shedding of unwanted metabolic water – remember that water and carbon-dioxide are produced as waste products during increased cellular metabolism. We have just spoken about the 3F increasing metabolism in general – hence the greater heat production and water production from the increased metabolic rate. That is why you will actually feel warm using the product. And due to increased water from metabolism, as well as water freed from the fat tissue breakdown, you will sweat more and urinate more. That water has to go somewhere? This probably is why a mild herbal diuretic has been added to the formula. I don’t think that the diuresis will be a permanent effect to the extent of which it is during the initial weeks of using the product. Once your body has “settled” into its new metabolic gear and less brown adipose tissue is hanging around, one should probably start voiding less urine as compared to initially.
Before I continue to share some results and statistics with you, I will need to clarify a few things first. As a registered Sports Physician, it will be unethical for me to prescribe or even suggest the use of any product that may lead to a positive adverse analytical finding in an anti-doping test. Yohimbine and Tribulus have been placed on WADA’s watch list for quite some time now, accompanied with the warning of possible positive testing. 3F contains both these two herbal substances – I can thus only speculate that this is why the product carries the warning against its use where positive dope testing may be a problem. Furthermore, the information I will now provide you, is purely observational and to provide some insight into possible results when the product is used properly. None of these individual cases had 3F prescribed or provided to them by myself.
Case nr. 1
Ex-competitive body builder of 44yr age. 3F taken last 2 weeks. Initial weight 116kg at 10,7% Body Fat (7 skin fold BF measurement). Thus lean mass = 103,6kg and fat mass = 12,4kg. Last two weeks only 4 gym sessions. Current weight 113,6kg at 9,5% BF. Lean mass = 102,8kg and fat mass = 10,8kg.Loss of 800gr lean mass and 1,6kg fat mass. Length of 1,87m and initial BMI of 33,17.
Case nr. 2
40yr old female of 1,72m. Presents with premature ovarian failure and menopause. Subsequent weight gain last two years of 20kg. Initial weight 86kg with BMI of 29. After 11 days on 3F, weight loss of 2kg.
Case nr. 3
Female athlete of 42yr age. Following more or less structured diet, currently only engaging in some aerobic exercise of 20min sessions 2-3 times per week. Initial weight 67,6 kg at 16,1% BF – thus lean mass of 56, 7kg and fat mass of 10,9kg. Current weight after two weeks on 3F is still 67,6kg, but BF dropped to 14,66% with lean mass of 57,7kg and fat mass of 9,9kg. Body changes show lean mass gain of 1,1kg and fat loss of 1kg. Length of 1,71m and initial BMI = 23,1.
Case nr. 4
Patient with discus herniation of lower back. Initial weight 127,1kg with length of 1,88m and BMI = 35,96. Due to back problem currently 100% limited in engaging in exercise. Day 3 on 3F.
Case nr.5
Female athlete preparing for Figure line-up late October this year. Current weight of 51,9kg, length of 1,68m and BMI = 18,39. Initial BF of 14,88% with lean mass of 44,2kg and fat mass of 7,7kg. Only engaged in aerobic form exercises last two weeks to obtain cardiovascular fitness first. After 12 days of 3F current weight still at 51,9kg with BF at 14,66% - lean mass of 44,3kg and fat mass of 7,6kg. During this period mid-section dropped 2cm and both quad circumferences gained 1,5cm each. Eventual aim for competition will be BF close to 10% and weight at 54-55kgs. She plans to add the 3F into her female stack as part of her pre-contest prep. Her prep will by then entail the following:
Mornings:
- One LP’s Female Stack cap.
- Three of the 3F caps.
- T3 ½ dose of 20mcg tab.
- Tamoxifen 10mg tab.
- Clenbuterol dose of max 30mcg.
Afternoons:
- One LP’s Female Stack cap.
- Yohimbine HCl (LP’s) 5mg cap (reserved for ketogenic diet phase).
- Clenbuterol dose of max 30mcg.
- T3 ½ dose of 20mcg tab (depending on condition close to show).
She might consider Primobolan Depot at 50mg weekly IMI dosages if the lean mass accrual is not adequate at nine weeks out from her show. The Clenbuterol will be used more for its slow long-term lean mass accrual, than for its fat loss effects. This will be incrementally titrated slowly upwards from onset doses of as little as 10mcg daily.
Case nr. 6
Current competitive body builder that won his division over the last weekend. Worried about making his category weight and will use 3F to control appetite during next 4 weeks.
As you can notice from the above case studies’ statistics, different types of profiles, respond quite differently to 3F. I think that genetic predisposition is the main factor here, but very importantly is the type of exercise protocols you follow, as well as how well structured your diet is. I can only predict that the best results on 3F will be in the case profile that engages in regular resistance training and some level of aerobic exercise, combined with a well organised ketogenic type of diet (high protein and moderate to high vegetable fat intake). This product is not intended for the individual wanting to engage in bulking up for whatever reason may be, even despite using AAS simultaneously. Also of note is that the biggest changes happen in those case profiles that have the higher BMI values – refer to the case with the very low BMI of 18,4 – but even despite this case’s low BMI, there were still anthropometric changes (body composition and circumference changes).
On the subject of body composition changes…. We need to clear something up about this. Many females, when consulting me on fat loss, do not want to engage in weight training in the fear of looking masculine. This is the biggest mistake anyone can do when attempting to diet. Lean muscle mass is the body’s metabolic active tissue – the “furnace” so to speak where all nutrients are “burnt” to produce ATP. Fat tissue is actually a very inactive store with a low metabolic rate. If you “crash diet” (as so many females love to do!), one will actually lose both types of tissue. If the diet is severely calorie restricted, stress hormones are released and fat stores are protected at the cost of lean mass loss. Metabolically you are worse off, as your “furnace capacity” has now shrunk! You end up still looking flabby and soft, despite weighing less. If I have a look at the early statistics in body composition changes I see in the cases I am observing, it looks like 3F will have some “tipping point” – initially you may hang on to the lean mass, or even increase it slightly, but the rate of fat loss should increase as the ratio of fat mass versus lean mass slowly changes more positively. I would even go as far as to predict that the best results with this product will probably be observed during its second to third month of continuous use.
As can be noticed from the planned female stack, other fat burners can be used in combination with 3F, but – and here is where the “big but” lies in – I would not suggest in doing so, if you are not an seasoned athlete with enough knowledge to know what you are doing. Furthermore, the one thing I would want to stress to the users of 3F not to engage in, is the simultaneous use of other herbal substances. It is very clear to me that 3F’s herbal formula is already very potent as is.
If one look at the effects 3F elicits, the product might just end up as being a multi-purpose product. It is obvious that 3F is intended for the fat loss market, but I can also see it being used by body builders especially in their last 4-6 weeks prior to shows – this is for most body builders a very tough time, as aerobic intensity and quantity rapidly increases, calories decrease too, and general fatigue sets in during the ketogenic dieting phases so many body builders have come to use over the years. 3F might just be the answer to curtail those carbohydrate cravings and lift those lagging energy levels. Also to consider, is the use of 3F for the first 4-6 weeks after the show – in order to prevent a too rapid weight gain and to assist the metabolism and water control in the body, whilst the AAS is slowly excreted from the system. By the time the sensible body builder hits his PCT protocol, his fat % should still be low and lean mass post-competition well protected. I think 3F would actually act as a nice bridging compound for this period leading up to PCT.
I hope that I have adequately clarified some issues surrounding not just 3F, but any herbal product out there. I will continue to monitor my current cases and pass the changing statistics on to you.
I hope everyone that I know from my past interactions on your web pages, are still keeping well. I see some old names still commenting after years – and some chaps are still passing hilarious remarks as they did years ago!
Regards
Doctari
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