Hand gun

Hey Gents

I'm looking at getting a new handgun, I've currently got an old Walther PPK and a 9mm browning that I plan on getting rid of and upgrading to something a bit newer and more reliable that I can carry on me.
Being in the Jewellery and Diamond bussiness things are getting a bit hairy never mind the rest of the country heading towards a dictatorship..!

I was thinking about the Walther p99 40 cal ,a glock 22/27 or even a Sig sauer.
I don't mind a 9mm round either.

Any suggestions? Thanks

Nothing wrong with modern 9mm ammo.
Compact guns can be a mission to shoot well.
So I'd go with the biggest you can comfortably carry & conceal.
I carry a Glock 17 with +2 mag shoes with no issue concealing.
I've also carried a Glock 21 & a STI Edge concealed (both Hi-cap .45 cal)
What I'm saying is get a gun you can really grip properly & shoot well.

From a function POV, Glock or S&W M&P.

The M&P has better ergonomics for me, but I've used Glocks for many years so I've stuck with it.
For reliability with striker fired pistols, avoid hard primers (PMP) you will get soft strikes (dented primer no bang)

Also go easy on the oil. Just a tiny bit where it counts and they will run like a machine.

Remember its not a magic wand or mythical death ray, it's just a tool.
Using the tool properly & effectively is a martial art!!!

Proper training & practice are required.
Just look out for the GV / rambo wanna be types.

thats good advice Oupiel

I sold my cz years ago, safety catch issues, jamming etc. Never regretted my. 357 magnum. Only problem is trying to conceal the mother at a five inch Barrell. Compensator helps with kick back. Winchester holo points in that baby. Love it. Prefer revolvers. Oupiel/ dirty harry, I expected revolver from you

Thanks Gents

Ye my Brother in law owns a fire arm training centre and gun shop so I have done some tactical training. I think I'll go and shoot some different guns over the weekend before making up my mind.
The Glock 19 looks like a really prctical option to.

FIllet wrote: Oupiel/ dirty harry, I expected revolver from you

I love revolvers, esp. a Colt Python - simply beautiful!

But when it comes to a fighting tool, the modern pistol wins hands down (unless you're Jerry Miculek)

Speaking of, the CZ 75 had to be one of the most ergonomic best fits out there.
With a little work by a good smith, I'd grab a CZ any day.

Note: I also tweak my glocks extensively for fit, function & reliability.

Let's not kid around. If you fire a weapon you want whomever it hits to go down.
When it comes to stopping power nothing beats a .45

I have seen plenty vids and talked to enough ex cops who have shot multiple rounds and a guy still fires back.

No matter where you klap an oke with a .45 he is going down. Most CBM shots wil be fatal especially if using black talons or similar.

Cyclo wrote: Let's not kid around. If you fire a weapon you want whomever it hits to go down.
When it comes to stopping power nothing beats a .45

I have seen plenty vids and talked to enough ex cops who have shot multiple rounds and a guy still fires back.

No matter where you klap an oke with a .45 he is going down. Most CBM shots wil be fatal especially if using black talons or similar.

Shot placement is always going to be the most important factor. A 9mm is more acurate and has a much bigger capacity plus the 9mm rounds have come a long way in reasont times hence them being used by nearly all police forces.

If you can put someone down with a 9mm you failed not the gun and you probably would have completely missed the target had you taken that same shot with a .45

Rhino is right, with modern ammo, the facts & stats have ended the debate.
There isn't any meaningful difference in the various useful handgun calibers.
the difference in effectiveness comes with moving to rifles & shotguns.

What is different, is that most people shoot a 9mm better than they do .40s & .45s.
Even well trained & experienced shooters.

So may as well go 9mm and top up ammo.
Also, 9mm is cheaper to keep shooting.

I have a CZ75 P07 duty. Best 9mm handgun IMO. Super reliable and v accurate, with the best ergonomics.

I would stay away from a 40cal. If you do plan on going down range to practise and shoot some rounds, it becomes v expensive v quickly.

I keep it simple. 7shot .357 suits me

CZ 85 Combat

Very happy with my CZ P07 gen2 (9mm) excellent grip and concealability.

The whole "stopping power" argument is irrelevant, so don't even let anyone talk that rubbish into your head. NO round will put someone on their ass because then you as the shooter will also be on your ass, simple physics - Newtons 3rd law, deal with it. Shot placement is all that matters.

WRT the 9mm vs 40 debate, there's a reason the FBI has transitioned to 9mm... more rounds, less felt recoil, similar penetration, cheaper to shoot etc. Nice bit of reading here: loadoutroom.com/12077/fbi-going-9mm-comes-science/

End of the day you need to get something that YOU are comfortable with. Sounds like you're in a great position to try several different firearms, so this will be key.

If you like Walther, have a look at the S&W SW99, it's a collaboration between Walther and S&W
Also S&W M&P Shield is a great little gun.

If you want to be a sheep, get a Glock :whistle: great weapons, but fugly IMHO.

l1qu1d wrote: If you want to be a sheep, get a Glock :whistle: great weapons, but fugly IMHO.

Fugly nothing!!!

All they gonna see is the flash anyway :evil:

Say cheese!!

have carried my trusty CZ for nearly 25 years now. Never let me down. Loaded with Speer Gold Dots. Not exactly a cannon, but it's done the trick for me a few times. Last time I came across a truck being hijacked in the Chalumna pass near East London - few rounds bounced off the tar sorted that out

All of this firearm talk is getting me excited to start the process of getting one. Sorry if this is derailing the thread but how long has it taken you guys to get your licenses from start to finish?

Hormonas wrote: All of this firearm talk is getting me excited to start the process of getting one. Sorry if this is derailing the thread but how long has it taken you guys to get your licenses from start to finish?

Your looking at 6 to 9 weeks

@ Rhino,

So how did the recoil therapy go this weekend?
Did you have too much fun and confuse yourself & now you want all of them?

any decisions?

Oupiel wrote: @ Rhino,

So how did the recoil therapy go this weekend?
Did you have too much fun and confuse yourself & now you want all of them?

any decisions?

I didn't have chance to go Bud. I had to go to a kiddies party with my Son instead :lol:
I'm booked to go through this Saturday though.

Rhino wrote: Your looking at 6 to 9 weeks

Good lawd, in a perfect world maybe. The CFR now has 91 bussiness days to give you an answer on your license(s) and then you have to wait how ever long for a letter if it gets turned down (rather reapply than appeal)

Hormonas wrote: All of this firearm talk is getting me excited to start the process of getting one. Sorry if this is derailing the thread but how long has it taken you guys to get your licenses from start to finish?

I've been waiting for two section 15 licenses since March, still in consideration.
If you have to wait for your competency it'll be on the longer side of 91 business days.

Proficiency goes as fast as you can study, for section 13 you need 1 law module and 1 firearm module. Once you've done your training and practical shooting you complete an open and closed book exam for each module. You add another module for shotgun; rifle; carbine etc. So I would say do law, pistol, shotgun and rifle all in one go.

tldr;

1. Complete your proficiency (classroom, study, practical, exams about R2000 for law + 3x firearms)
2. Do your competency (fingerprints etc. R70 + photos, id copies etc)
3. Purchase your firearm of choice
4. Apply and motivate your application for the firearm (R140 per license)
5. Competency approved
6. License approved
7. Wait for license card to be printed
8. Collect card
9. Collect firearm

l1qu1d wrote: I've been waiting for two section 15 licenses since March, still in consideration.
If you have to wait for your competency it'll be on the longer side of 91 business days.

Proficiency goes as fast as you can study, for section 13 you need 1 law module and 1 firearm module. Once you've done your training and practical shooting you complete an open and closed book exam for each module. You add another module for shotgun; rifle; carbine etc. So I would say do law, pistol, shotgun and rifle all in one go.

tldr;

1. Complete your proficiency (classroom, study, practical, exams about R2000 for law + 3x firearms)
2. Do your competency (fingerprints etc. R70 + photos, id copies etc)
3. Purchase your firearm of choice
4. Apply and motivate your application for the firearm (R140 per license)
5. Competency approved
6. License approved
7. Wait for license card to be printed
8. Collect card
9. Collect firearm

Thank you for all of that information. It's a long process to go through but it's worth it I'm sure.

My Brother in law hooked me up quickly with my Walther last year and has said it'll be less than 2 months this time around again.
He does do most of the SAPS training so maybe he's just connected.?

Rhino wrote: My Brother in law hooked me up quickly with my Walther last year and has said it'll be less than 2 months this time around again.
He does do most of the SAPS training so maybe he's just connected.?

Any chance he could nudge my applications along? The wait is killing me. :dry:

I'm sure he could have if you had have done your training and test with him. He's based in Centurion.
He's a bit of an Ass clown but he has to be nice to me as he's married to my Sister :lol:

Here's a nice breakdown of the time frame of the application, remember by court order they have to give you a 'Yes' or 'No' within 90 business days.

The letter circulated 29.05.2012 hereunder.


The 90 days period is unpacked as follows:

Station Level
The applications received by various stations must be forwarded to the Provincial Office within six (6) weeks after being captured on the system.

Provincial Level
After receiving of applications from stations the Province must conduct a quality check and the applications must be forwarded to Central Firearm Register within two (2) weeks after receipt from the station with a forwarding schedule.

Central Firearm Register
Applications received at Central Firearms Register must be finalized within four (4) weeks after receipt from the Province.

Approved applications - Card Printed
Refused applications - Refusal Letter (Typed)

All printed cards must be collected from the Central Firearms Register within two (2) weeks after being finalized by Central Firearms Register and the cards must be collected or delivered within two (2) weeks after being finalized by Central Firearms Register or Provincial Office.

All refusal letters must be posted within two (2) weeks after being finalized by Central Firearms Register.

Where an applicant or non-official institution collected his/her card(s) from Central Firearms Register, the relevant Section Commander from Central Firearms Register must be notify the relevant Provincial Commander in writing in order to close off the SAPS 86 register.