500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!

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11 Oct 2018 09:59 #217889 by JackSilver
Replied by JackSilver on topic 500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!
I really have no idea what to make of it...
When I convert 131 pmol/L it converts to 35.68 pg/ml
From what I understand by my google fu, it might be a bit high? I have no idea what the reference ranges are or mean.

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11 Oct 2018 10:31 - 11 Oct 2018 10:45 #217890 by JackSilver
Replied by JackSilver on topic 500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!
Seems I have the conversions all messed up.
Last edit: 11 Oct 2018 10:45 by JackSilver.

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  • Mfezdro
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11 Oct 2018 12:36 - 11 Oct 2018 12:36 #217892 by Mfezdro
No it looks right to me. From what I have researched the "ideal" E range is 22-25 pg/ml. The would be around 90pmol/l. So your reading is a little out of this but I don't think enough to make you feel terrible.

Your free test is way high, obviously due to the cycle. Your SHBG looks about right. From this you should be feeling good. Has anything changed since you last posted?

My comments are not advice, medical or otherwise. I am not a medical practitioner. Always consult your Doctor before making decisions.
Last edit: 11 Oct 2018 12:36 by Mfezdro. Reason: Addition.
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11 Oct 2018 12:56 #217893 by JackSilver
Replied by JackSilver on topic 500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!
Thank you for chiming in Mfezdro.

I feel like I might have caused some confusion between my first post and the later posts. Let me clear up.

My first original post was regarding test flu. I felt annihilated after about 4-5 weeks into my cycle. That went away which I will attribute to introducing a foreign substance to my body it tried to fight off.

Around week 5/6 until now which is the end of week 7, emotionally and mentally I feel 100%.
Physically though I have pins and needles in my hands and numbness in my fingers. My hands feel tight as fuck with shooting pains in my arms and pains in my inner elbows. There's alot of joint clicking and popping going on in my tendons. Bones just feel brittle and its a sensation I can only describe in my hands as if rubber bands were put around your wrists and the hand being restricted of blood.

Due to this there's no strength in most of my movements, specifically presses.

A simple search on google has a lot of women especially reporting these symptoms when they are giving Arimidex due to breast cancer. I mean it's literally being written about everywhere. So if it's not a direct symptom of my E2 levels I'm left to think I need to hydrate more and look at more fats or it's a symptom of Arimidex that has nothing to do with E levels.

I'm running out of ideas here.

I am in agreement with your statement on my E2 levels. Acceptable ranges in adult men looks to be at 10-40 pg/ml with mine at 35.68 pg/ml. Higher E2 should assist with water retention and lubrication in the joints so it's not due to that.

I wish I had a solid read on my total test. No idea why that test only measured up to where it did, but my free test level at least has me confident that the gear is not bunk.

I was going to do a 12 week cycle, but might cut it to 10 weeks, allow me to get off Adex and see if these symptoms go away. If so I'll probably try a different AI.

I am however considering dropping the Adex for a week. Since I took it from day 1 of my cycle I'm not sure if I should have as I might not have needed it. Or else maybe just halving the dose?

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  • Muscleaddict
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11 Oct 2018 13:05 - 11 Oct 2018 13:06 #217894 by Muscleaddict
Replied by Muscleaddict on topic 500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!
The ideal E2 range is different when you are on gear because the T:E ratio is more important that the actual number.

So your E2 would be higher than ideal for someone with normal total T, but for your high T level your E2 is actually not high at all and could even be a bit higher. You wouldn't want it lower than that now.

But the blood tests won't necessarily give an accurate picture if you've been playing around with your AI dose in the days before the blood test. So it's quite possible your E2 was too not long before the test if that is the case.

Your Total T does not add up for 500mg/week test E. Dodgy brand?
Last edit: 11 Oct 2018 13:06 by Muscleaddict.
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11 Oct 2018 15:10 - 11 Oct 2018 15:11 #217895 by JackSilver
Replied by JackSilver on topic 500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!

Muscleaddict wrote: But the blood tests won't necessarily give an accurate picture if you've been playing around with your AI dose in the days before the blood test. So it's quite possible your E2 was too not long before the test if that is the case.

Your Total T does not add up for 500mg/week test E. Dodgy brand?


I did not mess with the AI dose yet...
I've been taking 0.5mg EOD. However today was suppose to be my next dose, but I'm going to halve it and go with 0.25mg EOD.

As for the Total T, it seems the test Lancet does can only read up to >52.1 nmol/L which is about 1500 ng/dl according to the lady on the phone. In the states it's the ECLIA test for TT <1500 and then theres a LC/MS for TT > 1500. Lady over the phone said Lancet does not offer the test for TT over >1500

So yes, I still have no idea what my total TT is or where to test it.
Last edit: 11 Oct 2018 15:11 by JackSilver.

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11 Oct 2018 16:11 #217896 by Muscleaddict
Replied by Muscleaddict on topic 500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!
I'm getting rusty. The regular tests by all of these pathcare/lancet type pathology labs only test TT to 1500ng/dl. There is a very expensive LCMS assay test for testing very high levels.

I reckon you'll much better on the lower AI dose.
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11 Oct 2018 17:03 #217897 by Mfezdro
Your symptoms sound like low E but the given reading shouldn’t get you those symptoms. Like MA says though, figures are set, each persons reaction to the levels is different. I also agree with MA that you’ll feel better if you reduce the AI. Adex destroyed my E, it’s mighty powerful magic. Reduce the dose and give it a couple weeks.

I also think sometimes it’s pretty easy to overthink this stuff. Not that you should ignore what your body tells you but you can over analyze each symptom and assign it to something. I wouldn’t rush into cutting the cycle just yet if your results are going well. Having said that if you are convinced there’s a problem rather stop, do a proper PCT, recover and look again in a few months. Good luck.

My comments are not advice, medical or otherwise. I am not a medical practitioner. Always consult your Doctor before making decisions.
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11 Oct 2018 18:12 #217898 by Oupa

Muscleaddict wrote: I'm getting rusty. The regular tests by all of these pathcare/lancet type pathology labs only test TT to 1500ng/dl. There is a very expensive LCMS assay test for testing very high levels.

I reckon you'll much better on the lower AI dose.


I agree
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11 Oct 2018 18:42 #217899 by JackSilver
Replied by JackSilver on topic 500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!
Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.

I'll continue with the cycle, lower the Ai dose and continue to workout around these issues, even if it means I'm not going to pack on weight onto the bars. I've managed a solid 10KG's in the first 7 weeks which I'm already happy with. While I know it's not all muscle I'd gauge about half of it at least is. I've definitely been getting a lot more compliments in public even though my lifts lately make me feel like a total bitch in the gym.

With 5 weeks left on cycle I hope I can squeeze a week or two out where I feel like I did in week 4, which was amazingly primal. I'll definitely hang about and come back to this thread to update you guys.

What I will take away from this is that AI's, especially Arimidex is not just some preventative thing you take. They're clearly very strong and can come with a great deal of side effects.
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12 Oct 2018 20:53 - 12 Oct 2018 20:56 #217902 by JackSilver
Replied by JackSilver on topic 500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!
So today was 4 days since my last dose of 0.5mg of Adex. I took a dose of 0.25mg this morning and my workout today was a fuck ton better from anything I had in the last 3 weeks. I think I am extremely responsive to Adex and a 0.5mg dose just rains on my parade.

While there's still a lot of nonsense going on in my arms I decided to drop the ego lifting weights and opted for something new. I literally left home and said "fuck it" lets do something totally different.

I ended up with a chest day:

10 x 15 Bench
5 x 15 Incline Bench
5 X 15 Cable Crossovers

While the weight was moderate I actually had a great workout and left feeling satisfied unlike the last couple of workouts where I wasn't even sure what I was doing in the gym. My libido has also picked up. I seriously hope any new guys who find this thread learns something from my experience with Adex. THE BRO SCIENCE on the web is strong. 0.5MG EOD for the sake of preventative measures will destroy you. People should really start mild cycles off without it.

Muscleaddict wrote: The ideal E2 range is different when you are on gear because the T:E ratio is more important that the actual number.


This comment has been stuck in my mind regarding the T:E ratio. Is there anyone who could elaborate on this? It makes total sense on face value and leaves me not understanding why "broscience" suggests 22-25 pg/ml being the ideal range while on cycle. This is probably ideal for a natural individual but would not be true if the T:E ratio is more important than the actual numbers as test is elevated.
Last edit: 12 Oct 2018 20:56 by JackSilver.

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  • Morrgear
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13 Oct 2018 05:07 #217903 by Morrgear
I have read this question of the ratio before and my personal experience tells me this whole E2 issue and how you feel is very personal. If my e2 is at the upper end of the range or over I feel like crap, can’t get it up etc. . I need mine to be right at the lower limit of the range to feel good - for me to stay there I have to take 40mg daily of Aromasin (an insanely high dose). Arimidex, letro none of them work - for me that is. This is also something that has changed over time. Wasn’t like this when I started on gear. To add to the confusion, if you on Tren and you run the e2 test at Lancet (not sure about other labs) e2 number is garbage (last time I ran test on Tren the number was 4000) - I reran it to check - same result yet felt fine on 40mg Aromasin.

Moral ofthe story, advice from all of us is fabulous to get a rough idea but at the end of the day a reference range is an average for a population, you are individual. With gear we are messing with out HPTA axis so should expect individual outcomes that may differ from the average. I may be average height and within the reference range for 95% of the population. That doesn’t make someone that’s over 2m abnormal needing surgery to correct their height problem. They are just individual. You have to figure yourself out. And it may change over time. Take someone like Skip Hill (you may or may not know who he is, google him). He had been on gear for years and years with no impact on his red blood cell count. Then it changed and he had to run at most TRT. My 10c
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