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TOPIC: Follistatex?

Follistatex? 13 Nov 2015 10:22 #192895

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Hi guys, i'm new to the forum. Here's just a little about myself... I'm 16 years old, and I have no thought of even considering anabolic steroids until I have reached my full genetic potential. I understand that my natural testosterone levels are more than enough for me to make very decent amount of gains.

These are my current stats:
Age: 16
Height: 177 cm
Weight: 76.5 kgs
BF% (rough estimate): 12 -14 %

I train 4 - 5 times a week and I do HIIT on a spinning bike 3 times a week for some extra cardio.
I've been weight training for two and a half years, but seriously for 2 years. I stay in a hostel so nutrition choices are not always the best but I manage to make do with what I have and I end up bringing lots of food from home.

I was looking through www.supplementworld.co.za/ and I came across a product called Follistatex by Evolve Nutrition, anyone heard of it, or tried it? The active ingredient is claimed to be "pure (-)-epicatechin extract" I did some research on (-)-epicatechin and theres a lot of hype about it in the states, but the thing is would something like this benefit me? Heres some more information about the product, please correct me if i'm wrong!

(-)-epicatechin is a flavanol which enhances exercise capacity in mice (i've found no reliable studies on humans). From what i've understood (-)-epicatechin decreases myostatin and increases follistatin. Myostatin is said to inhibit muscle growth and differentiation, but myostatin levels increase with age. I've read that Follistatin acts as an antagonist towards myostatin.

Would this supplement be beneficial for me? or to anyone? It seems quite legit with some good reviews. Please let me know your views and thoughts on this product.
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Follistatex? 14 Nov 2015 07:44 #192952

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Epicatechin is the Cis isomer of Green Tea Catechins. Green Tea Catechins have some amazing benefits but there is a lot to know about how they work and how to take them and what to pair them with. Do some research on GTC. That product is crazy expensive dude!
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Follistatex? 14 Nov 2015 14:05 #192960

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Hey JT25,

Welcome to the board mate! You have a fantastic attitude and stats look good for a 16 year old! Very interesting question, only saw it now, see you asked yesterday morning.
Before I get to Follistatex let's get some basics out if the way.

1) You have been lifting for 2 years and you train 4-5 weight sessions per week. What does your routine look like? Just day-to-day?
2) Good job on bringing food to res! If you have more questions on this ask hey. Like if something you get served you think is suspect, ask away. Lots of misconceptions about nutrition.
3) How's the lights-out policy at your res? Do you get enough sleep through the night? If not, consider naps. A flood of good hormonal activity with a long night's sleep, but naps can help ease stress hormones and help you recover.

Ok to the supplement question, gonna use points again because it's easy to follow.
1) Ok so (-)Epicatechin is a extract from cocoa beans (can also be isolated from GTE as Pyrogasm said above).
2) From an exercise standpoint it helps with NO2 and blood flow, their are other minor things.
3) The product is basically claiming to be a "mysotatin inhibitor and follistatin enabler" supplement.
4) Myostatin deficiency is sometimes observed in animals, they get real juicy, but in animals (cows and mice have been used as examples IRL) it is gene alteration. They are call Knockout Mice BTW. This isn't a viable option for humans. Myostatin inhibitor products have been bashed in the past.
5) This is the first time I'm seeing cocoa extract used for this purpose, a few years ago when Myostatin got attention they used brown seaweed (or something like that).
6) Follistatin binds to growth factor peptides to inhibit them. But follistatin apparently also helps in other ways to grow muscle, other than myostatin inhibition right.
7) Follistatin also associated with pituitary gland synthesis, so lower FSH.
8 ) I am really not that familiar with follistatin, but honestly I've only heard of the injectables (peptides) being used, not oral supplements like this one, said to increase follistatin. The injectables were ungodly expensive, read about people that got good strength increase, but there are totally mixed reviews and logs out there.

Ok that page on Follistatex has some info that says it's effects have been shown in a human study, is that the one you linked JT? My internet limits my display certain webpages and NCBI seems to be one.

So anyway, in my eyes:
Proven results of Myostatin inhibition working is through gene alteration. Supplements we take can impact hormones, but it's not going to rewrite your DNA. Only version that supposedly worked was injectable peptides. So yeah, sceptical as hell that this supplement is what it claims, but I'll reserve my judgement until I can see that study page.

I know I didn't give you a black/white answer, but hope I shed some light.
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Follistatex? 14 Nov 2015 14:12 #192961

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It's mostly marketing hype. You're going to get very little bang for buck out of that. Especially at your age when all your hormones are just priming to get your body in top shape. You could get much more out of R529 by spending it on whey, creatine and BCAA.
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Follistatex? 14 Nov 2015 14:28 #192962

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Muscleaddict wrote:
It's mostly marketing hype. You're going to get very little bang for buck out of that. Especially at your age when all your hormones are just priming to get your body in top shape. You could get much more out of R529 by spending it on whey, creatine and BCAA.

Well there's the short answer. :) But yeah, crazy price. But seriously 16, nail the basics, supplementation is a small fraction of the whole. But I get your reason for turning to supps, with food and training not possible to make optimal.
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Follistatex? 15 Nov 2015 09:41 #192989

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Furk wrote:
1) You have been lifting for 2 years and you train 4-5 weight sessions per week. What does your routine look like? Just day-to-day?
2) Good job on bringing food to res! If you have more questions on this ask hey. Like if something you get served you think is suspect, ask away. Lots of misconceptions about nutrition.
3) How's the lights-out policy at your res? Do you get enough sleep through the night? If not, consider naps. A flood of good hormonal activity with a long night's sleep, but naps can help ease stress hormones and help you recover.

Hey Furk! thank you so much for the reply!

1) I train each muscle group at least once a week. I group back and bi's, chest and tri's together. It's just a basic lifting routine, low reps, high intensity lifting. I include deadlifts, squats and bench press in my weekly lifting routine
2) The food we get is extremely oily, EVERYTHING is drenched in oil or butter, so i usually don't eat anything thats too oily. We don't get enough protein in our meals either. Breakfast is the only okay meal I feel i get the appropriate nutrition, its usually some sort of egg usually boiled, so when its boiled eggs I get my friends to give me theirs if they're not eating, and then i just chow the whites! along with a few wheat-bix. Once a week the breakfast is either this gravy on toast or a croissant, so I always skip that and have a dry can of tuna, a whey isolate shake and three wheat-bix. I don't have a fridge to store food. but next year i will have access to one. Also for a snack at 10:30 AM i'll have a whey concentrate shake with a spoon of peanut butter, along with a fruit, usually an apple. throughout the day I have almonds and dry goji berries just to snack on when i get hungry.
3) Our lights out time is at 22:00, but the earliest we can go to bed is at 21:20, but still its nearly impossible because the juniors are making noise or my room mate has to stay up and do work so I usually fall asleep at about 22:00, with my earplugs in! Since i'm not a senior I don't have the privilege to sleep after school in my room. I get on average 7 and a half hours of sleep every night.

Thanks for your opinion on the follistatex, its exactly what i was looking for. I was just interested to see how exactly it works and also if something like this is BS or if it would actually do what it claims.
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Follistatex? 15 Nov 2015 09:43 #192990

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Muscleaddict wrote:
It's mostly marketing hype. You're going to get very little bang for buck out of that. Especially at your age when all your hormones are just priming to get your body in top shape. You could get much more out of R529 by spending it on whey, creatine and BCAA.

Okay perfect, Thank you so much MA, thats exactly what i wanted to know. love your work ;)
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Follistatex? 15 Nov 2015 14:15 #192994

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JT25 wrote:
Thanks for your opinion on the follistatex, its exactly what i was looking for. I was just interested to see how exactly it works and also if something like this is BS or if it would actually do what it claims.

No worries, myostatin inhibitors started fascinating me when I first saw the Belgian Blues, I mean c'cmon those traps! Still find it fascinating, but there is debate that gains achieved on peptide myostatin inhibitors are kept when off cycle. Like I said very mix bunch of views and reviews.


1) So you do a 3 day split then? If so, that's a brilliant choice. Serious, especially for naturals.
2) Oily food. I have the same problem at work, except our budget will be much better than yours haha! ;) I'm lucky enough to be able to approach the cooks and sometimes ask for separately cooked food. Haha what you did with boiled eggs, I do I.F. right and if we get them for breakfast I hoard all the left-overs and eat them for lunch with oats. lol, good times, embrace the suck.
I have to ask why goji berries? Do they make you feel you can run through walls? Much hype.
3) I have a fetish for research and anecdotes, so if something new comes along I am very skeptical but I try to be open minded. But when I read cocoa extract or brown seaweed can open the flood-gates of muscle limitation I sat back and took a breath.

Like I said, you've got a good attitude, and as MA said, if you need supplements, go for the ones that stand the test of time. I can think with your res food how helpful whey could be. One laste question, what supplements do you take now? I mean everything and anything, maybe we can save you some money and tell you what to look for in the future.
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Last Edit: 15 Nov 2015 14:15 by Furk.
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Follistatex? 15 Nov 2015 14:29 #192995

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The thing is that comparing the real effects of this follistatex supplement with injecting follistatin is like comparing a testosterone cycle with ZMA or tribulus. It's the story of most supplements. A study finds a 10% increase in some hormone related to some kind of muscle growth therefore you will become a mass monster if you take it.
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Follistatex? 15 Nov 2015 16:39 #193000

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Furk wrote:
I mean everything and anything, maybe we can save you some money and tell you what to look for in the future.

Don't worry Furk, I have this nicely covered for him! he's in the best hands regarding this one ^^^^^ ;) haha!

He's taking all 100% raw supps hey. no flavour in his whey and uses separate Isolate, Concentrate and Casein at different times. He takes Vitargo, creagen [by Evolve], BCAA's and Glutamine after his sessions and sometimes a bit of Arginine before a session.

His nutrition is at its best on the weekends, when he is at home! he's really become a pro at improvising when it comes to choices and choosing the best option with what he has available.

He also forgot to mention that he's a very keen swimmer, ;) > just a little influencing on my side! :lol:
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Follistatex? 15 Nov 2015 16:43 #193001

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Muscleaddict wrote:
The thing is that comparing the real effects of this follistatex supplement with injecting follistatin is like comparing a testosterone cycle with ZMA or tribulus. It's the story of most supplements. A study finds a 10% increase in some hormone related to some kind of muscle growth therefore you will become a mass monster if you take it.

Howzit MA, do you know if the injectable follistain is available? I mean it's not a band substance is it? and if it is available, is it even worth it? For someone my age, it should be very beneficial?
"Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the Dedicated!! "
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Follistatex? 15 Nov 2015 17:16 #193002

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It's available as a research peptide but I haven't seen it in SA. These myostatin blocker type peptides like follistatin, ACVR2B and myostatin HMP are all very expensive, so are only really worthwhile for guys who have exhausted all other options for building their maximum muscle mass.
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