Gyno Reversal (advanced topic)

Hello there gentlemen,

Happy new year to you all, it's been quite some time since my last foray onto the forum although I have been popping on here and there. With formalities aside this is the current situation:

Ran this cycle couple months ago- www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/4-cycle...r-test-deca-anapolon


I did have a mild flair up of gyno whilst on it but I seemed to have got it under control then. Also seemingly no progesterone sides as nipples were not puffy/lactating, I did not even use the caber I had.

In the past month or so I've noticed a lump appearing once again in the left nipple area, I've tried my best to avoid touching, aggravating the area etc. Nipples are also 'puffy' but it has been excruciatingly hot so not sure what a 'normal' nipples should actually look like.

So thus I would greatly appreciate your input on gyno reversal, the protocol seems to be 40mg nolva/tamo for week 1 thereafter 20mg ED for 8-12 (until the lump has disappeared).

Please let me know if you have successfully done away with 'gyno' through this method, I'm also open to suggestions, perhaps letro should also be added? Caber?

Lump is about pea sized/slightly bigger, soft to touch. No noticeable pain or sensitivity to report.

I really would like to eradicate it and reassess when I will return to blasting. Happy with where I am and where I'm heading for the moment.

Thank you kindly,
Lemmiwinks

Any input from the vets? @00pump @oupa @admin @eidlon @wayne too many to mention...

Please okes your opinion is appreciated and will assist in adding to the knowledge contained within this vast forum.

I plan to start Monday.

Thanks

Hey you can watch this

That is quite a good video.

The video is useful, thanks but it seems like it's more for on cycle/immediately post and I'm not entirely sure it's suited to me.

I finished my pct 3 around 4 months ago so I don't think my e2 is outrageously high, I'm thinking a better suited protocol is raloxifene at 60mg for 10 days, followed by 30mg until it is reversed.

@00pump would do you make of this? Raloxifene chosen based on the possible progesterone nature of the gyno as I believe tamo/Nolvadex would only make it worse.

I'm probably the wrong person to ask, because I don't believe that much in gyno reversal. Once you have a lump you have a lump. If your e2 is high, that you can medically treat by using aromasin and the next time you go for bloods it should be lower. I have never found a true protocol to reverse gyno hence I have had 3 surgeries as nothing has worked, but I tried everything. I am not saying something wont work for you, but I'm sceptical of its success based on my person experience.

i have also read that you might reduce the lump to mnimal size but never get rid of it without surgery

00pump wrote: I'm probably the wrong person to ask, because I don't believe that much in gyno reversal. Once you have a lump you have a lump. If your e2 is high, that you can medically treat by using aromasin and the next time you go for bloods it should be lower. I have never found a true protocol to reverse gyno hence I have had 3 surgeries as nothing has worked, but I tried everything. I am not saying something wont work for you, but I'm sceptical of its success based on my person experience.

3? That is 2 too many. Hope the last one removed ALL the breast tissue?


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jackrabbit1 wrote:

00pump wrote: I'm probably the wrong person to ask, because I don't believe that much in gyno reversal. Once you have a lump you have a lump. If your e2 is high, that you can medically treat by using aromasin and the next time you go for bloods it should be lower. I have never found a true protocol to reverse gyno hence I have had 3 surgeries as nothing has worked, but I tried everything. I am not saying something wont work for you, but I'm sceptical of its success based on my person experience.

3? That is 2 too many. Hope the last one removed ALL the breast tissue?


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I wish, I had a full mastectomy done by two surgeons working together which cost a small furtune the previous time and the tissue has grown back. I will probably do another surgery this year again.

Gents I've enquired about the availability of raloxifene from my source as it's not identifiable from the list. If I can't source it then I'll go with the nolva/tamo at the above mentioned dosages.

I did come across a double blind study which showed no ill side effects or any malice at 20mg per day with around a 70% success rate in significantly reducing the size of lumps (as some have mentioned reduced not removed).

I think I also do have some puffiness so should sort that too.

Don't run Tamoxifen above 20mg, there is no benefit and you probably reading relayed information from the late 90s early 2000. You are just poisoning your body if you go above 20mg.

00pump wrote:

jackrabbit1 wrote:

00pump wrote: I'm probably the wrong person to ask, because I don't believe that much in gyno reversal. Once you have a lump you have a lump. If your e2 is high, that you can medically treat by using aromasin and the next time you go for bloods it should be lower. I have never found a true protocol to reverse gyno hence I have had 3 surgeries as nothing has worked, but I tried everything. I am not saying something wont work for you, but I'm sceptical of its success based on my person experience.

3? That is 2 too many. Hope the last one removed ALL the breast tissue?


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I wish, I had a full mastectomy done by two surgeons working together which cost a small furtune the previous time and the tissue has grown back. I will probably do another surgery this year again.

Palumbo had a rant about gyno. That tissue wasn't all removed. I have some left over from being a fat teen.... will see how bad it is when i lean out.

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Quite right the study is from 2006 to be exact:

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960977605000937

They administered 10mg for 3 months so I reckon 20mg as you say should (hopefully) bring some kind of reduction.

Here is also some further (referenced) reading for anyone interested (you can skip to therapy to see the discussion around raloxifene and tamo/nolva)

academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/1/15/2833174


Last article recommending a 20mg dosage for up to 3 months: www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&source=web&rct...6qSo8aZv9fq2JXm3sW30

Wish me luck, I do believe I have caught this before fibrosis has set in (>1 year).

I will report back the results which I hope will be of use and value.

Yup slow and steady may help.

Started yesterday.

I also have letro on hand (liquid).

@00pump do you recommend me to add a bit of letro in? If so how many drops would you say? Thank you for your responses.

@oupa if I recall correctly you assisted me with my flair up in the past, would really appreciate your input, is the letro a good idea coupled with the nolva?

Thanks gentlemen.

Hey any update that you can give us?

I suspect I might struggle with the same and need to know the road forward.

A year ago I started getting gyno after my last cycle which ended in Jan 2017. I did 3 month of nolvadex at 20mg ed for 3 month which resolved it. But it didnt remove it as it is back again.

Then how did it resolve it?

It didn't resolve it then.

What I can add for 2cents for future readers, as pmp said, if you have a lump you have a lump. Running another PCT or using estrogen blockers will only cause the breast tissue to react differently. Once you stop with PCT in hopes to reverse gyno it will just come back again.

Question for 00pump, does your lump hold you back in terms of running a cycle, or do you / have you, run a cycle with the lump but monitor it?

esgaroth wrote: It didn't resolve it then.

What I can add for 2cents for future readers, as pmp said, if you have a lump you have a lump. Running another PCT or using estrogen blockers will only cause the breast tissue to react differently. Once you stop with PCT in hopes to reverse gyno it will just come back again.

Question for 00pump, does your lump hold you back in terms of running a cycle, or do you / have you, run a cycle with the lump but monitor it?

I've always got a lump and always got a operation in sight.. I will be going for my 4th one in a few weeks, want to go on holiday first.. But no it doesn't stop me, it's a blessing in some ways, as it flares up so quickly that I immediately know if I don't have my estrogen under control, and I just add a drop or two of letro. I'm hoping I know my body well enough now, that this will be my last one and that if I just manage my estrogen exactly as I have now (bar the few bursts that I've had in the last few months) that this MAY be my last surgery, but so many factors come into play, age, other medication, training, diet that would effect estrogen. So ja, it's always a catch 22

Thanks, this helps me as I am planning my next cycle to start in 2 weeks, tren and prop with proviron and arimidex .5mg on hand.

esgaroth wrote: Thanks, this helps me as I am planning my next cycle to start in 2 weeks, tren and prop with proviron and arimidex .5mg on hand.

There I wouldn't be able to advise. Stuff like Tren and Anadrol are steroids I stay away from as I can never quite workout a protocol to control their conversion conversion. Good luck!

So over the past few months I've noticed quite a bit of puffyness in the chest area and without a doubt know that I have a little lump and it's gyno. Now it hasn't really bothered me that much buy lately it's gotten to me for some reason... who knows might be a mid life crisis.

Anyway after some thinking and discussing with my partner we've come to decide that I will go for the surgery.

So now I have some questions which is most probably aimed at pump since he's had the surgery a few times.

After surgery is there a lot of pain and how long before you're fully recovered. I ask this because I'd also like to go on holiday and would probably have to go before surgery as you did? Also in terms of how it will affect my work.

Running a cycle... so I haven't been on cycle for quite some time. So I was thinking I might just run a cycle before surgery as the risk of a flair up won't be an issue since I'm going to have surgery whereas surgery and then risking a flair after doesn't make sense. So if I do proceed with a cycle how long should I have to wait before surgery?

Also after surgery I'd still want to run a few cycles but would most likely be test only cycles going forward. So gyno won't be a big worry in my opinion. Is my thinking correct that should I control my e2 that I theoretically should not have to worry about gyno again.

Finally. If I do decide to run a cycle, now is probably the time for me to use something strong knowing that gyno won't be a concern? Or should I still be responsible and not go too hard on a cycle?

Hoosain wrote: So over the past few months I've noticed quite a bit of puffyness in the chest area and without a doubt know that I have a little lump and it's gyno. Now it hasn't really bothered me that much buy lately it's gotten to me for some reason... who knows might be a mid life crisis.

Anyway after some thinking and discussing with my partner we've come to decide that I will go for the surgery.

So now I have some questions which is most probably aimed at pump since he's had the surgery a few times.

After surgery is there a lot of pain and how long before you're fully recovered. I ask this because I'd also like to go on holiday and would probably have to go before surgery as you did? Also in terms of how it will affect my work.

Running a cycle... so I haven't been on cycle for quite some time. So I was thinking I might just run a cycle before surgery as the risk of a flair up won't be an issue since I'm going to have surgery whereas surgery and then risking a flair after doesn't make sense. So if I do proceed with a cycle how long should I have to wait before surgery?

Also after surgery I'd still want to run a few cycles but would most likely be test only cycles going forward. So gyno won't be a big worry in my opinion. Is my thinking correct that should I control my e2 that I theoretically should not have to worry about gyno again.

Finally. If I do decide to run a cycle, now is probably the time for me to use something strong knowing that gyno won't be a concern? Or should I still be responsible and not go too hard on a cycle?

The operation can be somewhat painful but not that bad. It also depends upon how much tissue they cutting out, one of my surgeries I had drains put in. That was more a freak out to the head that anything else. I had 2 moles cut out, one on my head and on my neck and pulling the stitch out on my head was far more painful than the surgery. There is no way near as much pain as woman go through with breast augmentation as that is creating a pocket under the muscle and the pressure pushing down, and the size of the CC's being put in, and then the body needing to create a capsule around it, this is pretty much a walk on the park. Most times I've done the op I have had other things done at the same time which is far more painful so I didn't pay much attention to my chest. What I can tell you is when you pull that plaster off and your nipple is looking perfect and 'tight' it's really a feel good moment.

You going to need to sleep on your back for awhile, normally there is a tiny cut around the nipple that once healed you don't even see, and they go in and scrap around, lipo is the used to make sure it is flat, you can have bad surgeons that take out to much tissue and you have an indent which isn't nice based on photos I've seen.

You can get back to doing weights after about 10 days, you won't be able to go as heavy or anything as you get a pulling feeling when trying to stretch up or if you need to grab a lat pull down, etc. But again, it could literally just be a scrape they going to do without drains and just get the lump out.

It is extremely easy to get it to flare up again even after the surgery, so if you stick to Testosterone only I have found recently that it doesn't aggravate things, but lots of other medication / drugs do. I specifically find Pregnyl to be extremely aggressive in causing a flare up, so I only use it as needed.

If you manage your estrogen you won't have an issue, but again you don't want to nuke it completely, I am using around 5 drops of LP Adex twice a week, sometimes I do 10 once a week if I have forgotten which is not often.

As for running a cycle, you can, you can even be on the cycle when you go in (I don't recommend this due to increased RBC), and if you are going to hit it, make sure the usual's, E2, Prolactin, DHEA, Test, etc have been checked and your body is balanced.. What I noticed once was that I was suppressive so much estrogen that my testosterone levels where low and that too creates gyno. With regards to what to run, that is purely up to you and what you enjoy. I prefer the slow Test + EQ route, others prefer a Deca / Test, etc. I am over the big bang type cycles, they cause more side effects and when cutting back or stopping the rebound psychological issues are not worth it. What I also have regretted before is the return of gyno and saying to myself, muscles are not worth this, but I'm 3 times down and have to do it again, so clearly I am not convincing myself just yet.

Thanks pump. As usual answer everything and give more info than I asked. I think you pretty much covered everything I needed to know.

So looks like I'm going to hit a cycle and do the surgery after. Will most likely be a test and npp cycle as I'm leaning to something quick. However I might just change my mind and do a long cycle including equi. Goal would be to get some quality lean muscle with that one. Only thing holding me back from that is that I'd prefer to have the op done before December for obvious reasons haha.

Glad to hear recovery is that quick is as well. So will start a cycle and go on holiday soon and then leave my surgery until later this year.

Definitely will be doing test only cycles after and if anything gets added will be good old anavar.

Thanks again pump for always sharing the knowledge and experience

So I was scheduled for the op in February but missed my appoint due to the passing of my father.

Then yesterday I bumped into the nurse who helped me get the appointment. Being a family friend knew exactly why I missed the appointment and asked me if I’m still wanting to go through with the op. Obviously I was keen. Due to covid 19 they have put everything on hold until July which is when she will book my appointment for (should things not get out of hand)

So now I’m excited and looking forward to something again. Looks like it’s time to hit that cycle as well.
Have built up some nice equipment for my home gym experience so nothing will stand in my way. If we do get a shut down like I suspect the president will announce this evening it will be even more in my favor. No work and enough sleep and training. Can’t wait to see the new look after the op .

Thanks again Pump for all the awesome advice and guidance.