low test levels after good PCT

Gentlemen,
I got my test levels checked this weekend:
total test: 10.50(302ng/dl), free test: 174.6, shbg 43.1
These are disappointing numbers. I finished PCT 6 months ago - PCT3, with 3wks Clomid, 6wks Nolva&Aromasin, after a 20wk test prop/test suspension/NPP/Anavar/Winstrol cycle - all dosed as recommended here. Ran HCG & Cabaser through cycle. I did an extra long bridge with short esters to ensure the Deca was out of my system before PCT. I'm 48. I suppose this is the price of running Deca without PCT when I was young & ignorant? Should I consider HRT? Is there anything to lose by re-doing a PCT of some kind? Suggestions for such a PCT? I'm pinning BCo/12 regularly, plus various peptides. Training is going surprisingly well considering the low test. Your advice or opinions would be appreciated as always

At 48 TRT is a good choice rather but thats my view on it

Various peptides?

Tough decision to make. Considering the cycle you were on your test level will probably still improve with time off. But how much is anyone's guess. You could try low dose clomid monotherapy (12.5mg-25mg/day) as an option before TRT. Dr Crisler is a fan and it works for a lot of guys.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22458540

Oupa: I'm currently on IGF, have also run Ipam+CJC and Somatropin since the last cycle. Have had good results.
MA: thankyou - I see Dr Crisler on another site recommends anastrozole with the clomifene: would you agree?
Lex: TRT is tempting, but I see it as a last resort. Don't like the idea of dependence on any substance, and there are always side-effects
thanks for the replies

I would do what Crisler says. Clomid does elevate estrogen but not everyone on clomid therapy needs it. Blood work will tell you if you need it.

I do commend you..im around half your age and looking at starting trt when im around 37...but I do agree with MA rather try the low clomid route first and then see where that takes you

How are you finding the IGF Mack? Keeping you lean?

Rhino wrote: How are you finding the IGF Mack? Keeping you lean?

It works a treat mate. It seems to have some kind of appetite suppressant effect too? Together with plenty of cardio, I'm probably around 10% bf now. Started low dose Clomid - hopefully raise my test a bit

Gentlemen,
A follow-up: I have been on LP Clomid 25mg ED and Arimidex 2 drops ED for the last month, as discussed above. I had bloodwork done on 12.12.15:
total test - 28.07 (was 12) free test - 440.7 (was 174) shbg - 58 (was 47 ) E2 < 75
Clearly Clomid & Anastrozole work very well in raising T for me, but I assume they will not be effective forever? I would appreciate any opinions or thoughts on the way forward. Also, having never tested E2 before, I'm not sure how to interpret that result?
thanks

No it will never stay as high as it would when using an AI or SERM, but when you ready come off for a month or two and test again and see where you stand.

Thankyou Pump. I plan to work on it once Argus is done.
Can I get your ideas about the "E2 < (less than) 75 pmol/L" result? I've done some reading about Estrogen, Estradiol, but most of the information refers to women. I read that E2 is necessary for men. Do I need to use less Anastrozole to raise the E2? Any advice would be appreciated as always
thanks

Mack the E2 number is a bit complicated because it is not so much about the number as far as side effects and health go, but the ratio of E2 to Testosterone. That applies to when E2 is in the generally accepted normal range or even over double that. Too low is always bad though, unless you are only concerned about aesthetics.

What is too low? <75 is a bit vague. 75 is fine but borderline for optimal health with a TT of 28. If it is <50 then that is too low for long term health, ie. cardiovascular, bones, stroke risk. I hope I was clear enough with my explanation.

00pump wrote: No it will never stay as high as it would when using an AI or SERM, but when you ready come off for a month or two and test again and see where you stand.

Would you advise that Mack tapers down slowly when coming off?

Muscleaddict wrote: Mack the E2 number is a bit complicated because it is not so much about the number as far as side effects and health go, but the ratio of E2 to Testosterone. That applies to when E2 is in the generally accepted normal range or even over double that. Too low is always bad though, unless you are only concerned about aesthetics.

What is too low? <75 is a bit vague. 75 is fine but borderline for optimal health with a TT of 28. If it is <50 then that is too low for long term health, ie. cardiovascular, bones, stroke risk. I hope I was clear enough with my explanation.

Great explanation - thankyou MA

Hi, MA
Could one do the low dose Clomid with Aromasind instead of Arimidex?

Muscleaddict wrote: Mack the E2 number is a bit complicated because it is not so much about the number as far as side effects and health go, but the ratio of E2 to Testosterone. That applies to when E2 is in the generally accepted normal range or even over double that. Too low is always bad though, unless you are only concerned about aesthetics.

What is too low? <75 is a bit vague. 75 is fine but borderline for optimal health with a TT of 28. If it is <50 then that is too low for long term health, ie. cardiovascular, bones, stroke risk. I hope I was clear enough with my explanation.

What is the ideal ratio of E2 : Tesosterone (roughly even)?

Hormonas wrote:

00pump wrote: No it will never stay as high as it would when using an AI or SERM, but when you ready come off for a month or two and test again and see where you stand.

Would you advise that Mack tapers down slowly when coming off?

Yup, I've actually found an AI to be more effective during PCT than a SERM, tapper down just to prevent a rebound of estrogen not for any other reason.

Hi Pump

Can one use Clomid and Aromasin for the same reason Mack used Clomid and Arimidex?

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: Hi, MA
Could one do the low dose Clomid with Aromasind instead of Arimidex?

Yes for sure.

Thanks, Legend

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: Hi Pump

Can one use Clomid and Aromasin for the same reason Mack used Clomid and Arimidex?

Clomid and Aromasin would actually be a primary choice of mine

Thanks for the answer guys.

00pump wrote:

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: Hi Pump

Can one use Clomid and Aromasin for the same reason Mack used Clomid and Arimidex?

Clomid and Aromasin would actually be a primary choice of mine

@Pump, can I ask, is there not a greater chance of 'crashing' your E2 with Aromasin, due to its long term effects? Could you suggest a dosage for Aromasin when used with Clomid like this? I have a stock of LP Aromasin 20mg capsules I could use

Let MA give you the technical break down.. or else I'll write 9th up on my pc tomorrow for you