Beginner cycle advice please

Hey guys.
Sorry to bore you all again with a newbie question but this shouldn't take long, hopefully. :whistle: Basically I would just like some advice on which of these two beginners cycles to start out with?
1. Dianabol & Testocyp
2. Oral Primobolan & Proviron
At the moment I'm leaning towards number 2 but would like some input from more experienced members.

Some stats:
I'm 32 years old, 1.7m, 67kg, 17% body fat.

Thanks in advance.

Hey Johnny

1.How many years have you been training?
2.What are your macro numbers? and do you have a eating plan?
3.You might want to get your bodyfat a little lower first to around 12% or even 10%

Johnny_Rotten wrote: Hey guys.
Sorry to bore you all again with a newbie question but this shouldn't take long, hopefully. :whistle: Basically I would just like some advice on which of these two beginners cycles to start out with?
1. Dianabol & Testocyp
2. Oral Primobolan & Proviron
At the moment I'm leaning towards number 2 but would like some input from more experienced members.

Some stats:
I'm 32 years old, 1.7m, 67kg, 17% body fat.

Thanks in advance.

With those stats you have a lbm of 56kg, and even at your height that is (skraal) skinny. No offense meant.

I personally would try and gain more natty and then consider a cycle.

As Demolish has mentioned how does your current diet look like?

Let me answer your question directly, cause I know that if a guy wants to hit a cycle.....
He's gonna hit a cycle regardless. :woohoo:

I would go for the Cyp & Dbol and maybe add Proviron to it from the 3'rd week.
Don't run a crazy dose and get your meal plan sorted.
You can't run a high boost turbo car without proper fuel

Thanks for the advice so far guys.
Yeah I'm a bit of a hard gainer which is why I'm considering this route. Been training on/off for 3 or 4 years now, haven't really been eating right for most of the part but started on a eating plan of sorts about 2 months ago. My body fat was lower before I started eating more and seems to have shot up quite a bit. Probably due to me not training correctly? I could definitely see an increase in muscle size although not a lot but now I seem to just be gaining more fat than muscle.

My daily diet consists of the following:
Breakfast: 3 whole eggs, slice of whole wheat toast and a glass of milk
Snack: Cheese sandwich and a glass of milk
Lunch: One can of tuna with two slices of whole wheat and a glass of milk
Snack: 1/4 cup cottage cheese on a slice of wholewheat bread, glass of milk, banana
Supper: Whatever the gf cooks for that day.. chicken with veggies, fish and veggies, beef stew, etc..
Snack: protein shake and two hard boiled eggs every other day

I train every other day and run a few km's on non workout days.

You my friend do not need Anabolics. What you need is to stop eating so much bread. Eat more Protein and solid carbs like brown or basmati rice, oats and sweetpotato.

Your training and diet more than likely leaves much to be desired that is why you have not gained the muscle you desire.

Yup, as Rooi Bul has said, you don't need AAS, you need to eat.

What you've posted above is a normal person's daily diet. I suspect you don't have any idea what a proper body building or bulking diet looks like.

Eat this for a month and report back to us:

Meal 1: Oats (100g), Whey (30g), 1 banana, peanut butter (30g)
Meal 2: 7 egg whites, 3 whole eggs, 1 cup white basmati rice
Meal 3 Chicken (250g), white basmati rice (1 cup)
Meal 4 and 5: Lean beef mince (250g), white potato (1 large)
Post workout: 30g whey, 50g oats

yeah man that bread isn't helping at all. work out your macros and get a decent eating plan

Thought as much. Guess I need to do a bit more research before trying to find an easy solution, thanks for the tips guys. To be honest I don't really want to bulk up too much, just don't want to be so scrawny any more :lol:

I also said something to that effect about 40kg's ago LOL!

You need to get your meal plan sorted.... It's a bit of a mess

Johnny_Rotten wrote: Thought as much. Guess I need to do a bit more research before trying to find an easy solution, thanks for the tips guys. To be honest I don't really want to bulk up too much, just don't want to be so scrawny any more :lol:

You won't just "bulk up too much" without actively trying to, don't worry. We spend thousands of Rands and hours of our lives in the pursuit of size and muscle, so it won't just happen unexpectedly without actually setting out to do so.

I too thought I was a hard gainer. Turns out I just didn't jack shit about eating and none of my gym friends really did either.

So I was told to just eat, I struggled to get the food down at first but got use to the amounts. The biggest mistake I ever made was getting a mass gainer - full of sugar basically. That made me fat! Don't waste your time and money IMO.
Also my friends told me to just eat anything and everything, so I did. I ate burgers and chips, chocolates, and I just got fat from that as well. I picked up weight, but not the weight I wanted. I was shocked to be honest as I was always that skinny guy and was always told I would never get fat - I don't think I have ever been over 16% bodyfat but still. My stomach was doing unpleasant things when I sat down and looked at myself.

Once I started to learn how I should be eating, everything changed!! Fat dropped a bit, strength went up and I started feeling sooo much better and had soo much more energy and was in a better mood, muscle gains started happening a lot quicker as well.

I started on a new training program and have increased my flat DB chest press weight from 20KG a side to 25KG a side in 5 or 6 weeks. This is coming from a guy when I first started going to gym weighed 48KG give or take (not measured properly, not 1st thing in the morning) and I struggled to lift 5KG a side with flat DB chest press. I could not bench press an empty bar. :blush:

I have not touched any steroids either, still 100% natural. I seldom even supplement with whey protein as I try and get all my protein from the food I eat.
Start tracking your food consumed with an app such as My Fitness Pal - it made a worlds difference and without a doubt helped me get on the right track in terms of what I should and shouldn't be eating as well as how much.

As the others have said, stop with the bread and replace it with better carbs. Normal non-instant oats are fantastic as well as brown basmati rice (super tasty, you won't be able to eat any other rice afterwards), sweet potato, perhaps even some whole wheat pasta.

Also make sure that you keep your fat intake reasonable as well, do not try and cut out all fat! I feel as if a lot of novices make this mistake. I too made it and my body functions a looot better when it has some good fats thrown in, your body needs it.

PsyCLown wrote: I too thought I was a hard gainer. Turns out I just didn't jack shit about eating and none of my gym friends really did either.

So I was told to just eat, I struggled to get the food down at first but got use to the amounts. The biggest mistake I ever made was getting a mass gainer - full of sugar basically. That made me fat! Don't waste your time and money IMO.
Also my friends told me to just eat anything and everything, so I did. I ate burgers and chips, chocolates, and I just got fat from that as well. I picked up weight, but not the weight I wanted. I was shocked to be honest as I was always that skinny guy and was always told I would never get fat - I don't think I have ever been over 16% bodyfat but still. My stomach was doing unpleasant things when I sat down and looked at myself.

Once I started to learn how I should be eating, everything changed!! Fat dropped a bit, strength went up and I started feeling sooo much better and had soo much more energy and was in a better mood, muscle gains started happening a lot quicker as well.

I started on a new training program and have increased my flat DB chest press weight from 20KG a side to 25KG a side in 5 or 6 weeks. This is coming from a guy when I first started going to gym weighed 48KG give or take (not measured properly, not 1st thing in the morning) and I struggled to lift 5KG a side with flat DB chest press. I could not bench press an empty bar. :blush:

I have not touched any steroids either, still 100% natural. I seldom even supplement with whey protein as I try and get all my protein from the food I eat.
Start tracking your food consumed with an app such as My Fitness Pal - it made a worlds difference and without a doubt helped me get on the right track in terms of what I should and shouldn't be eating as well as how much.



As the others have said, stop with the bread and replace it with better carbs. Normal non-instant oats are fantastic as well as brown basmati rice (super tasty, you won't be able to eat any other rice afterwards), sweet potato, perhaps even some whole wheat pasta.

Also make sure that you keep your fat intake reasonable as well, do not try and cut out all fat! I feel as if a lot of novices make this mistake. I too made it and my body functions a looot better when it has some good fats thrown in, your body needs it.

Respect + 1

Shot for the advice. I am gonna stay off the juice for now while I work out a better eating plan and see how it goes. Definitely won't be eating any more bread from now on. What are your guys views on milk? Should I lay off that as well?

Work out your calorie needs per day. Read up on how to bulk up clean and natural. Then you will see your whole food and meals get priority if you have room left in your calories and macros add the milk. Basicaly milk on a bulk yes on a cut no.

Johnny_Rotten wrote: Shot for the advice. I am gonna stay off the juice for now while I work out a better eating plan and see how it goes. Definitely won't be eating any more bread from now on. What are your guys views on milk? Should I lay off that as well?

Milk is excellent for nutrition! The only problem with it is the milk sugar (lactose) which will impact your fat loss, so I agree with Rooi Ballas.

Hey whatch it Pyrogasm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

PsyCLown wrote: I too thought I was a hard gainer. Turns out I just didn't jack shit about eating and none of my gym friends really did either.

Respect. Take a plus +1

Johnny, the BIG mistake many guys make in a gymn is to try and impress the other guys. Gonna let you in on an open secret...

ready for it...

Most guys couldn't care to judge you on what/or how much you press/pull/push etc. They do however scoff at guys with poor form who are clearly lifting beyond their capabilities or when their spotters are doing more work than they are.

If in doubt about an exercise ask. Most guys would be more than obliging (obviously timing is important as a guy in mid set is focussed on the task at hand).

As said, get your diet sorted. That in it self is the MOST anabolic process and you will gain. Go to the butcher and look at a 5kg slab of meat. It's quite a chunk. Imagine that over your body. 5kg doesn't sound a lot but believe me 5kg of solid muscle will make a huge difference to your physique, and being relatively exercise naïve you'll gain quickly.

Why is Dianobol always added on a first cycle with test?

It doesn't have to be DBol, it could be any oral of choice.

saflyfish wrote: Why is Dianobol always added on a first cycle with test?

It's cheap and easy to get, but you don't have to use Dbol as Pyro said.