need advice on lean bulk cycle

Need advice on lean bulk cycle im not sure what i want to run as yet i need your tried and tested opinions! I am 1.77cm tall and current weight is at 58 - 63 kg last time i weighed myself about 2 months back,bodyfat is somewhere at 14-17% judging from the mirror! No abs visible guessing im skinny fat im not a complete noob when it comes to gear i have a fair bit of experience using gear i have run 4 successfull cycles which is sustanon 250,test enanthe,testoviron (test prop test e blend) did 2 cycles of testoviron as i had the best results with it,it opened my chest up in an athletic way! I never got tired lifting intensively i could lift for hours on that stuff if i allowed myself to however on test e and sustanon 250 only thing i could notice were strenght gains i dont know why testoviron makes me feel that way cause they're all just test only difference is esters my diet is 100% while on gear, not really clean i eat a lot of bread and stuff off cycle but when i run gear i follow strict diet consisting of a tonload of chicken breast atleast 900g uncooked per day asparagus broccoli and about 80g jungle oats that is what my meals look like and what i eat everyday on cycle 40g oats in the morning provides me with 23g carbs and 40g oats 30mins before workout i do keep carbs low as im "carb sensitive" i gain weight real quickily with carbs i try to keep my carb intake at 60g or lower cause anything above that i start to see my face getting puffy i weighed 79kg on my last cycle which was sustanon 250 didnt like it at all! Bloated me like hell same with test e i would like to keep my flat stomach i lost all my gains pretty much on every cycle ive ran so would appreciate and accept any critism from you guys as what you think would be best to cycle/stack together!

Hi, I would just like to get some clarity on a couple of things...
How long did your previous cycles last?
Did you follow pct after cycle?
You dropped almost 20kg from your last cycle to now??? How long ago was that?

Yes gained and lost every single gram of gains i made on every cycle i ran might over estimate my bf percentage im really lean but no visible abs but to answer your question truthfully no i havent run pct i know its a noob mistake but during cycle my libido and morning wood was still normal i had my balls shrink quite a bit but when erection occurs they are normal size my diet however to break it down goes like this and ill only use calories as i am 100% sure i get all my protein and carbs
Monday 2700 cals
Tues 1770 cals
Wed 3200 cala
Thu 2700 cals
Fri 1900 cals
Sat 2300 cals
Sun 800 cals

Calories would worry anyone runing cycle but mon,wed,thu,sat i have 900g chicken breast in those meals i keep my carbs low cause i gain weight around my face even at 80g a day i run my calories like that to not gain weight and look all fat and stuff and it works well for me i dont include spices and stuff in my meal to lower sodium as low as possible but i still bloat around my stomach on cycle! So any advice would be taken im currently looking at supercut 300 which is 100mg tren ace,100mg test prop,100mg masteron would be running cabaser at 0.5mg every week 1-6 and 500 ui hcg every week hcg i will run from week 1-4 and supercut i will discontinue at week 6 week 6 to 12 i will run test prop at 100mg eod and start pct hcg 500 ui week 1 - 4 and week 5 - 8 run clomid and nolvadex so with that being said if you have any recomendations please do guide me i would humbly accept your advice and tweak things accordingly my last cycle was about 7 months ago and every cycle i run,i run for 12 weeks on my last cycle i ran i went for 16 weeks

To come back to your initial question about lean bulk cycle, personally I wouldnt run the supercut mix... those are the compounds I start using 9 weeks out from comp. If your goal is to get ripped, by all means. Couple supercut mix with proviron, letro, T3 and clen and your on a comp cycle... but if your not looking to compete in the next 4 months I wouldn't use that. Judging from your previous cycles you've onky ran test? If I can give you my own opinion Id say look at Test E and Equipoise and proviron for a 12-16 week cycle OR test prop, test E and deca 100 fast acting and proviron followed by pct. If your diet is good and clean you shouldn't experience much water retention or bloating but some good quality lean gains. Ive ran those cycles myself and have also advised otger guys to try them with good results. Thats only my 2 cents worth, maybe someone else on this forum can also share they're thoughts.

I'm more shocked at how you weigh 58kg-63kg
Judging by that alone i doubt your calorie counter is not accurate either.

You mention 4 successful cycles, yet in the same post talk about losing all gains and not running PCT. Doesn't really sound successful to me.

Even your diet seems to have your calories all over the place. Is there a specific reason for that?

Last thing, you are 1.77m tall and weigh around 58-63kg with an estimated 14-17% bodyfat. Sounds to me like you need to get your diet and training in check before running any gear. That weight and height shows that you still have alot of potential to grow naturally before needing gear. I'm thinking your weight gain/bloat is more due to running cycles without PCT, poor diet and possibly insufficient training.

I would suggest going for blood tests just to ensure everything is in order. Then have a look at my diet and get some proper help with that. Then have a look at your training program to see where that can be tweaked as well.
Once all the above is in order you should start seeing results already and thereafter you can start looking into a proper well structured cycle.

Thankfully you have come to the right place and the guys here will give you excellent advice.
Good luck with the plans and when you finally do get to run it good luck with your cycle. If you do it right it will be a great cycle and the results will show and stay.

Humungus thanks for the advice looking at what you've said i will probably drop the supercut for now and run a testoviron proviron along with equipoise i do not plan on competing at all i respond really well on testoviron like ive said it opens my chest up really good and i can lift for hours on that stuff as for sustanon and test e i never experienced that i only noticed strenght gains from those 2 compounds to my understanding testoviron is a blend of test e coupled with test prop but test e being dominant in the mix and i will be following pct this time round as to answer hoosain post i use fatsecret to count my macro's whether its accurate or not i do not know but following that high low calorie protocol has worked well for me on wed where i consume 3200 cals on that particular day i consume 500g uncooked weight fatti's and moni's pasta along with 900g uncooked weight chicken breast fillets carbs in the pasta totals to 350g i focus a lot on my diet its an aspect that im obsessed with i do apologise if i sound like a repeater calorie counter but as you know diet is the most important part of any cycle so i bring it up for you to see things from a broader prospective and yes my current weight is 63.2kg to be exact i weighed myself last night at a friends place i deliberately have been dieting myself down to achieve the lowest possible bodyfat before i start cycle so i can minimise the whole puffy look ive never ran blood test as i dont know what to ask for or what to look out for ive never felt th need for it either as my libido was still normal during cycle and after cycle

genuineguy wrote: Humungus thanks for the advice looking at what you've said i will probably drop the supercut for now and run a testoviron proviron along with equipoise i do not plan on competing at all i respond really well on testoviron like ive said it opens my chest up really good and i can lift for hours on that stuff as for sustanon and test e i never experienced that i only noticed strenght gains from those 2 compounds to my understanding testoviron is a blend of test e coupled with test prop but test e being dominant in the mix

This is not true to my understanding (testoviron(by bayer one ml amps) is just test enathante 250mg/ml. There no mixture of test en and prop in testoviron.

On bloods you can check for
Estrogen/ total test & free test
Good nd bad Cholesterol

I see a little search confirmed what you said both test e and testoviron have the same formula but now my question is this cause ive ran both before why does testoviron give me more of a athletic feel than test e? The testoviron i had was from organon and test e from u.p.a labs on testoviron it seemed like i had more lung capacity whereas on test e i only had strenght gains

genuineguy wrote: Humungus thanks for the advice looking at what you've said i will probably drop the supercut for now and run a testoviron proviron along with equipoise i do not plan on competing at all i respond really well on testoviron like ive said it opens my chest up really good and i can lift for hours on that stuff as for sustanon and test e i never experienced that i only noticed strenght gains from those 2 compounds to my understanding testoviron is a blend of test e coupled with test prop but test e being dominant in the mix and i will be following pct this time round as to answer hoosain post i use fatsecret to count my macro's whether its accurate or not i do not know but following that high low calorie protocol has worked well for me on wed where i consume 3200 cals on that particular day i consume 500g uncooked weight fatti's and moni's pasta along with 900g uncooked weight chicken breast fillets carbs in the pasta totals to 350g i focus a lot on my diet its an aspect that im obsessed with i do apologise if i sound like a repeater calorie counter but as you know diet is the most important part of any cycle so i bring it up for you to see things from a broader prospective and yes my current weight is 63.2kg to be exact i weighed myself last night at a friends place i deliberately have been dieting myself down to achieve the lowest possible bodyfat before i start cycle so i can minimise the whole puffy look ive never ran blood test as i dont know what to ask for or what to look out for ive never felt th need for it either as my libido was still normal during cycle and after cycle

sorry buddy, your post doesn't clearly explain so i'm going to mention how i interpret it.

are you eating meals for a day that consist of 500g pasta and 900g chicken? Thats 2000 calories from carbs and 3600 calories from protein. 5600 calories in the form of carbs and protein is going to get you fat bro unless you are training like a beast. you also make no mention of fats at all. cutting out fats is also a sure way for you to gain fat. Your meals don't seem to have a balance of carbs, protein and healthy fats.

Also are you using any supplements? Supps like protein, creating, multivit, omega 3's etc.

Fat secret is fine to use, but hitting your caloric goals with the wrong foods can have the opposite effect of your goals.

Sorry if i'm coming across as an a-hole, just trying to help you out buddy.

Read this thread which will help alot regarding your diet side.
www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/10-diet...-calorie-intake-help

i just feel like your diet is a big culprit.
i also thought i had a good diet before i got to this site. the foods itself were not wrong, but my caloric intake was way more than what i was supposed to be getting in.

No hard feelings man im here for the critism and advice i dont take it up the wrong way split my meals into 4 throughout the day and i completely elimante fats yes also i do not use supps i was under the impression my diet was alright cause i was gaining on it just not the way i would like to muscle came out looking smooth and zero definition with bloat mainly around my facial area and stomach water retention is the main culprit for that to my understanding and it cannot be completely elimanted but when comparing myself to other dudes in the gym i seemed more puffy than they were yet we were running same compound taking turns to pin each other its either my estrogen is already high before i cycle i dont know if that is possible or sodium uptake is higher than i calculate it to be i eat in a calorie deficit with 2 or 3 days out of the week in a calorie surplus my worst fear is getting fat lol im chasing the calisthenics look rather than the powerlifter look as im already slim i would post pics for you to see where im currently at but i dont know how to! i will go do blood test tomorrow and post the stats im keen to see it for myself after 4 cycles without pct im kinda expecting some imbalances

genuineguy wrote: I see a little search confirmed what you said both test e and testoviron have the same formula but now my question is this cause ive ran both before why does testoviron give me more of a athletic feel than test e? The testoviron i had was from organon and test e from u.p.a labs on testoviron it seemed like i had more lung capacity whereas on test e i only had strenght gains

A bit hard to tell as i have no experience with the above brands you mentioned. My clients use pgw / on the bayer TestE250mgs amps.
From what i know testE has a build up effect. Which leads to a user gradually having a increase in strength&mass

Hoosain wrote:

genuineguy wrote:
are you eating meals for a day that consist of 500g pasta and 900g chicken? Thats 2000 calories from carbs and 3600 calories from protein. 5600 calories in the form of carbs and protein is going to get you fat bro unless you are training like a beast. you also make no mention of fats at all. cutting out fats is also a sure way for you to gain fat. Your meals don't seem to have a balance of carbs, protein and healthy fats.

Also are you using any supplements? Supps like protein, creating, multivit, omega 3's etc.

Fat secret is fine to use, but hitting your caloric goals with the wrong foods can have the opposite effect of your goals.

Sorry if i'm coming across as an a-hole, just trying to help you out buddy.

Read this thread which will help alot regarding your diet side.
www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/10-diet...-calorie-intake-help

Add in some avocados into your diet for goof fats

genuineguy wrote: No hard feelings man im here for the critism and advice i dont take it up the wrong way split my meals into 4 throughout the day and i completely elimante fats yes also i do not use supps i was under the impression my diet was alright cause i was gaining on it just not the way i would like to muscle came out looking smooth and zero definition with bloat mainly around my facial area and stomach water retention is the main culprit for that to my understanding and it cannot be completely elimanted but when comparing myself to other dudes in the gym i seemed more puffy than they were yet we were running same compound taking turns to pin each other its either my estrogen is already high before i cycle i dont know if that is possible or sodium uptake is higher than i calculate it to be i eat in a calorie deficit with 2 or 3 days out of the week in a calorie surplus my worst fear is getting fat lol im chasing the calisthenics look rather than the powerlifter look as im already slim i would post pics for you to see where im currently at but i dont know how to! i will go do blood test tomorrow and post the stats im keen to see it for myself after 4 cycles without pct im kinda expecting some imbalances

Bloat normally comes from high carb intacke and sodium cut down on those two to see how your body reacts

For posting pictures
Upload via imgur.com
And post links in the topic

correct samz. I think the carbs are too high for his goals and there is a lack of good fats. The avo would be a great addition.

genuineguy wrote: No hard feelings man im here for the critism and advice i dont take it up the wrong way split my meals into 4 throughout the day and i completely elimante fats yes also i do not use supps i was under the impression my diet was alright cause i was gaining on it just not the way i would like to muscle came out looking smooth and zero definition with bloat mainly around my facial area and stomach water retention is the main culprit for that to my understanding and it cannot be completely elimanted but when comparing myself to other dudes in the gym i seemed more puffy than they were yet we were running same compound taking turns to pin each other its either my estrogen is already high before i cycle i dont know if that is possible or sodium uptake is higher than i calculate it to be i eat in a calorie deficit with 2 or 3 days out of the week in a calorie surplus my worst fear is getting fat lol im chasing the calisthenics look rather than the powerlifter look as im already slim i would post pics for you to see where im currently at but i dont know how to! i will go do blood test tomorrow and post the stats im keen to see it for myself after 4 cycles without pct im kinda expecting some imbalances

Cool man. For the look you want i think those carbs need to go way down and add in the good fats.
Carbs are probably the main culprit in keeping you all puffy and probably adding the bloat.

Then bloods also would be able to tell if your hormones are in good standing. That is also contributes to the bloat. I used to be in the same boat. Bulky and puffy (well getting back to that look right now hahaha) but i realised that my diet was the culprit. Even though i had a "good reason" for eating more carbs, that was my downfall on keeping my bodyfat down.

I think you should change it up a bit and give it a go. Read the link i sent you and you'll be sure to notice some differences without a cycle. I personally did it and drop my bodyfat quite a bit.

Thanks for the advice guys especially to you hoosain for referring me to that post very informative ive come to terms with what you've all said and im going to change my whole game plan from a to z starting with the main concern of this post...my diet! Ill be using the calculations posted in that topic which for my maintenance needs will be bmr 370 + 26.1 x 54.18 lean body mass x 1.375 activity factor = 2314 cals i used 14% as my body fat percentage 63.2kg - 14% = 54kg to be in a caloric surplus i would need around 2500-2800 calories now comes the problem of selecting the right foods and the question of how much carbs and how much fats should come from how many calories so lets say if i consume 150g carbs 250g protein and 60g fat will i be getting fat from that amount of carbs and fat at maintenance calories 2314? If i lower carbs i lower calories to below maintenance needs ive been playing around with types of food to calculate the macros but carbs i cannot get them below 100g without sacrificing calories

genuineguy wrote: Thanks for the advice guys especially to you hoosain for referring me to that post very informative ive come to terms with what you've all said and im going to change my whole game plan from a to z starting with the main concern of this post...my diet! Ill be using the calculations posted in that topic which for my maintenance needs will be bmr 370 + 26.1 x 54.18 lean body mass x 1.375 activity factor = 2314 cals i used 14% as my body fat percentage 63.2kg - 14% = 54kg to be in a caloric surplus i would need around 2500-2800 calories now comes the problem of selecting the right foods and the question of how much carbs and how much fats should come from how many calories so lets say if i consume 150g carbs 250g protein and 60g fat will i be getting fat from that amount of carbs and fat at maintenance calories 2314? If i lower carbs i lower calories to below maintenance needs ive been playing around with types of food to calculate the macros but carbs i cannot get them below 100g without sacrificing calories

Do some more reading bro. You can cut carbs and add good fats to increase calories.
Have you ever thought of trying keto? I personally struggle with it. Have seen and heard results though and people love it.

remember 1gram fat = 9 calories whereas 1gram carbs = 4 calories. So upping calories can be quite easy.
Also, don't be afraid of fats. They come in good and bad and our bodies definitely need the good ones even for losing bodyfat.

Ive read about the keto diet yea where it uses your bodys ketogenics as energy instead of carbs im working on the same plan for myself its a hell lot of work to calculate and re adjust things with so many foods to pick from and trying to pick all the low GI and clean sources..its definetely harder than i thought it to be very time consuming lol will deff be taking your advice on those avoes and ill be largely dependant on them for my fat source so far what ive come up with is this: not yet completed as calories are a bit low and ill also be cycling the carbs/prot/fats in a 3 day period so day one might be high fat/low carb/high protein and day 2 low fat/high carb/high protein day 3 high protein/half of usual fat in gram/low carb

2 scrambled eggs
Protein 13g=52 cals
Fat 15.21= 137 cals
Carbs 1.96g=8 cals
Total cals=197

Hass avocado 100g
23.5g fat=211.5
1.7g prot=6.8
7.2g carbs=28.8
Total cals= 247.1

Hass avocado 100g
23.5g fat=211.5 cals
1.7g prot=6.8 cals
7.2g carbs=28.8 cals
Total cals= 247.1

Chicken breast 200g
Protein 49.6g=198.4 cals
Fat 2g=18 cals
Carbs 0g= 0 cals
Total cals=216 cals

Chicken breast 200g
Protein 49.6g=198.4 cals
Fat 2g=18 cals
Carbs 0g= 0 cals
Total cals=216 cals

Optimum nutrition 100% whey 62g
Prot 50g= 200 cals
Fat 2g= 18 cals
Carbs 6g= 25 cals
Total cals= 242 cals

Total cals= 1365.73
Total carbs= 22.36g
Total fat= 68.21g
Total protein= 165.6g

Calories are a bit low but still working on it! Once i have the planing sorted i will be running it for 4 months just to monitor bf level and monitor the scale for weight loss/weight gain and adjust accordingly till i get the hang of it before running a cycle

great stuff bro. +1 for getting on it so quickly.

Remember you can still add some carbs to this if you want to up calories. Currently you are on minimal carbs... unless of-course this is part of your keto prep?

Keto is hard! i struggled my ass off and still have not succeeded in getting it right.

i promise within 4 months you'll see results. Also keep in mind you trying to lose fat. So keep your calories 50 below maintenance and you should see results. Thereafter you can go for 500 over maintenance when you are ready to cycle.