Truth about Esters

Hi All,

I wonder if I can get some clarity, Ive been doing some research and through trying different doses of test at different intervals I would like to know.

For EG for Cypionate any steroid cycle user would advise two weekly doses and at max length one dose per week, I find this strange as I only start to feel the test after week 5, Why is this. Then point two is that the length of time to start PCT after a Cyp cycle is like more than 30 days which would tell me it lasts long in our system, Surely injecting every week would then build up test levels more and more every week?

I also found that if you look at the instructions from Pfizer on their depo test which is a Cyp they recommend a monthly shot.

Whats the deal here and reasoning behind all this conflicting info

From my understanding.
On a test cyp: “2 shots” once a week Monday 250mg/Thursday 250mg. From what guys have seen is that. From the 1st pin to the 2nd pin. On a graphically view. Theres a stable rise of test in the body.
And not one big up nd down view when pinning once a week.

However it doesn’t matter weather you pin once or twice a week.
Twice is for a stable test release what most guys prefer.

Test c & e kicks in at around week 5.

On your test depo by pfzier. Those leaflets are for your users on trt and not designed for us gear users.

Other guys can share the opinions here

Test C half life is about 8 days. So, as I understand, after 8 days you have around 50% of the initial dose in your system, at 16 days, 25% of the initial dose, 24 days, 12.5% etc. That's why you do a long break into PCT to allow the test to clear your system, it's pointless trying to restart your system when you still have exogenous test floating around.

Your body normally produces testosterone on a daily basis, it makes more sense to try replicate this. Also, in my experience, injecting once a week causes peaks and troughs, it seems reasonable to me that you would want to keep a stable high to high normal level as opposed to high and low. Twice weekly jabs with Test C or E, daily with Test P work for me.

As stated, the more frequent shots are to keep the plasma blood levels more stable - if you want a more visual representation (not accurate, but should help get the point across) I like the way a rectified DC signal is shown with and without capacitors to smooth the outpu:.



The solid line being your levels when you pin twice a week, vs the striped line being when you pin once a week. The difference is not quite that extreme but it should help get the point across in a visual manner.

Yes, the test continues to build up in your system for a few weeks before it stabilizes, to keep things simple lets use an example of how many mg of test is in your system - one again not accurate but should help get the point across:

Day 1 you pin 500mg of test, by day 7 your test has dropped from 500mg to 200mg. On day 7 you pin 500mg and you end up with 700mg of test in your system.
Day 14 your test is down to 400mg, you pin 500mg and you are now sitting on 900mg of test in your system and so forth until it reaches a plateau of sorts and stabilizes.
This is also how frontloading works in a way, a big initial boost to try get your levels up quicker then you lower your levels to allow it to stabilize.

Due to the half life, and the amount you pin (the same amount over a week) it reaches a maximum level after a few weeks and hovers around there. It cannot continue to increase as the "old test" reaches it half life and gets worked out your system.
This is the same for why it is recommended you wait x amount of days before starting your PCT - you have all this test in your system at "different stages of their half life", think of it like the test shots you did are expiring at different times. As they expire your test drops and it takes a few weeks for enough test to "expire" and for your overall test level to be within a normal range and for your body to be happy with the levels and therefore for the PCT to have a higher chance of success.

As for Pfizer's recommendation, well, even recently there have been quite a few "discoveries" with regards to TRT and what protocol works best. John Crisler was doing quite a lot of research into TRT and the side effects and what may work best up until he passed away earlier this year. Some of his research is actually very interesting - like when to pin your HCG and test shots, most people do it on the same day as their test shots and he found / thought doing it a day before I think it was, yielded better results. I have stumbled upon a few forums of people trying out some of his newer protocols and reading their experience I found interesting - some much preferred it and helped them in terms of their sex drive and mood and so forth. Everybody is different and reacts differently to substances in general and it appears even more so to hormones.


Pfizer's way of doing things is more old school and not quite updated yet I feel.
The same still happens with cycles, guys recommending the old way of thinking like using Nolvadex to reduce estrogen levels. Nolvadex is not an AI although this practice seemed fairly popular a few years ago and I guess people just did not know better back then and the internet was not as easily accessible a few years ago compared to now etc. etc.

Things change, more research is done and improvements are found.

PsyCLown wrote: John Crisler was doing quite a lot of research into TRT and the side effects and what may work best up until he passed away earlier this year. Some of his research is actually very interesting - like when to pin your HCG and test shots, most people do it on the same day as their test shots and he found / thought doing it a day before I think it was, yielded better results. I have stumbled upon a few forums of people trying out some of his newer protocols and reading their experience I found interesting - some much preferred it and helped them in terms of their sex drive and mood and so forth. Everybody is different and reacts differently to substances in general and it appears even more so to hormones.

Dr John Crisler is not dead :lol: .

Great info thanks bud that clears a lot up

Donky Kong wrote: Great info thanks bud that clears a lot up

Take into account it all looks good on paper regarding half life and stable levels etc. but everyone is different in some way as to how their body breaks down the ester. But 2 shots spread evenly across the week is without a doubt one of the best ways to keep things as stable as possible and is most common with cypionate. Some people might see better stable levels doing it 3 or 4 times a week. Listen to your body and seeing how you feel is one of the most important skills you can learn when it comes to AAS as well as training or nutrition.

The issue of Nolvadex vs AI’s has yet to be resolved and of course is very individual. The argument for the former which is not in dispute is that we need a reasonable level of estrogen to grow and for heart health etc. in fact highish estrogen isn’t an issue if you are on gear because the ratio of test to estrogen should still be high. The issue is if you experience side effects like onset of gyno, water retention, libido issues, fatigue etc. Nolvadex binds to the estrogen receptors (especially in the breast tissue) largely preventing Gyno and in my experience many of the other sides). So if your overall estrogen is slightly on the high side and you start Gyno, the research, in my view, suggests you only need Nolvadex. On the other hand (and this applies to me unfortunately) my estrogen levels are sky high even on TRT. To stay in range I need 50mg ed of Aromasin (however crazy that sounds, but the bloods don’t lie). The problem is it’s a fine line between controlling estrogen and crashing it when you need high dosing. I have found the best option is lower dose Aromasin (still high by normal standard at 25g ed)(could be Anastrozole or Letrozole but I prefer Aromasin), and Nolvadex. This way I am still out of the reference range (about 10-20% above top end of the range), I grow better and have no side effects. I only crash my estrogen in the couple of weeks before a show to assist with fat loss (the one thing the Nolvadex,doesn’t help with in me)