First cycle, all the questions.

Hello.

As per the title I am considering a first cycle, I hope I've posted this in the right place and my apologies in advance for asking so many questions in one go. Please feel free to answer one aspect only if you wish. [the square brackets are the answers to those questions as I think I understand them]

Background

I am 1.82m
85kg
around 12% body fat (some veins at the bottom of my abs)
24 years old

Bench/squat/dead-lift = 110/140/180 for singles.


The cycle I am considering:

Day 0 to day 80
Test 250mg every 5 days or 200mg every 4 days

Day 108- 115
Clomid 100mg/day

Day 116- 134
Hcg 500iu E2d
Day 116- 145
Nova 20mg/day

My barrage of question:

How long should I wait before pct?
[Anabolics SA recommend 30 days, more generally the recommendation is 2 weeks.]

Test cyp or enth?
[best I can tell its not a big difference, but enth is slightly more active per mg as it is shorter/lighter, at the same time cyp has slightly longer half-life, that said I'm leaning slightly more towards enth]

Should I be taking hcg while on cycle and is it worth it during PCT?

I am prone to hair loss, would taking a 5AR blocker (finasteride) to inhibit DHT conversion be appropriate/ worthwhile?

If one uses a 5AR blocker one will limit dht conversion and so push free T up higher, does this mean I should use a reduced T dose? If the dose is not reduced then there is more free T to convert to estrogen, should an AI be used as a preventative measure or only when symptoms of high estrogen are present?

I am also prone to acne, is there any way to avoid androgen induced acne beyond proper hygiene?
[no]

What Anti estrogen is recommended to have on hand in case of gyno/ libido issues?
[Arimidex, but why not Letrozole]

What is the point of an oral preload? If used should you consider making your cycle shorter? Why not use test suspension as a preload?

Where can I get blood tests done? How vital are they? How much do they cost?
[lancet, pretty vital, ?]

Donating blood while on cycle. Is it potentially harmful to those who your blood may go to?
[From what I've read its fine, and good for your health]

What is your opinion on subcutaneous test injections as apposed to intramuscular?

Why would one use a test mix over a single ester?

Any supplements recommended other than the creatine, fish oil and protein I'm already taking?

I hope you take the time to read up on all of these questions and see the proper answers and reasoning behind why you do things and that noone spoon feeds you

For a number of these things I'm finding contradictions, for instance the mixed test vs single ester, there seems to be a marketing influence there.

Some say hcg is only worth it during cycle and will actually lead to suppression during PCT. Others say its basically vital. I know it suppresses LH, so its use in pct doesn't sound convincing to me even though it is very popular.

Many people say not to do a pct after sarm cycles because LH and FSH are still in range and its just test that is low so things will restore themselves, but Derek (the guy from that other video) recommends a pct for all sarm cycles. Anecdotally there are people claiming permanent shut down from mild sarm cycles as well as people claiming full recovery from 12 week lgd cycles at 10-15mg with no pct.

Honestly even if someone answered every question without sources I will still check them up, im in no hurry and still have some reading to do.

I have read the pertinent sections of "Anabolics 10e" and "underground anabolics" both by William Llewellyn.

That said perhaps I should instead have asked "What book/ resource do you guys recommend if I want to learn about pharma"

Thanks, I've been following MPMD for a while but had missed this one.

For anyone who doesn't have the time to watch the vid the take aways are this:

1) Yes, a 5AR blocker will increase free test. (other research says 15% increase)
2) T is still androgenic and still effects your hair follicle (but much less than DHT)
3) Derek recommends topical ketoconazole (I already use this, it helped with acne when I was younger) he also recommends RU58841, but I don't know where one would get that.
4) Get androgen levels under control before you try to enhance hair growth.

Letro is quite harsh, I'd only use it if needed. I only use aromasin and I've never had any issues.
Using short ester test as a is a valid option, for first time use I wouldn't worry about it too much. You probably don't want to stick a needle in yourself EOD if you just starting out. Personally I just used test C and waited the 4-6 weeks for it to kick in. If you want you can use an oral for the first 4 weeks to kickstart your cycle, Tbol is a good recommendation. Don't complicate things more than you need to though, just stick to the test 250mg twice a week and oral if you want to. Your gains will be really good if your diet and training are on point.

HCG, it's your first cycle so usually your hormones will bounce back quickly. It becomes more difficult for your body to get back to its natural level as quickly after a few cycles, but usually you will recover. HCG is beneficial, but I wouldn't say necessary.

Not a fan of subq, it usually causes some redness and pain in the area, I've had a subq leak when I just started, where I was being stupid and didn't pin deep enough (basically just pierced the skin) and the oil will actually travel. For me it happened in my quad - was red and sore. Went away after a few days.
That being said, once you pin, unless you're obese you should almost immediately be in the muscle. So you don't have to go super deep and jam the whole needle into you.

Ester blends - it depends.
If it's a mixture of different testosterone's it's usually g2g.
Once it becomes a high mg mixture of multiple compounds per ml, pinning can be very painful

Great, seems like I am collecting square brackets.

Is 500mg/week not higher than necessary for a first cycle? I've been told to stay under 350/week for a first cycle and up it from there.



Thank you DruOmedra for the help so far.

john.elton wrote: Great, seems like I am collecting square brackets.

Is 500mg/week not higher than necessary for a first cycle? I've been told to stay under 350/week for a first cycle and up it from there.



Thank you DruOmedra for the help so far.

If your gear is legit 350 is enough. If you want to be on the cautious side you can start lower. You might not even need an AI if your dose is low enough. That's why bloodwork is important. Ideally, but quite a hassle.
Pre cycle bloods, 8 weeks in cycle bloods and post cycle post PCT post everything bloods. But that's a lot of bloods. Up to you really.
350 is still going to put you above what any natural man can produce.

If this is really your 1st cycle with no bullshit, do 500mg test a week.

Arimidex on hand. Post here if you think you need it and we will advise accordingly.

Finasteride is a horrible drug, depression & pap piel is very possible. I do not have hair loss issues, so i cant advise what to use, we all differ. The other guys will assist what should be the safest.

Use a single ester test, Cyp is recommended for a 1st time user. There is a difference with the esters in my body, and i don't give a shit what google say. I have real life xp and can see what the sides are based on what what ester test i use. Each to their own, i can only advise what i have seen.

Prone to acne - what product are you using? Not all oils used in gear is of the same quality, and this also can have a huge impact. I also see you like more free test by using x, y or z. That free test your "freeing up" wont make shit, you wont even know.

Preload- u will kak if you use suspension for a 1st time user... NOT recommended. If you want to preload with an oral, we can discuss.

Sub q - i cant use this with any oils based gear, as it causes infection that's lasts more than 2 weeks.

test mix - Don't use test mix for a 1st cycle, each ester have their own positives and negatives you have to learn. Do it right from day 1.

Donating blood is always a good thing if you know you don't do other shit.

PCT - follow what this page tells you, if you don't want to, good luck.

A friend of mine got me to buy them lgd. I may do a cycle of that after my test cycle depending on how his gains compare to mine.

Otherwise I have never taken anabolics.

On further research finasteride does sound horrible, but I don't really mind going bald. My father was already balding by the age I am now.

Great I will go with Cyp, the slightly longer half life probably makes for more even T levels.

I say I'm prone to acne because I was a walking pimple factory as a teen, I went on roaccutane which solved the problem mostly.

I will not worry about any increase in free T from taking ancillaries.

I don't think I will take orals for a while, I'd like to explore just the test at first. I'm in no great hurry and should make more gains in 12 weeks than I've ever made in such a short period anyway.

I will give subQ a shot after I'm used to IM and see for myself. But I doubt it will be the system I use.


Thanks for sharing your real world experience.

Hormonas wrote: I hope you take the time to read up on all of these questions and see the proper answers and reasoning behind why you do things and that noone spoon feeds you

Apologies for the 'shortness' here... I saw all of the questions and assumed you had done no research, without looking at the entire post properly.

Looks like you've got some good responses here, good luck with your cycle man

No worries. It's a dangerous game and far too many people go in blind. I got where you were coming from.

And yeah, I've got some gold from this thread.

Thanks for the wishes. I'm only going to start my cycle towards the end of November when work is a bit quiet and it's that much easier to keep diet on point.

I'll post a follow up when my cycle finishes if anyone is interested in first cycle results? I'm sure there's posts like that all over the place though.

Hi, I think you have already started your cycle. I would like to ask you about using HGH. I am new to bodybuilding, I have been doing it for 1 year. I saw this article about HGH - pharmahgh.org/hgh-blog/effect-of-growth-...sm-during-trainings/ and I was interested to try using it. I saw in the topic that you considered human growth hormone as a sports supplement, can I finally get an opinion on this issue?

innukynoxe wrote: Hi, I think you have already started your cycle. I would like to ask you about using HGH. I am new to bodybuilding, I have been doing it for 1 year. I saw this article about HGH - pharmahgh.org/hgh-blog/effect-of-growth-...sm-during-trainings/ and I was interested to try using it. I saw in the topic that you considered human growth hormone as a sports supplement, can I finally get an opinion on this issue?

My opinion... If you have any diereses or cancer relate issues, you will shorten your time to the grave by 50%. Bloodtest is a must before you to HGH, take it, leave it , your choice.