TRT Dosage, Timing & SARMS

Hey hi

I've had numerous blood tests over the years and every time my test levels come back as very low. Finally I've given in and my doc wants to put me on TRT which I'm perfectly fine with but I'm a bit worried about the dosage and timing.

He wants to do 200mg depo every 4 weeks which seems very low. I asked if I could do it at least weekly instead, for more stable levels, but he insisted we do it every month. He didn't mention anything about upping it as we go. Is it usual to start at 200mg per month?

I've never taken any anabolics before (I've only used gw-501516) so having a small test base has got me thinking about doing a cycle of something over it, seeing as I won't need PCT, but I don't want to mess with my blood work too much. Would RAD-140 cause any change to my test levels when I go for more blood work?

Thanks

Hi there.

What do your blood results look like and stats?

You sure he said depot and not undecoanate? If he did, change your doc. Just google half life of testosterone cypionate and ask him what he expects you should feel like after day 12 when the Test C effect is virtually non- existent in your system and you have another 18 days before the next shot. I can't believe with all the information out there idiots like this stick to this protocol. Your body naturally produces test daily, surely it makes sense to at least try come close to replicating this. NO, it's not usual to start at that at all. 100mg/week, possibly 50mg twice per week would be the usual script, going anywhere form there up to 200mg/week.

I would run your TRT for at least 2 months before adding anything else in there. First get yourself dialed in then start playing around with adding gear or blasting if that is what you want to do. If you add compounds in the beginning you'll never know what is causing which reaction. Getting stable on TRT is tough, it's pointless making it more complicated.

Good luck.

On longer term once your testosterone is stable rather go the underground route as this will cost less than R200 a month while doing via a Doctor more than a R1000 a month. I test my blood twice a year and some of the underground manufacturers in SA product very good quality.

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Triton wrote: On longer term once your testosterone is stable rather go the underground route as this will cost less than R200 a month while doing via a Doctor more than a R1000 a month. I test my blood twice a year and some of the underground manufacturers in SA product very good quality.

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If purely for try, pharma grade is the way to go, sometimes, the best ug labs f-up, they not regulated and shit happens.

Mfezdro wrote: Hi there.

What do your blood results look like and stats?

You sure he said depot and not undecoanate? If he did, change your doc. Just google half life of testosterone cypionate and ask him what he expects you should feel like after day 12 when the Test C effect is virtually non- existent in your system and you have another 18 days before the next shot. I can't believe with all the information out there idiots like this stick to this protocol. Your body naturally produces test daily, surely it makes sense to at least try come close to replicating this. NO, it's not usual to start at that at all. 100mg/week, possibly 50mg twice per week would be the usual script, going anywhere form there up to 200mg/week.

I would run your TRT for at least 2 months before adding anything else in there. First get yourself dialed in then start playing around with adding gear or blasting if that is what you want to do. If you add compounds in the beginning you'll never know what is causing which reaction. Getting stable on TRT is tough, it's pointless making it more complicated.

Good luck.

6'3" in the low 90s. Probably 13-15% BF. Age 29. Yeah, not fun to be dealing with this at 29 :dry:

Results were:
DHEAS - 9.9 umol/l
Total T - 6.7 nmol/l
SHBG - 44.2 nmol/l
Free T - 105.7 pmol/l
THS - 1.86 mIU/l

We tested for a bunch of other stuff but I'm not sure that any of them are relevant. I asked for all sorts of tests just to know whats going on with my body.

Its definitely Dopo (cypionate), he didn't seem to even be familiar with Cypionate when I brought it up as an option. He just knew of Depo and the Nebido. He then whipped out one of his med books and weirdly enough there was 'Cypionate - 3-4 weeks' so I don't know if his book is a few decades behind on this or what the story is there.

I'm meeting another doc tomorrow to pick her brain and try my best to explain my concerns. Hopefully its not a dead end.

Triton wrote: On longer term once your testosterone is stable rather go the underground route as this will cost less than R200 a month while doing via a Doctor more than a R1000 a month. I test my blood twice a year and some of the underground manufacturers in SA product very good quality.

Sent from my SM-A205F using Tapatalk

I have considered that, but honestly the vial I got from the prescription was only R400 and my doc won't charge me to show up for a shot or sometimes at all. He's a good guy, works in the same building, but just doesn't seem to know enough about this particular thing. Unfortunately he's got the vial, so perhaps its just a case of me requesting to take it home and do the shots myself and more frequently. After all, I'd need it if I were to leave for vacation or something, but its also the dosage that concerns me. 50mg per week minus the oil... If I recall correctly, that itself would then be less than what the average male produces.

El wrote: but its also the dosage that concerns me. 50mg per week minus the oil... If I recall correctly, that itself would then be less than what the average male produces.

So that's 70mg of test cyp per week. Yea I wouldn't be happy. But it's 2019 and any more and you're at risk of contracting Toxic Masculinity™ :lol: .

If the amount actually eventually absorbed into the bloodstream was 100% (bioavailability) then that dose would be ok for many guys. But the bioavailability is probably closer to 80-90% max or less depending on injection site. There was a study comparing bioavailability of nandrolone after injecting into various sites and it varied from just over to 50-70%.

Thanks for the stats. I’m not sure which labs you used so can’t comment in detail on levels without ranges but those numbers are low at your age. Also your SHBG is fairly high making less T available. No E2 results......50mg/week is too low. Start at 100. You are paying and it’s your health, do some research to back up your argument and don’t give in.
I’d stick with the pharma if you’re happy to pay. Just get a couple bottles of reputable UG for when pharma have stock issues, it happens.
Good luck with the second opinion, I’m interested in what they say.

Mfezdro wrote: Thanks for the stats. I’m not sure which labs you used so can’t comment in detail on levels without ranges but those numbers are low at your age.

Ampath.

There is a 'reference' beside the results which I assumed is the range for what are considered normal levels?

For Total Test is says the reference is 9.0-28.3
For Free Test is is 170-660
SHGB says 13.3-89.5

Thanks. Your levels are seriously low. Did they test LH and FSH? It’s a good idea to dig out the cause for your low levels and see if you’re primary or secondary hypogonadal. I’m sure you need TRT but I’d think it’s important to try find out why as well.
I’d be surprised if 100mg/week was enough to get your levels to high normal, more importantly feeling good. Keep us updated.

You really should see a different doc, preferably and endocrinologist. It's mind boggling that your doc would test your hormone levels but not your LH and FSH considering your situation.

If your LH is on the higher end that points to the problem being with the testes (primary). If it's low then it points to the hypothalamus or pituitary gland (secondary). Clomid therapy can help if it's secondary but not if the problem is testicular. Many affected guys can maintain a very good total T at a dose 25mg/day, some at even 25mg EOD.

There are so many threads all over TRT forums, stating that while clomid does raise T on secondary guys, its not "felt". Usually after a month or 2 one feels like pre clomid monotherapy, yet with normal\high T levels. My personal experience concurs, even though I really really wanted clomid to work.

Clomid consists of 2 stereo isomers (mirror images of each other), Enclomiphene and Zuclomiphene. Enclomiphene has a short half life of only a few hours and is responsible for the T increase. The other isomer, Zuclomiphene has a half life of around 10 days to a month depending on the study, and over time builds up. Ratios of 22:1 Zuc:Enc after a couple months were found in one study. Clomid also causes SHBG to increase quite a bit. These two factors are probably responsible for the negation of higher T benefits.

Other than for PCT, Clomid monotherapy is simply wasting time for most people.

Yes most of guys don't respond very well to clomid monotherapy, but it does work for many. Even if it is only successful in 25% of guys it is worth trying if you are young and care about your fertility. The OP is only 29. Shooting blanks might not be ideal.

Mfezdro wrote: Thanks. Your levels are seriously low. Did they test LH and FSH? It’s a good idea to dig out the cause for your low levels and see if you’re primary or secondary hypogonadal. I’m sure you need TRT but I’d think it’s important to try find out why as well.
I’d be surprised if 100mg/week was enough to get your levels to high normal, more importantly feeling good. Keep us updated.

Muscleaddict wrote: You really should see a different doc, preferably and endocrinologist. It's mind boggling that your doc would test your hormone levels but not your LH and FSH considering your situation.

If your LH is on the higher end that points to the problem being with the testes (primary). If it's low then it points to the hypothalamus or pituitary gland (secondary). Clomid therapy can help if it's secondary but not if the problem is testicular. Many affected guys can maintain a very good total T at a dose 25mg/day, some at even 25mg EOD.

He didn't test for either of those but the doc I visited today did so I'm just waiting on those LH/FSH results. She will also contact an Endo for an opinion on this other doc's TRT protocol for me. Also not incredibly clued up on the topic as far as dosing and timing is concerned, but at least far more interested in what I have to say and figuring out the correct solution.

I'd have gone straight to the Endo from the beginning but A) I expected my doc to know more, B ) Couldn't get an appointment anywhere for months, and C) I'd previously been to an Endo years ago who was very dismissive of my problems because of my age (this was about 5 years ago). I clearly don't have luck with doctors :dry: