When to up the dose?

Hi guys, always been a fan of recommended dose cycles, 500-600 test, 600 EQ, 200 tren e etc
The thought process with me has always been to try and achieve as much as you can with a lower dose. Less side effects etc.

Been cycling on and off for almost 4 years now. I've started stagnating though. I'm really struggling to get over the 93~ kg mark, maybe I'll fluctuate a bit, but even with force feeding, I feel like I'm just at my limit. Granted I started at 60 kg's, so maybe that's why. Could be approaching my limit? I'm 5'6" 30 years old

I'm running 500 test/400 deca/400 EQ and 15mg of MK677. Can I simply increase my dose of ML677 to 30mg a day? Or should I try to increase everything slightly? Maybe Test 600/EQ 600/Deca 500?

I'm primarily training for powerlifting. Trying to move as much weight as possible.

That is some big doses of steroids. I'd get myself to 150kgs with a gear dose of that and the right food.

bro that is waaay too much gear for someone your weight. there is clearly something missing in your diet and training.

DruOmedra wrote: The thought process with me has always been to try and achieve as much as you can with a lower dose.

No bud, your doses don’t suggest this at all!

Fuck. I figured those were recommended/normal doses. Most of the forums I frequent people are using doses higher than that, I guess it became 'normalized' to see those doses then.

Alright, I guess I need to re-assess things then. Back to the drawing board.

So, I'll keep my doses the same, maybe even dial it back slightly? So what can I do about food intake then? I really do eat a lot already, sometimes to the point of stomach pain. That's why I was thinking, is this my limit? If I could somehow stimulate appetite or remove that feeling of 'getting full'. Or do I just throw more calories in, even if they're from subpar sources? Like junk food?

00pump wrote: That is some big doses of steroids. I'd get myself to 150kgs with a gear dose of that and the right food.

Darn, I'm def doing something wrong then. I always thought being so short (168cm) and 93kg's was 'impressive'. I guess not, not at all then.

So what is the limit? When I started I was 60kg's, now 93 and my BF is, honestly only like 2% more than when I started. Granted that is from years of bulking and cutting. Can I reasonably expect to still pickup a lot more weight? 60-90 is a 33% increase. Can I make it to 100? 110? 120? Doubling my starting weight? That'd be like a dream come true. I can't imagine doubling my body weight, blows my mind.

DruOmedra wrote: Fuck. I figured those were recommended/normal doses. Most of the forums I frequent people are using doses higher than that, I guess it became 'normalized' to see those doses then.

Alright, I guess I need to re-assess things then. Back to the drawing board.

So, I'll keep my doses the same, maybe even dial it back slightly? So what can I do about food intake then? I really do eat a lot already, sometimes to the point of stomach pain. That's why I was thinking, is this my limit? If I could somehow stimulate appetite or remove that feeling of 'getting full'. Or do I just throw more calories in, even if they're from subpar sources? Like junk food?

Pharma aside. How does your body composition change on TRT level doses?
If your body composition and strength go to shit - the gear is doing the work and your diet and training are weak points.

If you are truly near a genetic limit, yes try "junk food" or anything fast absorbing. People may disagree, but if you are eating fast acting carbs at the wrong time, doesn't matter if it is junk food or "clean carbs" (whatever the fuck that mean), you are causing the same damage.

93kg at 5'6 is quite full. If you are strongly an ectomorph, maybe you can't go further, but you probably can. What is your bf%?

I am a hard gainer and small now. I went from 67kgs to around 150. 1 gram test 1 gram deca and allot of growth hormone (way to much gear) and I'll never touch deca again. We never worked with fats as a focus point, but everything was focused around protein which i consumed way to much of and put loads of strain on my kidneys.

Empire has dosing and diet waxed these days, the dosing he got comp ready for his last show was a fraction of what guys use. He came in such good shape last show with no side effects, no blood pressure issues, just dialed in on his diet and didn't miss a leg day.

But then again I'm 6.4" and was a twig when I started.

DruOmedra wrote:

00pump wrote: That is some big doses of steroids. I'd get myself to 150kgs with a gear dose of that and the right food.

Darn, I'm def doing something wrong then. I always thought being so short (168cm) and 93kg's was 'impressive'. I guess not, not at all then.

So what is the limit? When I started I was 60kg's, now 93 and my BF is, honestly only like 2% more than when I started. Granted that is from years of bulking and cutting. Can I reasonably expect to still pickup a lot more weight? 60-90 is a 33% increase. Can I make it to 100? 110? 120? Doubling my starting weight? That'd be like a dream come true. I can't imagine doubling my body weight, blows my mind.

Guys like us on gear often focus too much on scale weight, especially when we set cycle goals in scale weight like most of have. But in reality, if you're strong and ripped, then 93kg is brilliant for 5'6". If you're strong but haven't seen your abs in years then the only one who'd care is another Oros man.

Don't beat yourself up and maybe re-evaluate your short term goals to something more realistic. Slow and steady wins the race. Dexter Jackson is 5'6" and was probably about 93kg stage weight when he turned pro at about 30 years old. That's impressive... In his next 20 years he didn't even gain more than 20kg lean muscle tops and he has some of the best genetics in the world.

Lastly, if you're primarily training for powerlifting, low reps strength training is not close to being as effective as higher rep bodybuilding style training if you want maximum muscle hypertrophy. Stick to low reps just for the big 3 lifts and don't push 1RM more than every couple of months, and stick with higher reps for all accessory exercises. Look at how jacked powerlifters like Stan Efferding, Dan Green, the Lilliebridge boys train. Mostly bodybuilding style.

post up your diet and training and stats, body fat %, etc. I think you are probably a good candidate for now more than 700mg per week. I am 99kgs at 1.83 I am using now 450mg total a week, 200mg equi and 250mg test at 2850 calories, and body fat is coming down and strength is going up.

MPhilosopher wrote:

DruOmedra wrote: Fuck. I figured those were recommended/normal doses. Most of the forums I frequent people are using doses higher than that, I guess it became 'normalized' to see those doses then.

Alright, I guess I need to re-assess things then. Back to the drawing board.

So, I'll keep my doses the same, maybe even dial it back slightly? So what can I do about food intake then? I really do eat a lot already, sometimes to the point of stomach pain. That's why I was thinking, is this my limit? If I could somehow stimulate appetite or remove that feeling of 'getting full'. Or do I just throw more calories in, even if they're from subpar sources? Like junk food?

Pharma aside. How does your body composition change on TRT level doses?
If your body composition and strength go to shit - the gear is doing the work and your diet and training are weak points.

If you are truly near a genetic limit, yes try "junk food" or anything fast absorbing. People may disagree, but if you are eating fast acting carbs at the wrong time, doesn't matter if it is junk food or "clean carbs" (whatever the fuck that mean), you are causing the same damage.

93kg at 5'6 is quite full. If you are strongly an ectomorph, maybe you can't go further, but you probably can. What is your bf%?

I've never actually cruised yet. I was planning to this time around, then lockdown happened and I went off for 4 months. Lost 7kg's, but I became very lax with my diet and didn't train at all. I've just been cycling, time on = time off etc. When I'm done with this test/deca/eq cycle I'll cruise on 150 and see where that puts me. Like you said, if I completely shrink up, definitely something elsewhere is flawed. I have heard its easier to maintain your physique on TRT, even if you built it up using other compounds.

As for bodyfat %, if I'm brutally honest with myself, 15% +-, I'm not ripped, but you can see my top 4 abs quite clearly.

00pump wrote: I am a hard gainer and small now. I went from 67kgs to around 150. 1 gram test 1 gram deca and allot of growth hormone (way to much gear) and I'll never touch deca again. We never worked with fats as a focus point, but everything was focused around protein which i consumed way to much of and put loads of strain on my kidneys.

Empire has dosing and diet waxed these days, the dosing he got comp ready for his last show was a fraction of what guys use. He came in such good shape last show with no side effects, no blood pressure issues, just dialed in on his diet and didn't miss a leg day.

But then again I'm 6.4" and was a twig when I started.

That's incredible. People who didn't see you for years probably thought you were a completely different person lol. Yeah 6'4" is a huge frame, but I've noticed people with bigger frames look like monsters once they fill out. 150 is hyooooge.

I've never tried hgh or slin or anything like that. Not against it though, just never got around to using it. Seemed like it's something I could mess up if not careful.

Muscleaddict wrote:

DruOmedra wrote:

00pump wrote: That is some big doses of steroids. I'd get myself to 150kgs with a gear dose of that and the right food.

Darn, I'm def doing something wrong then. I always thought being so short (168cm) and 93kg's was 'impressive'. I guess not, not at all then.

So what is the limit? When I started I was 60kg's, now 93 and my BF is, honestly only like 2% more than when I started. Granted that is from years of bulking and cutting. Can I reasonably expect to still pickup a lot more weight? 60-90 is a 33% increase. Can I make it to 100? 110? 120? Doubling my starting weight? That'd be like a dream come true. I can't imagine doubling my body weight, blows my mind.

Guys like us on gear often focus too much on scale weight, especially when we set cycle goals in scale weight like most of have. But in reality, if you're strong and ripped, then 93kg is brilliant for 5'6". If you're strong but haven't seen your abs in years then the only one who'd care is another Oros man.

Don't beat yourself up and maybe re-evaluate your short term goals to something more realistic. Slow and steady wins the race. Dexter Jackson is 5'6" and was probably about 93kg stage weight when he turned pro at about 30 years old. That's impressive... In his next 20 years he didn't even gain more than 20kg lean muscle tops and he has some of the best genetics in the world.

Lastly, if you're primarily training for powerlifting, low reps strength training is not close to being as effective as higher rep bodybuilding style training if you want maximum muscle hypertrophy. Stick to low reps just for the big 3 lifts and don't push 1RM more than every couple of months, and stick with higher reps for all accessory exercises. Look at how jacked powerlifters like Stan Efferding, Dan Green, the Lilliebridge boys train. Mostly bodybuilding style.

Yeah... This is very true information. I think that's the perspective that I needed.

I think I will change my training up as well. I think I get too fixated on x,y and z. "Last time I weighed this, so this time I need to weigh this or im not making gains" Last time I benched this so this time I need to bench this"
at what point are we ever satisfied?

Empire wrote: post up your diet and training and stats, body fat %, etc. I think you are probably a good candidate for now more than 700mg per week. I am 99kgs at 1.83 I am using now 450mg total a week, 200mg equi and 250mg test at 2850 calories, and body fat is coming down and strength is going up.

Okay.
I don't have a 'set' diet plan. I usually aim to hit certain numbers daily. I usually try to hit 3500-4000 calories a day and I generally end up at around 160~ grams of protein, sometimes slightly less, sometimes a moderate amount more, depends on what I eat. I used to track carbs and fats as well, but stopped, because my goal was always getting bigger/stronger so as long as my lifts went up and my weight went up, in my mind - I was getting results.

But I'll list what I ate today thus far and you guys can critique it, maybe it's terrible;

Weetbix with milk and sugar
Coffee
750ml water while exercising. Today was leg day
Post workout shake (I don't really believe in the post workout window period, but I do like to drink it at this time) I use the USN Hardcore Whey, I blend 1.5 scoops with water, milk and peanut butter
Nandos Double Chicken Burger Meal (with a coke)
Coffee again

I believe that puts me around 2300 for the day so far and 100 protein, and it's now 2pm


Maybe I need to take macro tracking more seriously again?

Anyways, my current lifts

Bench: 175 (this is my favorite lift, if I could only do 1 exercise for the rest of my life, this is it)
Squat: 140
Dead: 160

Squats and deads are disproportionate I know, but I just put it down to either being weak in those movements, or just being a good bench presser. I don't know.

Can't edit the above post, rest of my diet so far was;

I had hake and fries, a protein bar, ham/cheese mayo sandwhiches and eating beef goulash right now.

I would estimate that puts me at just over 3000 now. I still have a fair amount of eating to do tonight and another shake. So I'll probably hit 3800~ today.

so DruOmedra, diet, and training is the majority of the work, and you have given us 3 stats, but have not laid out your training plan. break down your whole plan from start to finish, weights used, reps performed, when you take things to failure, etc.

go and look at the majority of the guys you want to look like, are they counting their macros and calories? YES. are they eating cheese and mayo sandwiches? NO. are they guestimating calorie intake? NO.

so if you want sub-par results eat sub-par food. such as what you are doing. your Diet should be 80-85% unprocessed foods.

potato
rice
oats
fruit
veggies
meats such as chicken, beef, lean pork, lean mutton, fish, tuna, eggs and egg whites, cottage cheese.

fats from oils, nuts avos

that should make up the bulk of your diet. remember crap food produces crap results. you seem to have it the other way around.

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/2-anabo...opin-alfa-and-test-e

this will give you a better idea as to why guesstimation is a shit idea.