Newbie to PED's - need some advice on high E2

Hi Guys

Hope you all are well. I am a new member and just want to introduce myself first. I am a 46 year old male, weight 93kg and are 1,78cm tall.

I started my first cycle 3 weeks back and are using 500mg Test E a week. I try to educate myself more everyday about the usage of PED's. I hope some of you can maybe help me on a queastion that i have. I will be very greatfull for any help.

My question is as follow.

I did blood work recently and all look good, except for my E2 and its ratio to my Free Testosterone. Can you guys please advive if I need to take an AI and what I need to take please.

My blood work results was as follow.

E2 - 329
Total testosterone - 52.05
SHBG - 63.46
Free testosterone - 923.30

I did the blood work, the morning before my fist injection for the week.

Thank you so much in advance and enjoy your day

Regards

Shooter C wrote: Hi Guys

Hope you all are well. I am a new member and just want to introduce myself first. I am a 46 year old male, weight 93kg and are 1,78cm tall.

I started my first cycle 3 weeks back and are using 500mg Test E a week. I try to educate myself more everyday about the usage of PED's. I hope some of you can maybe help me on a queastion that i have. I will be very greatfull for any help.

My question is as follow.

I did blood work recently and all look good, except for my E2 and its ratio to my Free Testosterone. Can you guys please advive if I need to take an AI and what I need to take please.

My blood work results was as follow.

E2 - 329
Total testosterone - 52.05
SHBG - 63.46
Free testosterone - 923.30

I did the blood work, the morning before my fist injection for the week.

Thank you so much in advance and enjoy your day

Regards

Units of E2? pg/mL?

E2 is off the chart

Yes its 329.00 pmol/L

Thanks

I did blood work recently and all look good, except for my E2 and its ratio to my Free Testosterone. Can you guys please advice if I need to take an AI and what I need to take please.

We had this debate last week, it depends I guess. What's your BP and ur Kidney values maybe ur handling the high E2 okay-ish?

My BP and kidneys are good, I had it check while I asked the dokter to order the blood work. Only thing I can see that are a bit higher are my S-NON HDL Choslesterol which are 5.0 mmol/L instead of under 3.8.

I also have no other side affects thus far

I wouldnt touch an AI until i get sides.

Thanks for your help, it is much appreciated

Vladtheimpaler, why wait to get side effects? His E2 extremely high.

NOS wrote: Vladtheimpaler, why wait to get side effects? His E2 extremely high.

Exactly, I don't have the energy to repeat myself on this topic. E2 is a surrogate marker we use, there is many others. The effects are outright damaging to one's health, we not talking gyno, we talking cancer, stokes, blood clots, cognitive decline and and and.. What's further more in the effect it has on other hormones which all come with their own risk. It's simple, don't tank estrogen but certainly don't let it run wild, it will be one of those things like blood pressure you wish you had just brought it down to normal ranges because the risk might be irreversible. People need to stop typing in Google is low estrogen bad for you and actually take the time to understand this complex topic, it isn't something we can just put in a box.

00pump wrote:

NOS wrote: Vladtheimpaler, why wait to get side effects? His E2 extremely high.

Exactly, I don't have the energy to repeat myself on this topic. E2 is a surrogate marker we use, there is many others. The effects are outright damaging to one's health, we not talking gyno, we talking cancer, stokes, blood clots, cognitive decline and and and.. What's further more in the effect it has on other hormones which all come with their own risk. It's simple, don't tank estrogen but certainly don't let it run wild, it will be one of those things like blood pressure you wish you had just brought it down to normal ranges because the risk might be irreversible. People need to stop typing in Google is low estrogen bad for you and actually take the time to understand this complex topic, it isn't something we can just put in a box.

00pump, thank you so much fot bringing this under my attention. Can you maybe put me in the right direction on what to take and how much of it, if it is not a problem that i am asking. Do not want to brake any rules

Shooter C wrote:

00pump wrote:

NOS wrote: Vladtheimpaler, why wait to get side effects? His E2 extremely high.

Exactly, I don't have the energy to repeat myself on this topic. E2 is a surrogate marker we use, there is many others. The effects are outright damaging to one's health, we not talking gyno, we talking cancer, stokes, blood clots, cognitive decline and and and.. What's further more in the effect it has on other hormones which all come with their own risk. It's simple, don't tank estrogen but certainly don't let it run wild, it will be one of those things like blood pressure you wish you had just brought it down to normal ranges because the risk might be irreversible. People need to stop typing in Google is low estrogen bad for you and actually take the time to understand this complex topic, it isn't something we can just put in a box.

00pump, thank you so much fot bringing this under my attention. Can you maybe put me in the right direction on what to take and how much of it, if it is not a problem that i am asking. Do not want to brake any rules

Our bodies don't care for what is written on paper, they unique in their working, so there is no set amount for any compound. I would personally get myself some 5mg aromasin, take that daily and retest just my E2 after 2 weeks, see if you have over cooked it or need to ramp it up further.

This information will help you going forward as you will have a baseline saying X amount of test and Y amount of E2 support, that knowledge will grow over time and further blood work for your body.

00pump wrote:

Shooter C wrote:

00pump wrote:

NOS wrote: Vladtheimpaler, why wait to get side effects? His E2 extremely high.

Exactly, I don't have the energy to repeat myself on this topic. E2 is a surrogate marker we use, there is many others. The effects are outright damaging to one's health, we not talking gyno, we talking cancer, stokes, blood clots, cognitive decline and and and.. What's further more in the effect it has on other hormones which all come with their own risk. It's simple, don't tank estrogen but certainly don't let it run wild, it will be one of those things like blood pressure you wish you had just brought it down to normal ranges because the risk might be irreversible. People need to stop typing in Google is low estrogen bad for you and actually take the time to understand this complex topic, it isn't something we can just put in a box.

00pump, thank you so much fot bringing this under my attention. Can you maybe put me in the right direction on what to take and how much of it, if it is not a problem that i am asking. Do not want to brake any rules

Our bodies don't care for what is written on paper, they unique in their working, so there is no set amount for any compound. I would personally get myself some 5mg aromasin, take that daily and retest just my E2 after 2 weeks, see if you have over cooked it or need to ramp it up further.

This information will help you going forward as you will have a baseline saying X amount of test and Y amount of E2 support, that knowledge will grow over time and further blood work for your body.[/quote


Thanks for your help 00pump. Just one other question please. In what range do I want my E2 to drop to to be in a safe zone?

Let's take my opinion away as that's all it would be, based upon my endo who is arguably the best we have in the country doesn't have it go past 90 pmol/L, looking at a bunch of my previous results (excluding fertility as that requires estrogen to be on the low end) we sitting on average around 78-80. Everything with him is blood work around 5k a pop and he works with the numbers showing the links between values, not reading it to be in the 'middle' of a report, so drilling into any 1 area is so far off from the way in which it works. So there is no need to make assumptions about cholesterol or liver or whatever article people decide to read to base their opinions around the 'dangers' of AIs. It's bro science majority of the time and it's the same information being posted over and over.

There is enough studies showing 1mg of Arimidex a day for months treating fertility having no effect on cholesterol (and this is for the bad guy everyone speaks of), and then you have other studies stating neutral effect on total cholesterol and HDL levels and even LDL with Aromasin. The simplest way, and I have asked this a number of times to people, please show me this negative effect with your own blood work, I have yet to see a single blood sheet, yet people are happy to run elevated blood pressure, not donate blood and run with high RBC, abuse orals for long periods of time, not do any blood work on kidney function and and and...

00pump wrote: Let's take my opinion away as that's all it would be, based upon my endo who is arguably the best we have in the country doesn't have it go past 90 pmol/L, looking at a bunch of my previous results (excluding fertility as that requires estrogen to be on the low end) we sitting on average around 78-80. Everything with him is blood work around 5k a pop and he works with the numbers showing the links between values, not reading it to be in the 'middle' of a report, so drilling into any 1 area is so far off from the way in which it works. So there is no need to make assumptions about cholesterol or liver or whatever article people decide to read to base their opinions around the 'dangers' of AIs. It's bro science majority of the time and it's the same information being posted over and over.

There is enough studies showing 1mg of Arimidex a day for months treating fertility having no effect on cholesterol (and this is for the bad guy everyone speaks of), and then you have other studies stating neutral effect on total cholesterol and HDL levels and even LDL with Aromasin. The simplest way, and I have asked this a number of times to people, please show me this negative effect with your own blood work, I have yet to see a single blood sheet, yet people are happy to run elevated blood pressure, not donate blood and run with him RBC, abuse orals for long periods of time, not do any blood work on kidney function and and and...

Pretty much this.

OP read this as many times as you need it answers your concerns.

Although when T is supraphysiological, the ratio of T/E is useful, but with 330pmol/L... that is super high.
And simply finding broad haphazard arguments of estrogen being neuroprotective (and hence we should want it high) becomes a straw man argument, there is a reason estrogen supplementation is dangerous - even for women.

Thanks guys

E2 is a surrogate marker we use, there is many others. The effects are outright damaging to one's health, we not talking gyno, we talking cancer, stokes, blood clots, cognitive decline and and and..

Strokes - LesDoctor kind of explained, cancer... really high E2 and cancer, and u run growth and ur scared of high E2 for cancer... hypocritical according to the research.

"Cognitive decline ?" - Depends man, if ur like me doing high-tier statistics day in day out, keeping my mind protected is of utmost importance, high E2 is VERY neuroprotective.

E2 is neuroprotective and regulates synaptic plasticity and memory - www.jneurosci.org/content/39/15/2792
E2 is neuroprotective against neurodegenerative diseases - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3324183/
E2 and critical period hypothesis - (reassures restates the fact that multiple studies have shown that E2 is neuroprotective in the research paper)
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22079780/

You can literally type into a research journal "E2 and ...", see how many research supports it etc. Make your own conclusions but it seems to me estrogen is protective af. Each to their own I guess then. But if you are hitting grams then obviously BP becomes an issue etc. Just pick your poison wisely.

Please dont dismantle "science" E2 is protective in some aspects, and in others like BP, KIdneys etc its bad. If you have BP issues then use an AI???

NOt just that - google a bit on bone density and estrogen. I had a stress fracture last year from a 160kg squat. Reason = too low E2 and low Vitamin D3. Had me out for 6 months. SO i would argue E2 is great for bone health and anabolism.

And in the same breath high levels of estrogen effects memory. Nobody said tank it... Hormones are far more complex and our bodies do not care for what is written on case studies. If you have great cognitive function and your estrogen is X, why would you need to increase that number. What is the ideal way to tackle hormones? Well that would be to have a full blood panel done when you at the peak in your life (I wish I had this), because then you would know what levels your body feels best at when you age.

if e2 is too high, drop your test dose. max 3mg per kg of LBM. simple as that.

Thanks guys for all your help. To be safe, I will reduce to 250mg a week and will check E2 level and total test level again after 2 weeks. I also think that will be the best route to take.

Have a nice day guys

Regards

will take longer than 2 weeks for it to reduce substantially. remember you have a build-up in the system, probably best to wait 2-3x the half-life of the ester before checking, so 20 to 30 days will probably show I remarkable decrease in e2, in the meantime, try and shed some body fat as usually higher levels of body fat have been shown to increase e2 conversion.

Thanks Empire, will do

If all check out fine after this cycle, what will you guys suggest can I take with the 250 test on my new cycle next year. Something that can help a bit more with strenght and mussel building that will be not to dangerous for an older guy like myself :lol:

Maybe Primo?

I have always loved TBOL.
My sweet spot is 40mg, I get good results, low sides

You always want to minimize side effects whilst running a decent cycle. I have gone off high dosing and I believe that titrating dose up these days is the best thing to do. Testosterone is needed for a cycle but you don't need to over do the test otherwise you suffer like you are currently doing.

Set your test dose at 2.5mg to 3mg for the cycle only increasing from 2.5mg to 3mg after about 5 to 6 weeks. So if you are 80kgs start at 200mg per week and then go to 240/250mg per week there after..

People on this forum don't like the fact I suggest low dose primo, but the pics in my prep log will show evidence that you don't need massive doses.if you are doing say a 13 week cycle,

You would need 1ml a week for 6 weeks. 2ml a week for 7 weeks. That would get you away with 2 bottles.

Now if you don't suffer from issues with progestrone, add in some npp to that cycle. Start at 200mg per week, and then go to 400mg per week like you are doing with your primo.

That way you are still running from 600mg to a max of a 1000mg per week, you are also covering all 3 of the steroid family bases. You are covering the test aspect, then the dht aspect with the primo and then then 19nor aspect with the npp.

A combination of all the parts is going to give amazing results. That also should limit the need for ai's on cycle too.