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Detrained - start cycle again or train till recomp through muscle memory first?
- mastiff
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01 Jun 2023 21:34 #229171
by mastiff
Detrained - start cycle again or train till recomp through muscle memory first? was created by mastiff
Hi guys.
Been out of the gym almost completely since beginning of this year owing to surgery and ill health, hence I am detrained.
However, being a long-standing competent lifter, I am wondering if there's any benefit to spending time training again without peds hoping to recoup muscle and get back to a position that I was in before being out of the gym.... or whether I should just start the cycle now that I am intending doing regardless at some point?
Interested to hear your thoughts on this, thanks.
Been out of the gym almost completely since beginning of this year owing to surgery and ill health, hence I am detrained.
However, being a long-standing competent lifter, I am wondering if there's any benefit to spending time training again without peds hoping to recoup muscle and get back to a position that I was in before being out of the gym.... or whether I should just start the cycle now that I am intending doing regardless at some point?
Interested to hear your thoughts on this, thanks.
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- Empire
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02 Jun 2023 07:05 - 02 Jun 2023 07:07 #229172
by Empire
Replied by Empire on topic Detrained - start cycle again or train till recomp through muscle memory first?
At best i would do sports TRT (3mg per kg of Testosterone) or sports HRT (3mg per kg of total substance used eg 1.5mg test 1mg DHT like masteron, 0.5mg 19nor such as deca) with maybe 0.5mcg of clen per kg of bw, and if budget and experience allows for it, 2iu of gh 5 days on 2 days off and some insulin on training days For 8-10 weeks.
That way you are hitting multiple anabolic pathways, aswell as keeping total androgen load low, whilst getting back to supraphysiological dosing in your course.
I would then stick to 80 working sets per week total across all body parts, 1-2 reps shy of failure getting nothing less than 8 reps per execise.
You are repriming everything and allowing for improved recovery by not going to failure, but still focussing on driving reps up and overall volune without driving yourself into the ground.
You should on that be able to regain all muscle that may have been lost prior to not training, and you will get a feel for the heavy weights again.
Its what i did for the last 10 weeks between courses, i still gained muscle and strength in that time, and was able to start my course at a higher 10rm than when i finished the last 1.
Remember there are 2 major things that drive recovery, calories and miligrams. But there is 1 thing that drives growth. Volume. Volume comes from 3 places. Weight used, reps performed, sets performed. So when the number of sets are set at 80 per week, the priority needs to become reps done, and then weight used. Because you are sitting with lower mgs, you dont want to also over do caloric load too.
Depending on metabolic rate, you could be anywhere between 29-32kcal per kg body weight to support the above. If you are worried about fat gain, I would start at the 29kcal mark, and then maybe progress up by 1kcal every 2 weeks over the 8 weeks.
That way you are hitting multiple anabolic pathways, aswell as keeping total androgen load low, whilst getting back to supraphysiological dosing in your course.
I would then stick to 80 working sets per week total across all body parts, 1-2 reps shy of failure getting nothing less than 8 reps per execise.
You are repriming everything and allowing for improved recovery by not going to failure, but still focussing on driving reps up and overall volune without driving yourself into the ground.
You should on that be able to regain all muscle that may have been lost prior to not training, and you will get a feel for the heavy weights again.
Its what i did for the last 10 weeks between courses, i still gained muscle and strength in that time, and was able to start my course at a higher 10rm than when i finished the last 1.
Remember there are 2 major things that drive recovery, calories and miligrams. But there is 1 thing that drives growth. Volume. Volume comes from 3 places. Weight used, reps performed, sets performed. So when the number of sets are set at 80 per week, the priority needs to become reps done, and then weight used. Because you are sitting with lower mgs, you dont want to also over do caloric load too.
Depending on metabolic rate, you could be anywhere between 29-32kcal per kg body weight to support the above. If you are worried about fat gain, I would start at the 29kcal mark, and then maybe progress up by 1kcal every 2 weeks over the 8 weeks.
Last edit: 02 Jun 2023 07:07 by Empire.
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- Obelix
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07 Jun 2023 08:00 #229185
by Obelix
Replied by Obelix on topic Detrained - start cycle again or train till recomp through muscle memory first?
Im going to go against what Empire says, His advice is solid, But from my point
You sure you are going back to it 100%? Dont wanna see if you might end up half arsing it?
my thinking, its gonna take you a short stint to get back into it, Why not wait until then before jumping on gear?
You sure you are going back to it 100%? Dont wanna see if you might end up half arsing it?
my thinking, its gonna take you a short stint to get back into it, Why not wait until then before jumping on gear?
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07 Jun 2023 11:08 #229186
by Empire
Replied by Empire on topic Detrained - start cycle again or train till recomp through muscle memory first?
Obelix, you arent wrong in your thinking, i would agree, 12 weeks clean would be amazing instead of jumping into it, hence why I just supported low trt/hrt narrative.
But your views are valid, and very applicable in this situation.
Issue comes in is kinda where you are and kinda most guys who have done gear in the past are. You go with wait for a couple weeks. Most people who have done gear are "tren is life, 600mg a week with a 1000mg of test or nothing." (Yes i know i am being extreme.) Hence why I put in the middle ground of starting at a trt/sports TRT level to amplify some recovery and gains before jumping straight into a full blown course.
But your views are valid, and very applicable in this situation.
Issue comes in is kinda where you are and kinda most guys who have done gear in the past are. You go with wait for a couple weeks. Most people who have done gear are "tren is life, 600mg a week with a 1000mg of test or nothing." (Yes i know i am being extreme.) Hence why I put in the middle ground of starting at a trt/sports TRT level to amplify some recovery and gains before jumping straight into a full blown course.
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- MPhilosopher
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07 Jun 2023 11:36 - 07 Jun 2023 11:36 #229187
by MPhilosopher
Replied by MPhilosopher on topic Detrained - start cycle again or train till recomp through muscle memory first?
Surgery is often quite a lot of stress on the body.
Pair it with inactivity and medication to deal with pain, be it gabanergic or any "painkiller", I would get blood work first, see where Free T, E2, Prolactin etc all lie - as much as you can afford, get a comprehensive blood panel before blasting anything.
Pair it with inactivity and medication to deal with pain, be it gabanergic or any "painkiller", I would get blood work first, see where Free T, E2, Prolactin etc all lie - as much as you can afford, get a comprehensive blood panel before blasting anything.
Last edit: 07 Jun 2023 11:36 by MPhilosopher.
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- mastiff
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03 Jul 2023 01:54 #229226
by mastiff
Replied by mastiff on topic Detrained - start cycle again or train till recomp through muscle memory first?
Thanks for the input everyone. I agree and think it's best to take the prudent approach here.. did my blood work recently so waiting on those results (a pretty comprehensive one).
Definitely deadset on the comeback.. fuck, it's become a part of who I am at this point and training has always been my area I turn to for confidence or sheer mental necessity lol. I have already made some significant progress in the last 4-5 weeks just with slight cal surplus, maintaining general health parameters like sleep (which was in the toilet while recovering from my op), and so far this has unsurprisingly made a world of difference.
Curious to see results from my blood work and whether any of the hefty painkillers or other medications had lasting effects. Could share these details if it were of some interest to anyone.
"Steady & sustainable" = the mantra i like to remind myself of when there's a strong urge to give in to the lil dude with horns atop my right shoulder.
Definitely deadset on the comeback.. fuck, it's become a part of who I am at this point and training has always been my area I turn to for confidence or sheer mental necessity lol. I have already made some significant progress in the last 4-5 weeks just with slight cal surplus, maintaining general health parameters like sleep (which was in the toilet while recovering from my op), and so far this has unsurprisingly made a world of difference.
Curious to see results from my blood work and whether any of the hefty painkillers or other medications had lasting effects. Could share these details if it were of some interest to anyone.
"Steady & sustainable" = the mantra i like to remind myself of when there's a strong urge to give in to the lil dude with horns atop my right shoulder.
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- MPhilosopher
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03 Jul 2023 15:01 #229230
by MPhilosopher
Replied by MPhilosopher on topic Detrained - start cycle again or train till recomp through muscle memory first?
Yep feel free to share. Time is also important for hormones to balance.
I would not expect lasting effects from the painkillers etc, just give yourself enough time to equilibrate, sounds like you are following a very reasonable approach.
I would not expect lasting effects from the painkillers etc, just give yourself enough time to equilibrate, sounds like you are following a very reasonable approach.
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