Old fasioned?

hmmm

I'm I just old fasioned but why is it everyone recomends using test in your first cycle... I have allways been told by pro friends and others to take the mildest substances first before you even think about touching test and other highly androgenic substances... life is not about 'pomping' so who cares if you shut down a bit during a short cycle? Do your PCT and *bang* bobs your uncle..

I'm talking about substances like Andriol / Anavar / Primabolin or even Masteron, why not use these for starting base as i've allways been told.

Why is it everyone on this board is trying to advise test? Why is it very educated friends of mine completely disagree with this? Even EQ, its mild... Why are we suggesting test when these other substances your body would make such good gains on and as time go on, move to other substances, like test...

maybe i'm really old school but I could honestly back this up with really clued up people stating the same. stick to mild anabolics or even highly anabolic (EQ) and prevent all the sides that test gives you..

why rush into something you can slowly get into a few cycles down the line... nobody is going to turn into ronnie coleman (EVER) so why not just take it slowly and not add harm to you body... steroids causes so many long term affects, its scary... aggresion, kidney desiese, high bp (for ever), gyno, jaundice, and the list goes as everyone knows...

now the truth of the matter is, if we dedicated to what we do and we do it right we will get to where we want to be. but baby steps....

if anyone has hard earned proof please educate me as to my way of thinking.

thanks

I think it has to do with gaining s much as muscle you can from the start , and then building onto it.

The second time you take you may not build as much as your body has built a tolerances?

Thats just my view?

If this is the case I would not want my body to build a tolerance to milder substances , hence not gain as much as I "could" of?

hmmm, good point.... but is this the case with milder substances? what is it building up a tolerance against, its all to do with your receptors? how does being in a anabolic state prevent future gains, I can understand if its with hard substances hence my belief on mild substances to start with? then again I don't have any scientific evidence to back what i'm saying, just oldschool friends that might have been good knowldge years ago but not in these days.

I dunno man.

I reckon for your first time it makes sense to gain as much as possible the first time.

And test does just that

acidkidsa wrote:

I dunno man.

I reckon for your first time it makes sense to gain as much as possible the first time.

And test does just that

And thats exactly why its recommended to take test as your first cycle. Why is this advised? Because you want to maximisie your gains from your first cycle as you will gain the most from it. Guys can put on 10 - 20 kgs just from a cycle of 250 mgs of sus for like 8 weeks. Also it has something to do with receptor downgrade the more cycles you do and the duration on it as well. If you are a bodybuilder then conclusion is you want size and to get size you need test. Thats what i think the reason is. Also depends what your goals are and what type of an athlete you are. That would decide what type of a cycle you would do.
Now a bodybuilder who has done 20 cycles will deffinately need more substances to achieve gains.

Thats what i think atleast.

Thanks for that guys.... makes sense

need to re-program my way of thinking sometimes....

The first time I saw people recommending Test only first cycles was on meso over half a decade ago. ALthough getting the best possible gains formed a part of the argument, it was not the the crux of it.

The main point in the argument was that test is test. By injecting test into your body you are introducing a compound that your body knows what to do with. Compound that do not convert in the normal way often present more radical side effects. At an effective dosage even mild steroids that are DHT based in structure produce more androgenic side effects than test alone, because they upset the normal hormone balance in the body. People that are sensitive to DHT suffer as a result. This holds true for potent compounds that convert to 1-methyl estrogen derivatives.

In addition by putting a compound like testosterone into your body in your first cycle you allow yourself to gauge how you react to excessive steroid hormones in your system, since all are accounted for you then know what to stay away from in future. No point in wasting tons of cash on a low estrogenic cycle if you don't have a testicles chance in a whore house of gettin gyno.

In addition this was also around the time when tons of small guys were requesting info on gear and low doses were being recommended. For a seasoned trainer wanting to do a first cycle I agree with the ~500mg a week. Its a good base to put on good gains while still having a very low chance of presenting negative side effects. In fact sciency-type experiments on muscle mass and strength in active individuals using AAS have safely gone as high as 600mg/week with no negative effects, and this may actually be were the recommendation originally started.
However for a 60kg-75kg young man who hasn't done alot of work on diet or training, and is hell bent on doing 'roids' so that he can finally show of his biceps at the beach and hopefully one day actually get some ass, in this instance, 200mg / week will do wonders for him. Really, there is no need to go higher in this instance. And he will gain a fair understanding of what test does to him will very low side effects. This will be beneficial should he become addicted (which is usually the case) and move on to heavier cycles after actually beginning to educate himself.

Test is test and this is the main reason I believe test only first cycle should be recommended.

Fantastic explenation Inja

That makes allot of sense, its natrual to the body, well not in those doses but based on the fact that its test.

Appreciate the well thought and descriptive reply.

Guys can put on 10 - 20 kgs just from a cycle of 250 mgs of sus for like 8 weeks.

thats a bit of a big statement to make from 250mg/week for 8 weeks..
even 10 is really good there but to state up to 20kg is i think unrealistic...
my two cents worth..!!!

that really depends on the body im sure someone outhere has even hit 20 kgs with a test only cycle anyways i got 12 kgs in my first cycle so yea i think 10 -20 is possible and realistic

Inja wrote:

The first time I saw people recommending Test only first cycles was on meso over half a decade ago. ALthough getting the best possible gains formed a part of the argument, it was not the the crux of it.

The main point in the argument was that test is test. By injecting test into your body you are introducing a compound that your body knows what to do with. Compound that do not convert in the normal way often present more radical side effects. At an effective dosage even mild steroids that are DHT based in structure produce more androgenic side effects than test alone, because they upset the normal hormone balance in the body. People that are sensitive to DHT suffer as a result. This holds true for potent compounds that convert to 1-methyl estrogen derivatives.

In addition by putting a compound like testosterone into your body in your first cycle you allow yourself to gauge how you react to excessive steroid hormones in your system, since all are accounted for you then know what to stay away from in future. No point in wasting tons of cash on a low estrogenic cycle if you don't have a testicles chance in a whore house of gettin gyno.

In addition this was also around the time when tons of small guys were requesting info on gear and low doses were being recommended. For a seasoned trainer wanting to do a first cycle I agree with the ~500mg a week. Its a good base to put on good gains while still having a very low chance of presenting negative side effects. In fact sciency-type experiments on muscle mass and strength in active individuals using AAS have safely gone as high as 600mg/week with no negative effects, and this may actually be were the recommendation originally started.
However for a 60kg-75kg young man who hasn't done alot of work on diet or training, and is hell bent on doing 'roids' so that he can finally show of his biceps at the beach and hopefully one day actually get some ass, in this instance, 200mg / week will do wonders for him. Really, there is no need to go higher in this instance. And he will gain a fair understanding of what test does to him will very low side effects. This will be beneficial should he become addicted (which is usually the case) and move on to heavier cycles after actually beginning to educate himself.

Test is test and this is the main reason I believe test only first cycle should be recommended.

Exactly!!!
Why introduce a new hormone when you already produce this one.
Since it is a base, and should be for every cycle, a beginner should know how much his body responds to for future cycles.
It's also cheap compared to most other compounds and sides are easily detectable and managed.
Spot on Inja!

Have some karma