GYNO??!!

Hey guys.

So Im a soon to be 1st time user.

The cycle I've settled on (thanks to advice from many of you on here) is as follows:

weeks 1-4 D-bol 30mg
weeks 1-12 Test cyp 300mg
weeks 9 - clomid 25mg
weeks 11- clomid 25mg

still unsure but may run winny at the back???

NOW THE PROBLEM:::::

Guys im really worried now though cos iv read that one of the more experienced guys on this site is going to have his gyno surgery for A 2ND TIME?? :ohmy:

Now if a pro who knows all the ins and outs of proper pct administration has to have a 2nd operation to cut out the gyno, what chance do i have (a wet behind the ears newb) of coming through my 1st cycle without bitch tits??

Guys please advise me of the best pct for my cycle! Im like on the verge of not going through with this as Im now crapping myself...

:S

Some guys are just really more prone to gyno than others. . . You just need to be ready for anything. Have stuff on hand and watch out for the beginning symptoms. . .

Rowan wrote:

Hey guys.

So Im a soon to be 1st time user.

The cycle I've settled on (thanks to advice from many of you on here) is as follows:

weeks 1-4 D-bol 30mg
weeks 1-12 Test cyp 300mg
weeks 9 - clomid 25mg
weeks 11- clomid 25mg

still unsure but may run winny at the back???

NOW THE PROBLEM:::::

Guys im really worried now though cos iv read that one of the more experienced guys on this site is going to have his gyno surgery for A 2ND TIME?? :ohmy:

Now if a pro who knows all the ins and outs of proper pct administration has to have a 2nd operation to cut out the gyno, what chance do i have (a wet behind the ears newb) of coming through my 1st cycle without bitch tits??

Guys please advise me of the best pct for my cycle! Im like on the verge of not going through with this as Im now crapping myself...

:S

That cycle sucks, rather do this:

weeks 1-4 D-bol 30mg
weeks 1-12 Test cyp 500mg
weeks 14+ Start Clomid at 50mg and run for 2 cycles 5 days on and 5 days off. Run kessar at 20mg for 30 days.

If you are really worried about gynecomastia, buy Letrozole and keep that on hand and only use when you notice nipple itchiness and/or small lumps.

Oh ok - so run clomid at 50mg only 2 weeks after my last pin.
Admin, do i start the kessar at the same time as the clomid?

p.s - Im only running 300mg test as its my 1st cycle and my wife is dead set against roids. @300mg i can at least attempt to lie to my wife as she sees the transformation over the 12 weeks... (i.e 'im eating cleaner, gyming harder babe' :blush:

500mg on the other hand over 12 weeks - even a blind man will see im jabbing?! lol :laugh:

what are your thoughts on the winny at the back? or is it too much for a 1st timer?

I doubt she will notice the test compared to what the dbol is going to do to you over 4 weeks - it should be very noticeable.

Rowan wrote:

Oh ok - so run clomid at 50mg only 2 weeks after my last pin.
Admin, do i start the kessar at the same time as the clomid?

Yes, start at the same time.

Rowan wrote:

p.s - Im only running 300mg test as its my 1st cycle and my wife is dead set against roids. @300mg i can at least attempt to lie to my wife as she sees the transformation over the 12 weeks... (i.e 'im eating cleaner, gyming harder babe' :blush:

500mg on the other hand over 12 weeks - even a blind man will see im jabbing?! lol :laugh:

I will still go for 500mg, but it's your decision. Results will not be that obvious and please do not expect to much...
A first cycle is a very good time to grow as much as you can, I used 300mg test for my first time and if I can do it over again, I'll go for 500-600mg.

Rowan wrote:

what are your thoughts on the winny at the back? or is it too much for a 1st timer?

I don't like winny, it's too toxic for me and you don't really need to make the cycle that complicated now.

I still reckon that if you want to play it safe with your wife I wouldn't run anything over 300mg/wk.
Rowen, is there any way you can perhaps discuss it with your wife? I feel that if you going to make the decision now to take roids, eventually sometime down the line she is going to find out, because inevitably this is not going to be your last coarse. You are bound to do a second, third...etc and if you convince her now it will give you that much more freedom to do the cycles that you choose at the recommended dosages.
I don't think I've met anyone who has just done one cycle of roids and then called it quits.
I also understand that most people especially wives and girlfriends have a misconception about steroids and it is impossible & pointless trying to discuss the subject with them.

Bud just come clean with the wife, if she can't understand then convince her harder.

Show her the threads and post of real world feedback. Plus show her that u did "say" research on everything u wanna use, so she also knows what u putting in ur body and what to expect.

My girl was against it aswell going on about roid rage and how ppl change on the stuff and so on. I showed her what i wanna use and what the possible sides can be. Every time i try new compounds i show her and let her read up about it aswell.

So when i did my "first" run we also made a deal that if i change mentally (roid rage) in anyway i would stop. This agreement has kept me in check and now she also doesn't mind me cycling at all.

So bud just come clean, u might be surprised to c how understanding women can be.

Different people suffer differently to gyno sides.. I started gear young 15 or 16 and only started developing gyno around 21/24 can't exactly remember... Yes I had it cut out and come back, I am a very big test subject, so I test allot on my body and see how far I can push it without side effects, I was using, GH 4iu a day, EQ 900mg / test at 1gram, Masteron at 300mg, started cycle with Anadrol at 100mg, using Anavar at 40mg through the cycle and added winstrol.

For guys that start out and run low doses of gear I doubt you will notice anything, just keep an eye on it and come back here if you start to run into any problems.

Next cycle I have learnt needs to be Primo at 400/600mg a week and Masteron at 300mg + Eq at 350mg and hGH... I will play it safe with that cycle as I do not want to go under the knife the 3rd time.. This surgery is looking to be extremely expensive.. its around R 146 a minute you in theater. That isn't the price of the Surgeon / Your day ward, etc...

Run an anti e on cycle-aromasin, letro or adex. Not clomid-clomid is a mild estrogen and can worsen or cause gyno-only run it in pct to help recovery

Rowan wrote: Oh ok - so run clomid at 50mg only 2 weeks after my last pin.
Admin, do i start the kessar at the same time as the clomid?

p.s - Im only running 300mg test as its my 1st cycle and my wife is dead set against roids. @300mg i can at least attempt to lie to my wife as she sees the transformation over the 12 weeks... (i.e 'im eating cleaner, gyming harder babe' :blush:

500mg on the other hand over 12 weeks - even a blind man will see im jabbing?! lol :laugh:

what are your thoughts on the winny at the back? or is it too much for a 1st timer?

I always find this quite odd ... why lie about something to your wife ? When the test kicks in and she's trying to beat off your sexual advances with a frying pan she'll soon stop nagging of the little issue of needles

Yeah believe me, once she experiences you on test, she'llchange her mind in an instant.

spike wrote: Yeah believe me, once she experiences you on test, she'llchange her mind in an instant.

But if she is a 3 times a week kind of girl you have a problem.

Hey guys!

Have an update for you...

I(Reluctantly) took StuartF & Fakey's advice and actually brought up the subject of steroids with my wife over the weekend.

I was so surprised when she never freaked out! She actually asked me questions like what the risks were; what the benefits were etc... We actually had a meaningful conversation about it! In my mind i was like WTF is going on?? lol

Her main concerns were the issues of steroids impact on sperm count & fertility as well as the aggression aspect of it.

She hasnt agreed to anything yet, but the meer fact that we sat and chatted about it for like an hour is a victory in itself!

She did say that if I went on, she would stop me at the 1st sign of increased aggression or mood change... lol.

She did ask me if I would be able to limit it to just 1 cycle if she 'allowed' me to. I was honest with her and told her that I couldnt promise anything at this stage. I think the fact that I was 100% honest with her in answering all of her questions may have swung things in my favour!

Anyway, will keep you guys updated on progress - I may very well be on the way to finally doing my 1st cycle!

Take care guys & thanks for helping me to do the right thing!

congrats bud, See that wasn't so bad.

My wife reacted exactly the same and also said that if she agree's it will be for one cycle. Needless to say a few cycle's later and she is still happy plus she pins me every time aswell which makes it even easier for me

Good Luck Bud

Nice one, Rowen! Honesty is always better in the long run.

Hey guys.

Another update - was getting dressed this morning and my wife (out of the blue) turns to me and says: "okay - you can do a cycle, but i wanna know exactly what you're taking"

So I'm really amped about this now!

Same rules as FAKEY apply tho - 1st sign of aggression and shyte and i have to stop. But what's even better is my 'behaviour' during my 1st cycle will depend on whether there will be any future cycles. (which means she's open to the possibility of this not being my 1 and only cycle)

Take care guys!

Thanks again...

Now to start putting some money together...

Rowan wrote: Hey guys.

Another update - was getting dressed this morning and my wife (out of the blue) turns to me and says: "okay - you can do a cycle, but i wanna know exactly what you're taking"

So I'm really amped about this now!

Same rules as FAKEY apply tho - 1st sign of aggression and shyte and i have to stop. But what's even better is my 'behaviour' during my 1st cycle will depend on whether there will be any future cycles. (which means she's open to the possibility of this not being my 1 and only cycle)

Take care guys!

Thanks again...

Now to start putting some money together...

You seem like a nice guy.... you will be ok - promise. Its the guys who are assholes before they start who cause shit.
Use HCG during your cycle - it does wonders to your mental stability etc. Not just for your nut-size.

(Readup on that subject at allthingsmale.com. Or just search for Dr John Crisler HCG)

Thanks @ Jackrabbit1.

Funny you mention HCG. All along iv been thinking that I could get away with pct as follows:

5days on - 25mg clomid
5days off
5days on - 25mg clomid
30 days - kessar

But now the more i research, the more i read that I should incorporate nolva and hcg into my pct?

What are your thoughts? Bearing in mind this is my 1st cycle and im not stacking a whole lot of stuff - its just d-bol & test cyp.

Also what about running a mild dose of tamoxifen during my 1st 4 weeks while im on the dbol?

thanks guys!

Howzit Rowen

Why don't you follow Doctari's PCT protocol. It has been designed by a doctor (doctari) to cover all bases and will make sure that you get the most out of the cycle. Rather be safe and do it properly. The PCT cycle is attached.

In case you wondering, kessar, nolva and tamoxifen are all the same thing.

Rowan wrote: Thanks @ Jackrabbit1.

Funny you mention HCG. All along iv been thinking that I could get away with pct as follows:

5days on - 25mg clomid
5days off
5days on - 25mg clomid
30 days - kessar

But now the more i research, the more i read that I should incorporate nolva and hcg into my pct?

What are your thoughts? Bearing in mind this is my 1st cycle and im not stacking a whole lot of stuff - its just d-bol & test cyp.

Also what about running a mild dose of tamoxifen during my 1st 4 weeks while im on the dbol?

thanks guys!

You now have ALL the information you need. Digest it.

Sorry to interupt, but i have advised a few to take letro to resolve gyno, and it has solved the problem, I always run letro, or hcg with my cycle, why let things get out of hand, prevention is better than cure i say, the small lose of gains is well worth not getting the major sides,ie run Masteron with d,bol, test E with Provion, or any heavy test with letro, see u still have balls, no need to magic new ones, or am i stupid.????

You guys are really so helpful!
Thank you so much for all the input.

Iv looked at Doctari's PCT and it seems really easy and straight forward (thank you stuartf for the attachment)

Just 2 questions:

ovidrel (Serono) is really expensive. It is a form of chorionic gonadotropin; but so is hCG 5000 (LP)- would it be advisable for me to run the hcg rather than the ovidrel during pct?

2nd question - quite a few sources have suggested running a small dose of hcg while on cycle as this helps psycologically as well as preventing nut atrophy.
what kind of dosage are we talking (during cycle) and how will this affect the pct dosage after cycle?


again, thank you so much guys.

For a simple cycle like you doing the HCG is fine. Look at 500iU 2 x p/week as maintenance and then the PCT dose when you start your PCT as well.
I really don't think you need to go full tilt with PCT on a plain test cycle.
HCG, Nolva and Clomid will cover all your bases IMO, but choice is yours as well.