Where do i begin

I there. I never used any Steroids before. If i liked to begin using, with what do i start that wound be that drastick. can you get sterile with all Steroids, and is it permanent.
Thanx for now.

:ohmy:

Hi there...Your name beginner is it? LOL!!!

Firstly, its safe to say you can relax dude. You're in no way in danger of losing your balls, ha ha!!! And I can promise you, your love eggs will work once you're done with a cycle.

The trick is simply down to what you do after a cycle. Read through many of the posts in this forum and you will hear us all talk about PCT = POST CYCLE THERAPY. This, I think, is the importan bit...Not so much really what you take, more so how you handle the side effects of what you take.

There are a huge number of ancillary compounds you can employ to serve you once you've completed a cycle or stack as it were.

Deca is the beautiful one. It's clean, its user friendly and has a mild effect on the body and as such will not cause heavy side effects due to its low conversaion rate into estrogen. Deca on its own however, won't cut it. You will need to support the intake of Deca with another compound possibly an oral (tablet) such as Dianabol.

A word of warning though:

Dianabol is potent. Any orally ingested steroid is potent. It has to be to get passed the liver. Your liver is filled with compound destroying enzymes and that copuled with the acid in your stomach, a large chunk of the tablet will get lost and you will either pee it out or crap it out. The compound will get broken down into its active ingredients and so its necessary to make orals very strong to combat this effect.

If you ever hear anyone talk about the "First pass effect" then you'll know what they're talking about cuz thats just what I explained here. I can go very much more in depth with this conversation as to why oral steroids are toxic to the liver but I think in trying to avoid overloading you I'll just keep it simple.

You ever heard of milk thistle? You can buy milk thistle supplements in tablet form at any pharmacy or health food store. Milk thistle is very good for liver support and as such will be useful to you as well while on a cycle.

Then, you saw me use the word "toxic", well don't freak dude. You're not killing yourself here. Anything in this life is ok in moderation, if you're on for 10 weeks then you should be of for at least the same amount of time and as far as post cycle therapy goes, there are many pages here to help you and I'm sure if you don't find any answers the mods and admin guys might be able to help. Don't be scared to ask, but also don't be silly and ask where you can get some because that is against the rules of this forum and its frowned upon.

So to recap, you're looking for two products:

Deca Durabolin (to be intramuscularly injected)
Dianabol (to be taken orally)
Milk thistle (to support your liver)

To answer your question about going sterile, no dude. In the amounts you'll be taking if you end up going sterile you're more than likey the type that was predisposed to that kind of thing so don't freak you'll be fine. Always remember though that what ever you hear in this forum is for informational purposes only. We are not practitioners and as such we give advice based on the research that we do, not because we're doctors or because we expect you to use the info.

For convenience, I've included a little cycle for ya which may remove ome of the cloudyness you may be experiencing at the moment as to how t should be used. If you have any further questions, pop around the forum and see if you can find anything that answers your questions.

Right so a simple mass building stack will look like so:

Week---Dianabol

---

Deca Durabolin
1

---

x

---

300mg/week
2

---

x

---

300mg/week
3

---

x

---

300mg/week
4

---

20mg/day

---

300mg/week
5

---

20mg/day

---

300mg/week
6

---

20mg/day

---

300mg/week
7

---

20mg/day

---

300mg/week
8

---

20mg/day

---

300mg/week
9

---

20mg/day

---

300mg/week
10

---

20mg/day

---

300mg/week

Deca now comes in 300mg vials but as for availability I have no idea so if for any reason you can only get 200mg vials then its ok to substitute the 300mg per week as outlined above with the 200mg per week until week 10. If you can find 300mg then for sure your end result will be better.

Good luck and I hope you feel better now about the whole deal...

Ciao

*x PEYTON x*

I think its a bad idea starting your first cycle with Deca and Dianabol... the Deca will shut you down big time.

I would recommend taking Either Test Cypionate or test Enanthate at 400-500mgs/week for 10 weeks. You can take Dianabols at 25-30mgs/day for the 1st 4 weeks to kick start the cycle. 1st cycles are usually just Test and Dianabol, thus you can control the side effects better. Always have some Nolvadex or Arimedex on hand in case you start showing signs of getting bitch tits.
Definately not Deca and Dianabol only!!!

Hey dude....nice to meet ya man!!!

Cheers for the comment. Care to explain why you think its a bad cycle to start with? Deca is very mild dude, has very low estrogenic effects and isn't all that strong in the anabolic department either....So I'd be curious to hear why you think its not that good...

x* PEYTON *x

You are correct in that Deca doesn´t produce many estrogenic or androgenic side effects because it has a very low rate of aromatization. The problem is that Deca is very suppressive on your natural testosterone levels, so in other words when you take it alone, it just about kills your natural Test production, leaving you with what we call "Deca Dick" you can become impotent as well as... well... limp. It is always recommended to take at least 200mgs of test with deca, to avoid these problems...

hope this helps

Yep, i agree wit rave, gotta take test with deca..As for first cycle, takin a testosterone alone should do very well...

Hi Beginner

Have you ever used Pro Hormones things like S-Drol along those lines there are guys here on this forum that have used just that and have experianced excellent results as well

Hey dudes...

I'm well aware of the "deca kick" yes, BUT....as any form of juice usage requires ancillary treatment there is no getting away from Deca's use. For a beginner like this guy who asked, its a gentle way to get his body into the swing of things without him blowing up like a balloon.

You have to think of the consequences behind such a suggestion. Has he trained before? Probably not yet or has only recently started. Even if he's been training for 6 months I can guarentee you his joints and overall physiology isn't ready to explode into a massive size. The best way to do anything, its like sex for the first time. You don't just shove it in there and then go hammer and tongs and hope she thinks you've rocked her world. You gotta take it easy so for an oke like the guy who asked I would say that Deca really aint a bad stack to start with at all.

It has a low estrogenic effect, it had moderate progestational effects and overall won't cause him to blow up. The dianabol will give the KICK he needs for him to go somewhere with his first stack without feeling like he's not gained anything because we all know that Deca doesn't work very fast. BUT it gets used by okes as part of a cutting stack pre comp sometimes and helps to harden the physique so, I really don't think its a bad cycle at all. In fact I'd recommend it to any first timer.

Yes, the endogenous testosterone suppression is high but with HCG and the use of an anti estrogen (even though conversion to estrogen is low) his balls will be fine and after a 10 week cycle there should be no risk of going impotent.....Unless of course he is predisposed to the condition.

BUT....This is my researched opinion so I guess it is up to him whether he wants a gentle introduction into musclehood or if he wants to enter the pearly gates of muscle suburbia rolling in backwards in a flaming ball of muscles with all them dirty bitches staring....ha ha ha!!!

Test & dianabol will work...
Deca & dianabol will work too, but your results will be less pronounced hence not as rough on the system...

X* PEYTON *X

Dudes,

Just another thing real quick regarding the use of Deca and the PCT required after any Deca cycle has been completed. The half life of Deca is very long. I went through a study that showed that a single dose of 200mg in one week took up to 16 days to become (or to be noted as) ineffective in the blood stream. This means that you have a cumulative effect in the system whereby a constant weekly injection will increase the slow time release of this drug and as such you can't start your post cycle therapy straight after cessation of the Deca cycle. You will need to give it about 2 weeks (rough estimate guys) to tone itself down in your blood stream before administering HCG and/or Nolvadex or which ever anti e you choose...

x*. PEYTON .*x

gotta disagree with you peyton, you wont find many bodybuilders that recommend taking Deca without some form of a test base... For 1st cycles you can rather start off with say 250mgs/week of test... Each to his own, but in mine (and many others) opinion... rather start off with a lowish test cycle.

Ok fair enough....

It would seem strange to discount the medical reports and more importantly the findings of the studies surrounding this compound. It makes sense, though, that you recommend a test base. For obvious reasons I guess...

Thanks for the comments mate... )

@>PEYTON<@

You too buddy

Hmmm....
Seven weeks of D-Bol?

Ok the dose is low (very low) and liver impact is maybe overstated with orals.
No issue, just a raised eyebrow.

Heya....

I think maybe guys could possibly get the wrong idea of where i'm coming from when I suggest a stack. I suggest a stack based on the merrits of each drug and the overall effect each drug will have on a person. So maybe my stack suggestions are more medically appointed as opposed to from experience, you get me?

As for the hepatoxic status of orals or the suggestion that they are heavily toxic to the liver, I think the medical community gives worse case scenario everytime. I think medical science is somehow geared to give us the worse case when it comes to the bad news surrounding drugs and side effects, although I can't be sure.

So raised eyebrow, ya I guess its fair hey dude...ha ha ha!!!

Ta for the comments bru...

@<PETYON>@

@ Peyton, your point of view is valid and there are many ways to skin a cat.
Its good to see a different perspective. Don't feel persicuted!

The raised eyebrow was more due to the advice being counter the general trend on this site i.e. 4 weeks max for orals, type thing.
I would have thought you'd cop some heat around that suggestion, but the dose is really low.

I believe any cycle should be done for maximum effect.
So if you are gonna do a cycle, do a propper cycle, don't piss about with sub-optimal doses. Even if you are a beginner.

Others here will dissagree, but that's my 2 cents.

Hey again dude...

It's ok, I don't think I feel persicuted. I'm happy to take on board anything I hear. I can of course, in my own time do the research and find out what is best. So any comments are always welcome, it helps one learn.

I go through medical notes like mad dude, I read and read and read and I kinda take from them what is possibly the healthiest way (if there is such a thing) to use this stuff based on studies done. So I guess I'm not necessarily as clued up as the guys who've been around and taking for years.

But ya, its cool cuz I'm happy to see what you all have to say. It will round off my perspective in the end.

As for the "go big or go home" concept, well....I guess its open to each oke to decide. I sort of believe in "stadig maar seker" when it comes to stuff like this until you know what your tolerances are and then you grab the dog by the bollock's with your new found knowledge. Then again there are many okes here so any newbie is bound to find something that works.

Either way, still....Ta for the comments matey )

PEYTON > ----

Thanx for your advise. I read on the Forum that it is better to take injectables than orral. make sence to me so i think i'll go with that. What is available to start with. By the way. I am afrikaans so i struggle a bit with my English, sorry for that.

So post in Afrikaans then, I'm sure most of us can like to be fully bisexual, I mean bilingual:P

Hi MM. No never, is it known as S-Drol or for what does it stand for. I would like to check it out.

peyton wrote:

As for the "go big or go home" concept, well....I guess its open to each oke to decide. I sort of believe in "stadig maar seker" when it comes to stuff like this until you know what your tolerances are and then you grab the dog by the bollock's with your new found knowledge.

No I don't mean go big or not at all, but use enough to be effective & stack for best results.

Don't just up the dose!

Hi Beginner

I would def first go those lines first and then build up to gear there is a nice thread on this site were some guys used S-Drol and it shows there cycle and there gains just browse around on here it was recently so it won't take for ever to look for it.

As for S-Drol i know its very border line to gear and please read up so that you can do the proper PCT so as to keep your gains and get your hormones back to normal as soon as possible you really don't want to P!ss all you money and hard work away.