Cutting Cycle Insight

Haai guys,

I will be starting a cut starting September and I would appreciate some thoughts on my planning and cycling of chemicals involved.

To break it down in a narrative:

1 Sep – 30 Sep:
Diet: Keto, will start 24hour carb loads as soon as I attain ketosis for a reasonable time and my metabolism has adjusted.
Chemicals: Will taper up and down on Albuterol in this time to a max of 16mg a day. Every second week I will take antihistamines to up-regulate the beta-2 receptors, 5mg a day.
Workouts: Will be on glycogen depletion workouts until I achieve satisfactory ketosis. Otherwise I will basically lift 4 times a week, AM cardio on those days and swimming on the days I don’t lift.
(Almost like UD2.0 if you are familiar with Lyle's work)

1 Oct – 28 Oct:
Diet: Reintroduce carbs.
Chemicals: Start Clen, taper up to 120ug per day, take 3g of antihistamines for 2 weeks out every 3. I will start T3 on the 2nd tapering up to 75ug (and down again). While on T3, I will use Anavar as a anti-catabolic (reason for inclusion of carbs). I will taper as follows: 20mg 8 days, 60mg 8 days, 40mg 8 days, 20mg 8 days.
Workouts: Will put more emphasis on heavy lifts as apposed to the HIRT style above (not CrossFit lol).

29 Oct – 12 Nov:
Diet: As above until I decide otherwise closer to the time.
Chemicals: Still on Clen.
PCT: Clomid 50mg daily, starting 1.5 hours X half-life of Var from the last Anavar dosing.

Attached is a detailed log.
www.filefactory.com/file/75kfejyikxj7/n/Cutting_Cycle_xlsx

Assume I have my diet and training in check. Can someone give feedback on the chemicals:
+ Using the T3 4 days after completing the Anavar. From what I understand the Anavar will still give suffice anti-catabolic effect. The other option would be to taper sooner and peak higher.
+ Antihistamines of choice. I’ll be using 5mg in the beginning as I have 10mg’s on hand, I might as well split them and use them. After that I’ll have to get some ketotifen or benadryl.

Var:
Week 1: 20mg
Week 2: 40mg, 60 on the last 2 days
Week 3: 60mg first 2 days, 40mg rest of the week
Week 4: 40mg first 2 days, 20mg rest
Week 5: 20mg for 2 days
T3:
Week 1: 12.5ug
Week 2: 37.5 till midweek, 75 after
Week 3: 75ug till midweek, 50 after
Week 4: 50ug till midweek, 25 after
Week 5: 12.5ug for 4 days

Hi bud

Am I right in saying that you are basically going to be on a keto diet while using Clen, T3 and Anavar for six weeks? But you are using the Clen two weeks on one week off..

Add: I do not agree with the way that the compounds are tapered up and -down. What do you have planned for a PCT?

There is no need to taper with anavar.. what is your reasoning?

Honestly i think your over complicating things. Are you goals purely to cut? list your goals and stats?

Furk wrote: Haai guys,

I will be starting a cut starting September and I would appreciate some thoughts on my planning and cycling of chemicals involved.

To break it down in a narrative:

1 Sep – 30 Sep:
Diet: Keto, will start 24hour carb loads as soon as I attain ketosis for a reasonable time and my metabolism has adjusted.
Chemicals: Will taper up and down on Albuterol in this time to a max of 16mg a day. Every second week I will take antihistamines to up-regulate the beta-2 receptors, 5mg a day.
Workouts: Will be on glycogen depletion workouts until I achieve satisfactory ketosis. Otherwise I will basically lift 4 times a week, AM cardio on those days and swimming on the days I don’t lift.
(Almost like UD2.0 if you are familiar with Lyle's work)

1 Oct – 28 Oct:
Diet: Reintroduce carbs.
Chemicals: Start Clen, taper up to 120ug per day, take 3g of antihistamines for 2 weeks out every 3. I will start T3 on the 2nd tapering up to 75ug (and down again). While on T3, I will use Anavar as a anti-catabolic (reason for inclusion of carbs). I will taper as follows: 20mg 8 days, 60mg 8 days, 40mg 8 days, 20mg 8 days.
Workouts: Will put more emphasis on heavy lifts as apposed to the HIRT style above (not CrossFit lol).

29 Oct – 12 Nov:
Diet: As above until I decide otherwise closer to the time.
Chemicals: Still on Clen.
PCT: Clomid 50mg daily, starting 1.5 hours X half-life of Var from the last Anavar dosing.

Attached is a detailed log.
www.filefactory.com/file/75kfejyikxj7/n/Cutting_Cycle_xlsx

Assume I have my diet and training in check. Can someone give feedback on the chemicals:
+ Using the T3 4 days after completing the Anavar. From what I understand the Anavar will still give suffice anti-catabolic effect. The other option would be to taper sooner and peak higher.
+ Antihistamines of choice. I’ll be using 5mg in the beginning as I have 10mg’s on hand, I might as well split them and use them. After that I’ll have to get some ketotifen or benadryl.

I am quite familiar with Mcdonalds work mate and ran a keto diet with great effect. In terms of your diet, I feel that a 24-hour refeed is possibly a tad bit too long given that you running the keto diet for only a 4 week period which is a short period of time. Following your final depletion workout, I would bang out a 12-hour refeed starting 80 percent of which would be from complex carbs and the final 20% comprising of higher glycaemic carbs, possibly split into two cheat meals.

The carb reintroduction phase has to be done with proper care. Keto diets can make you extremely insulin sensitive and I would run your first 7 days or so gradually increasing your carb intake my around 30g/day and limit carb intake to purely complex carbohydrates. After the 7 day period, I would consider swicthing over to a carb cycling diet and splitting your carb intake into low/med and high days.

In terms of the addition of t3 and albuetrol, I would do this as of week 5 of your diet. start the t3 cycle over a six period and basically taper up to maximum dose 80umg at week three and then do a reverse taper down back to 20mcg. I find that clen worked best for me when i ran it alongside the t3 in two day bursts, i.e. two days on and two days off, increasing the dosage by 20mcg each time. You can use the benedryl on your off days to ensure that receptors are upregulated. Run anavar at a dosage of around 60mg at the least for the duration of the t3/clen cycle and I would strongly advise that you stop the t3 more or less around the same time that the anavar is done to ensure that you dont go to catabolic.

I'll be on Clen, T3 and Var at the same time. Yeah, I just want to cut, my reasoning is that I need a anabolic to stop the catabolic effects of the T3. Have had muscle loss on a cut before and I want to avoid it as much as possible.

Im 173cm, 78kgs, no idea what bf%, have no means of measuring till the 31st August on the VA Guess Machine. I've been lifting for about two and a half years, just finishing a bulk.

So what I'm getting is there is no need to taper var? T3 for sure, Clen I'll taper up.
PCT will be clomid ED for 15 days, will be on liver support for the duration of Var and planning on Selenium as well.

Furk wrote: I'll be on Clen, T3 and Var at the same time. Yeah, I just want to cut, my reasoning is that I need a anabolic to stop the catabolic effects of the T3. Have had muscle loss on a cut before and I want to avoid it as much as possible.

Im 173cm, 78kgs, no idea what bf%, have no means of measuring till the 31st August on the VA Guess Machine. I've been lifting for about two and a half years, just finishing a bulk.

So what I'm getting is there is no need to taper var? T3 for sure, Clen I'll taper up.
PCT will be clomid ED for 15 days, will be on liver support for the duration of Var and planning on Selenium as well.

No need to taper var, but I would keep the t3 consistent at around the 60mg mark to be on the safe side. To be honest, I always thought that keto was be all and end all of dieting until i discovered carb cycling. I cannot tell you how superior it is in terms of overall body recomposition. It takes longer than keto to see results but the results are pretty epic when they occur.

Hey GSP, thanks you for your input man! I have since changed things up, I'll do Keto from Sep 1 to Sep 30 (as I will be travelling in this time and I don't like the idea of carrying var on me, also my diet may be less than desirable, but I'm trying to work around that.)

Yeah last time I can off Keto I thought I was selective enough about carb reintroduction and was smacked in the face. I'll be doing it a lot more carefully this time. The only reason I even want to bring back carbs is cause of the Var. I understand running gear without carbs will give less than desirable effects.

Am I right in saying you suggest running albuterol with clen? I do not think that will benefit me any more than increased dosage one of them.

Shot for the help mate!

Furk wrote: I'll be on Clen, T3 and Var at the same time. Yeah, I just want to cut, my reasoning is that I need a anabolic to stop the catabolic effects of the T3. Have had muscle loss on a cut before and I want to avoid it as much as possible.

Im 173cm, 78kgs, no idea what bf%, have no means of measuring till the 31st August on the VA Guess Machine. I've been lifting for about two and a half years, just finishing a bulk.

So what I'm getting is there is no need to taper var? T3 for sure, Clen I'll taper up.
PCT will be clomid ED for 15 days, will be on liver support for the duration of Var and planning on Selenium as well.

Exactly that bud. You are also tapering up too slowly with the Clen. You can run T3 safely at 100mcg. Selenium is good. Also get Solal's thyroid support formula. Liver support is good just not milk thistle hey. Your PCT could be better. Go and read up on PCT 1 in the articles section bud I am sure you will like it.

Furk wrote: Hey GSP, thanks you for your input man! I have since changed things up, I'll do Keto from Sep 1 to Sep 30 (as I will be travelling in this time and I don't like the idea of carrying var on me, also my diet may be less than desirable, but I'm trying to work around that.)

Yeah last time I can off Keto I thought I was selective enough about carb reintroduction and was smacked in the face. I'll be doing it a lot more carefully this time. The only reason I even want to bring back carbs is cause of the Var. I understand running gear without carbs will give less than desirable effects.

Am I right in saying you suggest running albuterol with clen? I do not think that will benefit me any more than increased dosage one of them.

Shot for the help mate!

to be honest running albuetrol with clenbuterol is like running t3 with t4, there is not going to be much difference as the each compound is basically weaker than the other.

Albuetrol is a bit milder in sides as oppossed to clen but also not as effective at burning fat. Id seriously just incorporate the clen and t3 in cycle. What I do suggest is, if u keen, is that if you running the two-day on two-day off clen split is to drop some eca in on the off days. Again, some may say this is overkill, but its all dependent on your goals. I strongly recommend however that anyone intending to run a cutting cycle comprising of clen/t3 have there bp checked before the cycle. I get killer headaches of the compunds which have been attributed to high BP.

As for your expectations with the var, if you running a continuous calorie deficit do not expect any additional muscle gain with the compiund. var by itself is extremely weak unless u knocking back around 80-100mg of the stuff on a calorie surplus diet. It is anti-catabolic which is the main reasons its incorporated into cutting cycles.

@GSP: Hey man I here what you're saying about var, all I'm expecting is to stop the catabolism of the T3.

@Pyro: Yeah I've gone through it the PCT article, I just though running Nolva in addition to the Clomid for Var would be overkill.

Furk wrote: @GSP: Hey man I here what you're saying about var, all I'm expecting is to stop the catabolism of the T3.

@Pyro: Yeah I've gone through it the PCT article, I just though running Nolva in addition to the Clomid for Var would be overkill.

agree with pyro on this one, pct could be a bit better mate. Ive run var amd tbol cycles before and basically run a pct protocol of tamoxifen at 40/40/20/20 over a four week period. Var is midly supressive but still requires pct, but in my humble opinion a clomid/nolvadex pct protocl may be overkill. others may beg to differ but thats my take on things.

It's not absolutely necessary to run the Nolva. The Nolva is more there to keep the extra estrogen from the Clomid under control. This is where lots of people get hectic estrogen related sides especially gyno. You are welcome to leave it out but I just feel for the price difference why not run the Nolva and be sure you have a good PCT. For me personally the PCT is the most important part of the cycle.

Pyroclasm wrote: It's not absolutely necessary to run the Nolva. The Nolva is more there to keep the extra estrogen from the Clomid under control. This is where lots of people get hectic estrogen related sides especially gyno. You are welcome to leave it out but I just feel for the price difference why not run the Nolva and be sure you have a good PCT. For me personally the PCT is the most important part of the cycle.

Yeam, was actualluy advocating that clomid be left out of this pct and that nolva be used as the only compound.

If he only uses Nolva then what will get his test levels back to normal?

Pyroclasm wrote: If he only uses Nolva then what will get his test levels back to normal?

mmmm the nolvadex would satisfy that purpose mate

Thanks for the input guys, appreciate the insight, I'm busy reworking things, I'll let you know what changes I make.

Furk wrote: Thanks for the input guys, appreciate the insight, I'm busy reworking things, I'll let you know what changes I make.

@pyroclasm: Can you hit me up on *********? Cheers bro

Remove your email address immediately dude. Against the rules and a quick way to get banned.

Pyroclasm wrote: It's not absolutely necessary to run the Nolva. The Nolva is more there to keep the extra estrogen from the Clomid under control. This is where lots of people get hectic estrogen related sides especially gyno. You are welcome to leave it out but I just feel for the price difference why not run the Nolva and be sure you have a good PCT. For me personally the PCT is the most important part of the cycle.

Oh...also to just correct this. Both clomid and nolvadex are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMS) which mean that they bind on to estrogen receptors and prevent estrogen which is formed through testerosteron aromotization from binding onto these receptors throughout the body and thus possibly resulting in gyno. Both compunds stimpulate the output of leutenizing hormone in the pituitary which in turn results in the testes producing testesterone.


So in summation, neither clomid or nolvadex produces estrogen. Both are SERMS which block estrogen from binding onto receptors and also stimulate the testes to start producing test again after they shutdown in the presecne of AAS

Muscleaddict wrote: Remove your email address immediately dude. Against the rules and a quick way to get banned.

Is there anyway to PM?

Nope.

Muscleaddict wrote:

Furk wrote: Thanks for the input guys, appreciate the insight, I'm busy reworking things, I'll let you know what changes I make.

@pyroclasm: Can you hit me up on *********? Cheers bro

Remove your email address immediately dude. Against the rules and a quick way to get banned.

Sorry bro! No one on this site actually uses Anabolic Steroids- we just discuss the hypothetical use of steroids so that we can advise and care for friends who sometimes abuse them. The main reason I am on this site is to learn about dieting and supplements. Remember that steroids are illegal and you will have to move to England if you want to use them legally.

:lol: pyro is correct, even my cycle log is just a hypothesis

GSP wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote: It's not absolutely necessary to run the Nolva. The Nolva is more there to keep the extra estrogen from the Clomid under control. This is where lots of people get hectic estrogen related sides especially gyno. You are welcome to leave it out but I just feel for the price difference why not run the Nolva and be sure you have a good PCT. For me personally the PCT is the most important part of the cycle.

Oh...also to just correct this. Both clomid and nolvadex are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMS) which mean that they bind on to estrogen receptors and prevent estrogen which is formed through testerosteron aromotization from binding onto these receptors throughout the body and thus possibly resulting in gyno. Both compunds stimpulate the output of leutenizing hormone in the pituitary which in turn results in the testes producing testesterone.


So in summation, neither clomid or nolvadex produces estrogen. Both are SERMS which block estrogen from binding onto receptors and also stimulate the testes to start producing test again after they shutdown in the presecne of AAS

You know every time I think I have a handle on this topic someone else confuses me again.. In our own articles section we write: "I personally do not see the benefit of Clomid over Nolvadex in our PCT as all studies clearly point out that Nolvadex does a better job and is a more “pure” SERM, it is also reported that the pituitary requires higher amounts of hypothalamic Gonadotropin-releasing hormone when Clomid is used in order to achieve the same level of LH stimulation when compared to that of Tamoxifen." So why do we use both in a PCT? And why can't we just run Nolvadex? Someone please explain this to me.. :dazed: