Dhea

While having lunch with Milos he brought up the use of DHEA and he said its not just an aid for bodybuilders over 40 but also used in PCT for the following reasons. Steroids suppress cortisol (fact) but once a cycle is completed cortisol levels will gradually increase hence the increase in water retention that follows at the end of a cycle. That is a increase in cortizone chewing up your hard earned gains. DHEA is very useful since it helps suppress excess cortisol levels and helps stabalize all sex hormones in the body. Interesting theory. Ronnie Coleman is also a big believer in DHEA although he is over 40 maybe there is indeed more than one use for this hormone. Makes for interesting discussion????????

A well known fact, not just an interesting theory! Our bodies produce prohormones, of which DHEA and Androstenedione are two such prohormones that are used in the cascade of steroid hormones that eventually will produce oestrogens in women and testosterones in men. Both DHEA and Andro are found in varying amounts in both males and females. The DHEA levels are the highest at your age of 20 -30 years, but the levels decrease gradually as we get older, 30 - 40 we have already lost about 10% of the production and at the age of 80, we have only 10% production left. Young healthy males will produce ± 20 - 40 mg of testosterone per 24 hours, this all comes from DHEA. DHEA is derived from pregnonolone, which again is very similar to cortisol. In state of homeostases, all is balanced, thus testosterone production = cortisol production(simplified). As DHEA levels decrease, the base matter from which test. is formed from, also decreases and cortisol starts getting the \"upper hand\" - that's why we gradually start loosing lean body mass beyond the age of 40.
See where this is going? DHEA supplementation, esp beyond the age of 40, is extremely beneficial, not only in men, but in women too.
You will be wasting good money if you supplement with DHEA before the age of 40!
How much anabolic is it? Not more than 20 - 40mg natural testosterone per day, because your body will under normal circumstances not produce more than that. That's why it helps \"balancing\" your own anabolic hormones.
It's a waste to use it while you are on a juice cycle, as DHEA is used only in your own natural cascade of test. production, which in turn you have \"switched off\" by the use of exogenous testosterone.
Dhea is best used post cycle or off juice time. Dosages vary - most men will do good on 100 - 200mg per day and women on 25 - 50 mg per day. Even better is to split its use - take 100mg DHEA + 100 mg Androstenedione + a product like Zestobolan( the latter is high in content of ZMA, Ecdysterone). A combination as such will preserve your lean body mass, keeping your natural testosterone production at peak and cotisol levels under control.

I agree I have been using it PCT on myself and the athletes who come to me with excellent results for a good few years now it was just great to hear Milos bring it up and confirm that it is viable using it. The additions you have made are also very useful makes perfect sense.

Hi Guys

Is it better to use kessar/nolvadex during a cycle than using Proviron?

Which from the is is better during a cycle?

Also for post cycle, which would be more effective: pregnyl or clomid?

A couple of quick facts:
Kessar is an anti-oestrogen, that primarily binds to the oestrogen receptors in breast tissue only, thus effectively blocking oestrogen to bind to these receptors ang causing gynaemastia.
Proviron is a very \"funny\" molecule - it can be seen as an \"uncoupler\" type of molecule. It has an extreme high affinity for SHBG(sex hormone binding globuline). The latter is the transporter system that transports all your sex hormones in its bio-inactive form. When Proviron binds to SHBG, it displaces your sex hormones and in effect raises the bio-available form of such.
Pregnyl and clomid should be used as a combination in PCT - they both work on different receptor systems and combined, renders synergy on stimulating your natural testosterone production.

I understand that but which one would be better to use during a cycle?

Does proviron not help with gyno, would gyno still occur? Should I therefore use both?

Here is my cycle please advise as to where I should increase/decrease or use diff products. My aim is to gain some mass, yet maintain solid muscle.

Please view the file and advise.

Thanks guys (File Removed)

Lategp wrote:

I understand that but which one would be better to use during a cycle?

Does proviron not help with gyno, would gyno still occur? Should I therefore use both?

Here is my cycle please advise as to where I should increase/decrease or use diff products. My aim is to gain some mass, yet maintain solid muscle.

Please view the file and advise.

Thanks guy

I think that 20mg of Kessar (Tamoxifen) per day will be enough to combat gyno. That is not an extremely potent cycle as far as estrogen buildup is concerned. If you do experience signs of gyno you can push the Kessar up to 40mg, but I don't think that will be necessary.

I'm not sure about your Clomid therapy though, I think I saw that method on steroids.com, but I've heard that some people get weird side-effects from dosages above 100mg / day. It will probably still work, but you might be better off to try the cycle the way I modified it. (see attachment)

Note that in this cycle you inject 0.5ml of Testen and Deca every 4th day.

I didn't include the daily Kessar nor the ECA in your cycle; you can do that on your own, but it could get expensive to run Kessar through out the entire cycle.

Wait for more opinions from other members, you never know; I might be wrong :blush: (File Removed)

would I be able to mix the deca and testen in one syringe?

Would the proviron be totally unnecessary?

Would it still be a good addition though?

Thank you for the cycle.

I was thinking that I would inject testen on mon and deca on friday? would this have a lessor effect than the way you have mentioned it? (File Removed)

I please view and comment for me ... thanks

Yes, you can mix the Deca and Testen in one syringe.

You can chose between Proviron and Kessar, it's your call. But I thought that Proviron is more expensive.

I don't think it will make any difference if you inject on different days, because the half lives of both Deca and Testen is quite long. But the more frequent the injections the better, because then you will get a more even spike of hormone.

Everything sounds great ... I am also running Winstrol would the doses I am takin be fine ... I heard that you shouln't run it for more than 6 weeks but I'll push for seven.

Would Proviron be a better add during a cycle than Kessar though (this is the last time I'll ask ... ha ha ha)

The Winstrol dosages look fine, but you don't have to taper it down towards the end. The main reason why oral Winstrol is only run for about 6-8 week is because of it's toxicity.

Proviron will not necessarily be better as an anti-oestrogen, but it does have the added benefit of being a strong Androgen.

Look at my Mesterolone (Proviron) and Tamoxifen (Kessar) profiles.

Lategp,
I will just again mention that they are 2 different drugs and accomplish different end results.
Proviron is not a strong androgen in itself, BUT has a strong androgenic effect by displacing your bound androgens from SHBG, thus raising the levels of the bio-active part of your hormones. It is quite a safe drug, with minimal toxic effect on the liver. Dosages range from 25-100mg in general, but it is my opinion that you do not need too high dosages. I know of some guys using in the range of 250mg per day - I think they are wasting their money. You just have so much SHBG to bind and then nothing more....
It is a good drug to use at, say 25mg per day through out your cycle - it will increase your effective androgen dosages. Pre-contest you can increase to dosages of up to 75mg per day.

I also noted that you are using your Pregnyl whilst still on Testen. I think this is a mistake. You should waite until the last testosterone dosage has \"worked itself out\" of your system, then only start Pregnyl. It will not activate your testii whilst the latter are still suppressed by exogenous testosterone. Say you use an enanthate ester, you should waite atleast 2 weeks after the last injection, before you start PCT, a cypionate 10 days, a propionate 48 -72 hours and Tren ± 5 days.
There was an excellent article on the mode of action of Proviron a couple of months ago in the Muscle Evolution Mag. It was written by JuiceBoy and is very informative. Try and source it if you can.
Pregnyl dosages also very a lot - it all depends on how long and how high a dose of androgens you were using. Some guys using very high doses of androgens will generally start with 5000IU's on the first day, followed by 2500IU's every 4'th day, for a total of 15 000IU's PCT. I think you will only need 1500IU's, as your cycle is not a very heavy androgenic one.

PCT is a very complicated subject, as there are many things that need to be rehabilitated all at the same time, ASAP.

When I have some time, I will compile a frame work of what I think should be used, and why it should be used in that manner. But that's for later....

I use Both Proviron and Kessar,,

Proviron at 100mg /daily and kessar at 20mg /daily

Get your proviron from the pharmacy if you can, I'm not convinced about the legitimacy of the Pakistani Proviron that's floating around

They apparently go at about R5 a tab - Proviron Wholesale now at abouit R7,50 a tab. I will always go for the real stuff where possible, and just use it sparingly and at effective doses.