Cycles without worrying about PCT

I have tried this "Pyramid" style of using juice. Believe it or not folks ( dunno if its just me ), but by "tapering" juice UP....AND down...I didn't need to use PCT. Reason? Simple: As you start tapering down, your "marbles" slowly start to "produce" your own test again...meaning you also dont go through the HOT FLUSHES and shit like that...Any other folks experienced the same type of results?

Robin Hood wrote: As you start tapering down, your "marbles" slowly start to "produce" your own test again...

Explain? :huh:

can i ask how you KNOW you dont need a pct?? do you go for bloods pre and post cycle? look while you young you can maybe get away with it a few times, but for the price of even just a basic clomid, nolva and hcg its stupid not to include it

PoisonedPulse wrote: can i ask how you KNOW you dont need a pct?? do you go for bloods pre and post cycle? look while you young you can maybe get away with it a few times, but for the price of even just a basic clomid, nolva and hcg its stupid not to include it

This... And if the OP didnt do such selective research... He would have learnt that the theory behind this protocol is wrong... I dare you to do the same with a decent deca cycle... And lets see were you get.

Why would you not want go take the safest and secure, researched method? And risk your gains in the process?

If you guys read more carefully ( no offence ), you will notice my answer is more a question THAN an answer...lol
No, what i have tried ( did this YEARS ago and got this advice from quite a long-time juice user ) is exactly as comming out of an alchololic or any drug addiction. Seeing your body get "addapted" to the amount on juice being use, it actually shuts down its own production. What i figured out is ( i dont say it IS so, or is NOT so...merely an analization on my part ) is that as soos as you stop using juice ( let say "X-" amount per week for 12+ weeks ...and you SUDDENLY stop ), its like a shock to the system to get your TEST up to "par" again ( as your body has scaled down on producing its own test, seeing it now gets test from ANOTHER source ( injections ). By "tapering Down", it "seems" that your test levels start up again ( lets say after 12+ weeks of shooring, you start sooting every 2nd week....then every 3rd week, and so on ). I remember in the EARLY years '70's the bodybuilder use to use this type of injection methods...or so i have heard. Whay I'm basicly trying to say is, it "seems" as if you taper down gradually, so does your OWN production of test builds up again...leaving you without the reason to use PCT. ( Remember...pct is there to bring your levels up quickly so you dont hit a "bottom" regarding your test and testosterone production )
Remember, most guys use juice on a "fixed" amount every week/day...and thats the same way they stop ( by stopping on the EXACT amount that they started with )

Even if you taper down, your body wont produce testosteron when you are injecting an exogenous testosterone - Regardless of the dose. Even TRT causes shutdown.

Yes, tapering doses in AAS doesn't make sense.


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...interesting. Maybe I'm just one of those "lucky" folks...I remember when i used the "pyramiding"-style of using juice (upping my dose gradually (amount-wise)...then kept it on a specific level...then reducing my dose till i stopped injecting ), i gradually came back to normal WITHOUT using PCT...but there was a time when i tried it WITHOUT using the Pyramid-style, and nearly DIED of all the "flushes" 'n stuff....also i went into a sort of "depression"-state...so to speak by not using PCT.

Robin Hood wrote: ...interesting. Maybe I'm just one of those "lucky" folks...I remember when i used the "pyramiding"-style of using juice (upping my dose gradually (amount-wise)...then kept it on a specific level...then reducing my dose till i stopped injecting ), i gradually came back to normal WITHOUT using PCT...but there was a time when i tried it WITHOUT using the Pyramid-style, and nearly DIED of all the "flushes" 'n stuff....also i went into a sort of "depression"-state...so to speak by not using PCT.

how do you no that you were actually back to normall? did you get bloodwork done to prove this? you may think you were back to normall but you dont actually no. Pyramiding just makes no sense to me.

Look if you do a 12 week cycle then after your 12th injection you wait 36days till pct, during those 36days the test levels are start dropping until theres no more in your system so you are slowly getting off it, your natural test production wont start again until theres no more endogenous test left in your body, Thats why pct is needed, by pyramiding your dosage down your just keeping your natural test levels suppressed for longer. This is what i understand about the topic..

Please give me a possible reason for not wanting to do pct ??

Its cheap
Isint difficult to do
And works

What are the benifits of not doing it ??
Save yourself a few hundred bucks ??

I get the feeling that the lot of us are talking past each other... So im just gonna tune this straight:

@robin hood : most of us know about tapering. Most of us know it is old, outdated, suboptimal and undesireable.
so most of dont bother with it, since we value our gains.

why is there still a discussion about it?
Im not trying to be rude, so please just tell me if im missing the point.

In essance... Why are you still trying to invent the wheel if everybody else is driving ferarris?

Well said dude...

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@Robin Hood, please do a pyramid cycle for us with no Pct and log your results and findings for us to settle this matter once and for all.

Regards

I think he gets the message.

Yeah, no need to go thermonuclear on the guy...

admin wrote: Yeah, no need to go thermonuclear on the guy...

lol :lol:

Robin Hood wrote: If you guys read more carefully ( no offence ), you will notice my answer is more a question THAN an answer...lol
No, what i have tried ( did this YEARS ago and got this advice from quite a long-time juice user ) is exactly as comming out of an alchololic or any drug addiction. Seeing your body get "addapted" to the amount on juice being use, it actually shuts down its own production. What i figured out is ( i dont say it IS so, or is NOT so...merely an analization on my part ) is that as soos as you stop using juice ( let say "X-" amount per week for 12+ weeks ...and you SUDDENLY stop ), its like a shock to the system to get your TEST up to "par" again ( as your body has scaled down on producing its own test, seeing it now gets test from ANOTHER source ( injections ). By "tapering Down", it "seems" that your test levels start up again ( lets say after 12+ weeks of shooring, you start sooting every 2nd week....then every 3rd week, and so on ). I remember in the EARLY years '70's the bodybuilder use to use this type of injection methods...or so i have heard. Whay I'm basicly trying to say is, it "seems" as if you taper down gradually, so does your OWN production of test builds up again...leaving you without the reason to use PCT. ( Remember...pct is there to bring your levels up quickly so you dont hit a "bottom" regarding your test and testosterone production )
Remember, most guys use juice on a "fixed" amount every week/day...and thats the same way they stop ( by stopping on the EXACT amount that they started with )

ok, well I can understand where you from mate as your do correctly point out that the body does, to a certain extent, react when there is an imbalance. However, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that your body will start producing test on its own by simply messing around with your exogenous test dosages.

Once you introduce a synthetic compound into ur body, you androgen/estrogen/ progesterone receptors sends feedback via the HPTA axis telling your body that there is a hormonal imbalance. The body responds to this by sending a signal to your pituitary gland to stop producing LH and FSH, which both in turn influence our testes to produce testesterone. Now when LH and FSH stops, the number of leydig cells (cells which actually produce test) decrease, ultimately leading to a condition known as testicular atrophy or shrunken balls. The only way to kickstart natural testesterone production is to basically kickstart the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH again, so that these hormones can signal the leydig cells, which will now be at reduced number, to restart testesterone production. You will notice that most pct will begin with the addition of HCG. HCG basically mimimcs LH and in the body and when present will see an increase in the prescence of Leydig cells, which in turn will ur body resuming testesterone production. However, the HCG will still not signal the pituitary gland to naturally produce LH and FSH, hence, we include the use of SERMS (nolva and clomid) to do this.

As you can see, our bodies natural hormonal production is not a simple on/off function but rather an intricate mechanism where one cog is reliant on the other in order to complete its function. Without a pct you do not stimulate the pdocution of more leydig cells, you are not stimulating the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH, and therefore you are in no way kickstarting your body's natty test production. And no, I doubt you can be medical anomaly which is not bound by the normal functions of the human endocrine system, so i doubt that you have in any way been lucky but u have rather been misinformed.

That's your cue MA.. climb in.

CHAPEL wrote: That's your cue MA.. climb in.

Hahahahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

CHAPEL wrote: That's your cue MA.. climb in.

If there is anything that needs to be corrected and if there is anyone more knowledgeable on the issue then I am, which I have come to note that MA generally is, then I would really appreciate being corrected as it would better aid my understanding of the use of AAS and thus be able to formulate better cycles for myself and also aid in giving others advice where I see fit. My answer to this post was not to incite some dick-swinging contest or to claim to be a complete expert on issues relating to the human endocrine system. I merely formulated the response as a means of highlighting the fact that natural test production was not as simple as our testes are either producing it or they not, but rather that it was a complex process which is subject to proper function of various hormonal glands.

If I am coming cross as being overly sensitive, then please forgive me. Ive around 100mg of tren ace working through my system and I have been utterly miserable for the past 48 hours.

Oh I wasn't implying that there is anything wrong. I didn't even read your post. I just saw LH and HCG and FSH and well.. MA has a homing beacon when these things are typed on the forum.

CHAPEL wrote: Oh I wasn't implying that there is anything wrong. I didn't even read your post. I just saw LH and HCG and FSH and well.. MA has a homing beacon when these things are typed on the forum.

dude..sincerest apologies...ive been in a bad/miserable/hostile mood for a few days now and now am feeling like an even bigger douche. Ill give you some karma as an apology.

Didn't see you as a douche for a second mate have one back for being a champ.

CHAPEL wrote: Didn't see you as a douche for a second mate have one back for being a champ.

I think im having a clomid moment :blush: