Anavar, Proviron and 3F (Fat Furnace Fifteen)

Howdy,

Plan on doing a cutting cycle early in the new year.

Basic plan is 12 week training program of weights and cardio.
At least 5 days per week. Preferably 05h00 before breakfast but with a new baby in the house I know there will be the odd pyjama patrol. Will aim to be in bed by 20h00. Latest 20h30. Aiming for minimum 8-9 hours sleep per night.
Apart from the obvious eating "clean" aiming for a daily 500kJ deficit (1800kJ)

Plan is:

Week 1-4:
Weights and Cardio, eating clean.
Suplements: Omega 3&6 1000mg per day
Protein shakes post workout, 15h00 and late night "snack"

Week 5-12: add in to the above
Anavar (60mg/day) - 20mg 3 x day at 8 hour intervals
Proviron 20mg morning and evening.
Legalon 1 tab 3 x per day
Thiamine 100mg daily
Essentiale 1 cap twice a day

Week 9-12:
Add in 3F at recommended dosage

BF% currently at around 14%. Looking to come down to below 10%.

Is it beneficial to do a ketogenic diet the last 4 weeks with the 3F or is this not necessary and/or dangerous.

I assume that Pre-workouts like Hellfire are a no no as the stimualnt load will be too high.

1800calories not KJ hey. 1800KJ is what they use for a Bulk in Ethiopia (there is no such thing as cutting). I would leave the AAS and just stick to fat burners. Something that bugs me is this 12 week thing. Are you literally just going to gym for 12 weeks and then stop? Good to have you on the forum brother looking forward to more.

Post your diet. I would do keto yes. FFF is a brand new product so we are not 100% certain about its interactions with others. Try the pre-workout and see how it interacts. By the sound of it you won't really need a pre-workout as most get that wired feeling from the FFF.

howdy Pyro.

Been a while. New little one in the house (18 months after vasectomy) So gymming been impossible.

Baby starting to sleep through so hopefully in the new year I'll be able to do the 05h00 training again.

Good thing is my weight has stayed constant (ok small lie, 2kg up) but considering the amount of activity not too bad I reckon.

The 12 week thing I suppose is a personal thing. Feel 8 weeks is just too little and 12 weeks is minimum to commit to serious training-comes-first regimen, but the max I can given the sacrifice by the family. Normally I would aim to train at least 3 times a week.

It is also a strain on the rest of the family as they will be losing out on morning walks with the dog etc. Meals are not simple anymore as I will be controlling what and when I eat.

Any program like this is incredibly selfish (much like high level sport). One thing if you're a Bok rugby player and get 5 Bar a year. But seeing we do this with no financial reward...

Ok, back to business.

Workouts: Will be both weights and cardio. 45 minutes each.
Plan on doing from 05h00 to about 06h30. Mon-Fri. Weekends rest but also go shoot some fish if weather holds. If not I may find myself doing an hour or two of cardio.


Weights will incorporate all muscle groups on a rotational basis.
Exercises will be mixed to ensure muscles are always shocked. e.g., one week bench with barbells, next with dumbells. Supersets, drop sets, etc.

I don't fk around and chat. I plan my workouts the night before so I don't stand around thinking what to do next. I also log weights on sets so I know whether I'm improving or not. Obviously I have a plan B exercise incase equipment is busy, but never really have that problem at our gym. And the equipment is world class and in top condition.

Mon: Legs (like big muscle groups after weekend to kickstart metabolism)
Tue: Chest
Wed: Back
Thu: Bi's and Tri's
Fri: Shoulders
Abs I'll do at home, crunches, pilatus with beach ball etc. Twice a week.

Cardio:
Treadmill 20min, walking at 6km/h at max incline. Rugby gave me sore knees so running not really an option.
Ergometer for 10min at max 2:03/500m. Aim to do 2.5km. Hopefully at end of 12 weeks can do 3km in 11min (1:50/500m)\
Stairmaster for 15minutes. Our gym has this nifty mcgafter that literaly looks like an escalator. Interval at 70 and 90 steps/min

Lastly (and probably most importantly) Diet.
I will basically follow the USN 12 week challenge diet (there's the 12 week thing again, hehehe )
I'm not going to get all the "supplememts" they push.
I will use the Pure Protein post workout, afternoon snack (~15h00) and just before bed.
I will use the diet fuel as the morning snack.
Creatine to beused all through the course.

A mate of mine did this and the results were incredible, for both him and his wife. Although he didn't do the gym thing as strictly as perhaps he should.

I'm not for a minute expecting to look like the poster boys, carrying alot of weight around my middle means I have some excess skin so will have to live with that. Hoping that in 2 years using thinmgs like bio oil will help shrink the skin down. I don't know if you recall, but earlier in the year I was at 12% BF, down from 18 but the middle was still bulgy. By strictly adhering to the diet plan I beleive I can come down to under 10%. Currently I'm probably sitting at 14-15%.

As for teh pre-workout, I would take that about 15 minutes before gymn, i.e. 04h45. The FFF insofar I understand would have to be taken with breakfast. This is where I worry that the stimulant effects would make me seriously jumpy. I would rather err on the side of caution and leave it out altogether.

As for the Keto - how long? I take it 4 weeks not really enough. And the the worry there is lean muscle loss as well as fat loss.

Congrats on the little one bro! I know they take up all your free time. Regarding the USN diet... Rrrrright..... Bud you have to realise that people can normally go from 30-20% bodyfat in two months literally by just cutting out bread and sugar. Then all their friends think they have found this magical soup diet with a fruit only detox on the weekends. Others have really good genes and drop down to low BF inspire of their diets, not because of them. I have this idea, where one does not go and ask the guy with the most impressive chest in the gym for chest advice, but rather the guy who's chest is the least impressive of all his body parts. Why? Because that guy didn't get the genes to have a perfect chest simply by looking at the chest press machine. That guy knows he has a problem and is spending all his free time researching other chest methods and better techniques and perfect form. That guy will help you much better. It is the same with dieting and steroids too. Ask your local mass monster at the gym for AAS advice and you will see what I mean. People lose/gain weight INSPITE of their terrible diets, not because of them. The question you have to ask yourself is how much better would their results have been had they been eating properly. Straight up your USN diet is a load of kak and liquid food and you need to decide if you want to take this serious or not. The ball is in your court..

Hi Pyro,

Ass whuppin taken. Thanks for being frank.

Ok.

Basically have calculated my maintenance calorie needs with the Harris-Benedict formula.

Stats currently are:
Age: 38
Weight: 95kg
Height: 168cm
Current BF% ~14%
My activity level is circa 1.4.

This returns a maintenance of 2730kCal per day.

Ok, so if I want to drop weight I need to consume less than this per day. Pretty obvious.

I'm aiming for 900kCal deficit per day. 400kCal via diet and 500kCal via weights and cardio.
An hour on a spinning bike burns ~ 400kCal.
I am unsure of how much weights burn but will be mainly supersetting medium weights. eg a chest superset goes:
dumbells benchpress: (kg's) 24,28,32,34,36 Reps 12,12,10,8,8
Flyes: (kg's) 10,12,12,14,14 Reps 12,12,12,10,8
Incline: (kg's) 18,20,22,22,24 Reps 12,12,10,8,6 with 30 second rest between each set of three exercises
Weights aren't heavy but I lift without anyone spotting and focus on form (a very NB tip received from Reg Park when I was at school)

Back to the nutrition side:
Looking at a 50/30/20 Prot/Carbs/Fat split. I'm keeping protein higher to make sure I don't cut lean mass (or as little as possible).

I will have a "cheat meal" over the weekend. One of the guys at our gymn is a bodybuilder in his early 50's and gave me the cheat meal tip when my weight was stagnant. Once I did that I dropped big time. (If you may recall, I was 107kg in 2010, dropped down to 92kg with a 5kg increase in lean. Currently at 95kg because with new baby in house gymn not a possibility, but looking at getting back in either Feb or MArch)

Thus daily nutritional requirements are: (2300kCal daily). With no Carbs after 18h00.
Protein: 275g
Carbs: 165g
Fats: 50g

I took note on the opinion of liq vs whole food so will incorporate more whole food and minimise the liquid stuff as much as possible but will still have to rely on the odd protein shake.
THere are enough info sites giving the right foods and low/high GI groups and calorie values.

Is this realistic or insanity?

If OK I will start working on what and when I will be eating in what proportions.

Thanks

Realisitic. Cheat meals are very NB for dieting even for people on fat loss! Regarding your stats, at your height and weight with 14% BF you should be a beef cake. Are you sure your BF is right? For your diet, minus theoretical calories by 20% so as to compensate for hidden nutrients. E.g If you want 2000 cals, you should set up your diet for 1600 cals.

Ye at that hight and weight you must be built like quite a shit house already.

Howdy.

Yes I am quite stocky. Which is the main reason I don't want to bulk arms and legs.
Pyro if you remember in an earlier topic I gave my caliper readings and queried the accuracy of BF%. I am very Lean on my legs and arms and carry apt of flab around the middle. The reading were done by 2 different people and the results almost similar, varying very slightly.
I mentioned I am think of bulking up the chest and shoulders a bit to basically fill the excess skin I'll have if I lose the excess flab around the middle.

CycloTrpTyr wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote: I get your BF @14.53% using the Jackson-Pollack 4 site method.

If you want to use the 7-site method you need to get your chest and mid-axillary measurements. For the 9-site method you need the same.

Just a quick question! How reliable/accurate are caliper tests?

THe reason I ask is that I measured in at 12.2% using 9 point Parillo and measured by two people completely unrelated to each others businesses.

My readings are:
Chest: 5mm & 5
Ab: 21mm & 22
Thigh: 9mm & 8
Bicep: 6mm & 6
Tricep: 8mm & 8
Subscap: 13mm & 12
Suprailliac: 10mm & 11
Lower back: 11mm & 11
Calf: 7mm & 7

Both guys said to me the high Ab is basically skin and hardly any fat. They said due to my age it probably won't shrink (even though I Bio-oil like a biaatch) and a nip tuck is the solution (NOT an option)

But if I look at photos of other guys I think I look more around the 18% mark.

Calipers are majorly affected by water retention but are indeed quite reliable given that your readings are done by an expert. Seeing that these two guys are so damn close I would say it is accurate. You are just like me in that you carry all your fat around your mid-section (awesome hey! ) but your other parts are very lean, hence why you are at a lower bodyfat. All those pics of bodyfat percentages are extremely focused on the abdominal region which is bull.