Albertdup´s Cycle Discussion

Hi All

A quick update. I am back from Asia and was unable to exercise while there. Had ear infection in both ears, so it felt as if I was stepping through the ground or the world turning around me for two weeks, not ideal if you loose your balance standing still. Yet I lost more fat and a bit of muscle, understandable considering I was unable to do any training. These are the results after 5 weeks. 3.5 weeks of no training. I lost a centimetre on each arm. I struggle to get size on my arms and they are the first to size down. Had first Gym session yesterday and it went ok.

Body fat calliper measurements: Using Jackson/ Pollock 7 Calliper Method.
Chest 7 mm started at 12 mm reduction: 5mm
Abdominal 22 mm started at 31 mm reduction: 9mm
Thigh 10 mm started at 12 mm reduction: 2mm
Tricep 5 mm started at 7 mm reduction: 2mm
Subscapular 14 mm started at 18 mm reduction: 4mm
Suprailiac 10 mm started at 18 mm reduction: 8mm
Midaxiliary 10 mm started at 13 mm reduction: 3mm

Body Weight: 89.8Kg, Started at 95.8 Kg, Reduction 6 Kg
Body fat: 12.17%, Started at 16.93%, Reduction 4.76%
Body Fat: 10.93 Kg, Started at 16.25 Kg, Reduction 5.32 Kg
Lean Body Weight: 78.87Kg, Started at 79.75 Kg, Reduction 0.88 Kg

Body Measurements.
Upper Arm R 32 cm
Upper Arm L 31.5 cm
Upper Arm R Flexed 38 cm
Upper Arm L Flexed 38 cm
Chest Relax 110 cm
Chest Flexed 117 cm
Waist Normal 98 cm
Upper Leg Relax R 60 cm
Upper Leg Relax L 59 cm
Calve R 41 cm
Calve L 41.5 cm
Shoulders 120 cm

Here is a current picture and my goal. I am going for a very lean athletic look. I struggle to gain muscle, so I don't want to have unrealistic expectations of getting big. Yet even with this I will need some help. So I will appreciate some suggestions. I looked at the beginner cycle and noticed a huge gap in between is that correct? I also realised I will have to eat a lot, that's why I want to get body fat as low as posable in next two months and then try to gain as much muscle while keeping body fat in check. Suggestions in doing this will be appreciated as I have been reading a lot of conflicting information.

You can achieve that look without a cycle. Proper training program and diet is all you need.

Ye you Def don't need juice to look like that. Just commitment to a diet and training programe

As stated before I tried to get to an achievable goal. I would like a bit more muscle mass than that but I know how I struggle to gain muscle mass. Therefore I thought that might be posable with some help. I work from home and sit in front of a computer for 9-11 hours a day. The only serious exercise I get is when I go to Gym. Walking from one room to the other ain't much of a cardio workout. Advantage is I can time my meals properly and can make pretty anything I need. I go to the gym 6 days a week early in the morning splitting up into Chest, Back, Shoulders, Arms, Legs and a dedicated cardio day. I do 5 exercises per muscle group of 4 sets of 8-10 reps with a warm ups set of 15 reps at the start of each exercise. I try to reach failure on my last set of each exercise. This work out at around 40 minutes of weight training, I then do 20 minutes of Cardio with an average Heart Rate of 160. On the dedicated Cardio day I do low intensity cardio with heart rate average of 140 for 40 minutes. I do abdominal exercises every other day.

To bulk up I tried diet stipulating eating 1.5g Protein 2g Carbs and 1g Fat per pound of Body weight at 90 Kg it works out at 220g protein 360g Carbs and 180g Fat a day. This resulted in 1kg of muscle gain with 6kg of Fat gain over a period of two months.

My body Fat got too high and thats why I started FFF Its coming down now so I am looking forward to be able to see my abs again its been way to long since I could see them.

I am currently eating a lot less carbs, 200g a day with 250g of protein and 150g of fat. I am loosing fat so it seems to be working ok.

Your feedback is appreciated, and I would like to learn as much as posable.

Albertdup wrote: To bulk up I tried diet stipulating eating 1.5g Protein 2g Carbs and 1g Fat per pound of Body weight at 90 Kg it works out at 220g protein 360g Carbs and 180g Fat a day. This resulted in 1kg of muscle gain with 6kg of Fat gain over a period of two months.

My body Fat got too high and thats why I started FFF Its coming down now so I am looking forward to be able to see my abs again its been way to long since I could see them.

I am currently eating a lot less carbs, 200g a day with 250g of protein and 150g of fat. I am loosing fat so it seems to be working ok.

Your feedback is appreciated, and I would like to learn as much as posable.

That was almost 4000cals a day. Obviously your body does not use nearly as much, hence the big fat gain. I think you should have aimed for max 2500 cals on your bulk, and increased cals every week you don´t gain fat until you find your sweet spot. The carbs in there as well are pretty killer and most would swell like the Oros man. ANYTHING you read in terms of macros can only be a guideline and you need to find what your own unique genetics is the happiest chappy with.

Interesting to note that you didn´t build a lot of muscle from this. Massive carbs, massive protein, massive calories, enough fats, this is basically the diet recipe for muscle gains. Before you say that you are a hard gainer, are you sure your training is good enough? Are you training to absolute failure? How often do you change your routine? What is your rep range? I am asking because your body is obviously not responding well to the training you were doing. Have you tried something else in the past you thought was working well?

the hard gainer myth, I can't remember the last time I met a bb'er who told me he wasn't a hard gainer. I've met pros who told me they were hard gainers...if the genetic freaks are hard gainers what's that mean to the rest of us average joes? We're all hard gainers cause gaining muscle is hard, and slow... gaining and losing fat is easy, but adding muscle is all about hrs put in at the gym, hrs put in to diet, hours put into resting properly, and consistency in doing all of that nearly all of the time. If any of them are off, it takes that much longer so get the idea you're a hard gainer out of your head, there is no secret sadly...be honest with yourself, which of these things could you be doing better. If you can say that all of them are on point then keep it up and the gains will come, if one of more of them is off then that's why you're a hard gainer. I'd be curious to see your responses to pyroclasms questions as well, in your first post you mentioned your results for 5 weeks, and that it was your first gym session, after how long, how long have you consistently been working out prior to the infection?

Thanks for the replies I will try to answer all your questions.

First up I change my training program every 6 weeks by either changing the type of excercises or the order I do them, mixing different days, doing legs on say a Thursday instead of a Monday. or doing Cable crossover before decline bench etc. Rep range is 8-10 reps sometimes I would increase the weight each new set going heavier and keep it like that for 6 weeks. Other times I will keep weight constant but keep it heavy.

I have been training constantly for 5 years with only short brakes due to illness or travel. I realise my diet was not always up to scratch eating too much sugar, sweets and chocolates while working late. I have cut my sugar usage drasticaly in the past 3 months not using sugar in coffee or other food and not eating sweets and chocolates every other day. I only had one chocolate in the last 4 weeks. And no other sweets.

My energy levels is not always consistent and I find it dificult to maintain heavy workouts. Its getting better since I cut the sugar and most high GI starch. I stoped eating bread and potatoes for instance. I agree its to easy to say one is a hard gainer looking for a quick fix without doing the effort. I know genetics plays a big part, a friend of mine who trained with me for a year gained 8 kg of muscle mass and almost no fat eating a lot less and using not as heavy weights as me. He moved so I train alone at the moment. Having a training partner helped with staying motivated. I will post my exact program exercises weight and reps achieved during the week.

The way I have been training I stayed constant at arround 95kg with body fat hovering at 20%. My heaviest was 105kg with 23% body fat. I hope this answers your questions. I realised that I need to do things differenty If I want to get different results. Thats why I am asking for advice from people who seem to know a whole lot more on the subject than me.

Here is the program that I will be using from Monday.
Monday: Chest
Machine Bench Press, 1x15 4x8 reps
Cable Crossover, 1x15 4x8 reps
Peck Deck, 4x8 reps
Incline Dumbbell Press, 4x8 reps
20 min of cardio

Tuesday: Arms, Abs
Alternating Dumbell Curls, 1x15 4x8 reps
Hammer Curls, 1x15 4x8 reps
Standing Cable Curls, 4x8 reps
Tricep Pushdown,1x15 4x8 reps
One arm Overhead Rope Pull, 4x8 reps
Bench Dips, 4x8 reps

Planking 4 sets of 40 sec
Lying leg raises 4 x 20
Decline crunches 4 x 20
Hanging leg raises 4 x 20
20 min of cardio

Wednesday: Legs
Legg Press, 1x15 4x8 reps
Legg extensions, 4x8 reps
Lying leg curl, 4x8 reps
Seated Calve raises, 4x15 reps
Standing calve raises, 4x15 reps
20 min of cardio

Thursday: Shoulders,Abs
Standing Dumbell front raises, 1x12 4x10reps
Standing Dumbell side raises, 4x10 reps
Seated Dumbell press, 4x10 reps
Cable rope side pull, 4x10 reps

Planking 4 sets of 40 sec
Lying leg raises 4 x 20
Decline crunches 4 x 20
Hanging leg raises 4 x 20
20 min of cardio

Friday: Back
Chin pull ups, max reps capable x 4
Reverse close grip pullups, max reps capable x 4
Seated cable row, 4x8 reps
Standing Bar pushdown, 4x8 reps
20 min of cardio

Saturday:Abs, Cardio
Planking 4 sets of 40 sec
Lying leg raises 4 x 20
Decline crunches 4 x 20
Hanging leg raises 4 x 20
Walk for 40 min

Here is my final goal. The one I posted before is what I think I can achieve in about 3 months. This one is what I would hope to achieve in one year.

no squats or deadlifts?

When I change the program in 6 weeks I will do Squads, Deadlifts and Lunges

doutzen wrote: the hard gainer myth, I can't remember the last time I met a bb'er who told me he wasn't a hard gainer. I've met pros who told me they were hard gainers...if the genetic freaks are hard gainers what's that mean to the rest of us average joes? We're all hard gainers cause gaining muscle is hard, and slow... gaining and losing fat is easy, but adding muscle is all about hrs put in at the gym, hrs put in to diet, hours put into resting properly, and consistency in doing all of that nearly all of the time. If any of them are off, it takes that much longer so get the idea you're a hard gainer out of your head, there is no secret sadly...be honest with yourself, which of these things could you be doing better. If you can say that all of them are on point then keep it up and the gains will come, if one of more of them is off then that's why you're a hard gainer. I'd be curious to see your responses to pyroclasms questions as well, in your first post you mentioned your results for 5 weeks, and that it was your first gym session, after how long, how long have you consistently been working out prior to the infection?

I respectfully disagree boet ...I agree with u to a point but in short some train hard and grow while others train just as hard and diet as hard but grow less Gene dependant... all depends on your genes if they suit body building or not IMO.Otherwise I would be a monster by now :lol:

Al these guys looked like your goal when they started bru Try the beginners bulk in the sample cycles and 2 years and about 4 /5 cycles to reach your goal..goodluck

mack wrote: no squats or deadlifts?

This is a HUGE problem.

My leg workout this week went as follows:

Wednesday: Legs
Legg Press, 1x15(200Kg) 4x8 reps (240kg)
Legg extensions, 4x8 reps (90Kg)
Lying leg curl, 4x8 reps (47.5Kg)
Seated Calve raises, 4x15 reps (70Kg)
Standing calve raises, 4x15 reps (142.5 Kg)

Heart rate according to my Polar Monitor
Average 153 bpm Max 176 bpm

20 min of cardio
Average 160 bpm

Total Calories according to OwnCal on Polar using Height, Weight and Age: 1132 Calories. Total Time: 78 Minutes.

Not sure if I can increase intensity more than what I am currently doing. Can barely walk today. If I push my heart rate higher I start to see white spots and feel dizzy. This usually happens at around 190.

So after reading up on all the drug profiles and the sample cycles I would like to get some feedback. I am still using FFF and want to bring Body Fat down to 10-12% before starting a bulking Cycle.

Using the beginner bulk cycle as a basis I thought of building onto it to create something in between beginner and intermediate. I might be way off so please correct me if I am wrong. Will be using liver support from day 1 to 100. Advice on the use of an anti-androgen during cycle and its need at these dosages will be appreciated.

Day 1 - 25 Dianabol 40 mg per day.
Day 1 - 77 Testocyp 250 every 4 days (roughly 500mg per week)
Day 26 - 76 Proviron 40 mg per day. (using the Proviron as a moderately effective anti-estrogen and to maximise the effectiveness of the Testosterone.)

I considered using either Anavar at 40mg or Winstrol at 20mg for 25 days from day 76 as a bridge. This should also help to retain strength and help with a bit of fat loss after all the bulking. Please advice on bridge selection. Also considered starting FFF depending on BodyFat from day 76.

PCT
Day 106 - 112 Clomid 100mg per day
Day 113 - 131 HCG 500iu every other day.
Day 113 - 142 Nolvadex 20mg per day.

I'd bridge with winny or even tbol, 25 days really isn't long enough to run var.

Rhino wrote: I'd bridge with winny or even tbol, 25 days really isn't long enough to run var.

agreed

Ok seems Winny is the winner for the bridge. To minimise side effects I think it would be ok to swap the Dianabol with Turinabol at 40mg for 25 days also, correct?

Dbol front 40mg for 25 days Cyp twice a week at 1ml....bridge = 36 days ...winny at 40mg for 4/5weeks OR Anavar for 6/8 weeks at 60mg then pct the day after the last A tab...
Also consider using HCG in the bridge at 250iu twice a week ...

Much rather Anavar than Winstrol if you are scared of sides. You will need to start the Anavar before your actual briding period begins. As Oupa and Rhino are saying, you need at least 6 weeks on Anavar to get the full benefits from it.

Thanks for the input guys. I am more of a visual person so I made the following:



It shows the Cycle as discussed. I realise dbol is considered better to kick start the cycle but I am a bit concerned with its side effects and the water retention. From my research tbol should work well enough with less side effects and no water retention. There is quite a price difference between them, making dbol considerably more cost effective. The thing is I don't have the experience to compare the two at these dosages to make a fair comparison, some input regarding this would me appreciated.

If I missed something or got it wrong somewhere please correct.

My body fat is at 11.26% currently and I should be able to loose another couple kg by the end of the month.

Thanks for all the input thus far.

Here is an updated Graph I implemented Mikes suggestions and changed the tbol to only 25 days at 40mg, this reduces the cost a bit.

I presume with no more feedback all is in order?

The cycle is good but I just don't feel that it is optimal. I.e you can squeeze more from it while still having only mild side effects. What I have seen to be optimal is:
T-Bol 60mg ED 6 weeks
Test-En or Cyp 12 weeks @600mg per week, pin twice a week. Exact timing of injections not important.
Anavar @60mg ED for last 8 weeks up to pct
Proviron 40mg ED from day 1 up to pct. If cash is an issue drop this one, or only run it with Anavar.
HCG during cycle @500iu per week, for last 10 weeks up to PCT.
Then PCT 2, and if cash is an issue you can leave the HCG.
Arimidex on hand in case of gyno. Letrozole if you don't have Mandelas.
Liver support is a must! Just not milk thistle. Start Essentiale 6 weeks before cycle.
Diet spot on.

It's simple, logical and optimal. You have a 4 week window there from week 6 where you get to see exactly how you respond to the test. Few sides, massive gains.