Razor's proposed 2015 cycle

So guys, iv been pondering on the ideas for the cycle I want to do this year. I have researched all I can about all of the compounds to find which I would and will not be running ever. But I feel I can read as much as I want, the using, dose and sides you guys have experience with, from using these compound will be much more trust worthy than some random blog from kazakstan

So first the things I have experience with:
Cycle 1: Test Cyp/prop 12weeks @500mg/week
NO HCG, Clomid+nolva pct
Cycle 2: Test prop/cyp 12Weeks + Anavar6weeks. Winny + Proviron Bridge. HCG @5-13weeks 2x250iu per week. PCT

So my current stats:
27years
1.91m
87-88kgs
7-8% BF

So 3 months post pct, went for check ups ect, had bloods done to assess Hpta recovery and all is GOOD

So the other half is still heavily into trail running, half marathons and lately Crossfit. We try to train together every now and then, and I still enjoy MTB and 10km races with her. So what im getting at is, I want to put on size, but not to the point where it will be limiting my agility, or where the substance will be limiting on cardio activities. (Tren cpmes to mind :pinch: )

I Dont want a big drop or big hike in my BF levels, going any lower and I have found that it effects my energy levels effecting my daily routine. Im in no hurry, im 27, this is not a race. So I want to add lean mass this year. Possibly getting to 95kgs at 7-8% Bf by Dec.

So I was thinking along the lines of the following.

Weeks 1- 4 @ 375mg/week ; and 12-14 Test Prop @500mg/week
1 - 12 Test Cyp @ 500mg/week
( I was thinking maybe a test blend like supertest or sustanon, but not sure how stable blood levels are on while running them...?)

Then my reason for wanting to run a cycle is NPP.
I have 1 off day,and do about 10 training sessions a week, 6 lifting and 4 outdoors running/climbing cardio based sessions. My muscles take the beating and I feel NPP can assist with this while helping to add some mass.
NPP weeks 1-12 @ 500mg week..?
With NPP (not deca) is the waiting time to pct still 45days??

I want to add Primo injectable to this, have had trust worthy friends use this with excellent results.
But im not sure on dose along side the test and npp dose..?
Weeks 1 - 16 @ 500mg/week?? (Next to 500mg cyp/week?)
Can this be run with the bridge to week 16? Or stop at 14?

Was thinking about a kick start while the injectables take its weeks, but as most of these orals only add water im scared to do so. So the only one I could come up with was Turnabol..?
Weeks 1-4/6? @ 40mg/day?

Bridge will be the same as I loved the results last time round. Winny @50mg/day + Proviron @50mg/day
Weeks 12 (10..?) - 16

I Will add Hcg during cycle from weeks 4/5-15.
And then use Ovidrel with Pct3 from doctari?

I have Aromasin and letro on hand. Did not run AI on cycle last time round and had no problems with sides or gyno.
I can get dostinex and will if I choose to Run the 19nor.

So it would look more or less like this then,

Test Prop week 1-3 @ 375mg/w and 12-14 @500mg/week
Test Cyp week 1-12 @500mg/week
NPP weeks 1-12 @500 mg/week
Primo weeks 1-16 at 250-500mg/week
Turnabol weeks 1-4 @ 40mg/week
Winny weeks 12 (10) - 16 @ 50mg/day
Proviron weeks 10-16 @50mg/day
HCG Weeks 5 -15 @ 500iu/week

2Days (week 17) post last winny, Pct3 starts
(Will extend this if npp is also 45days waiting, and will do a proper day by day laid out plan from day 1 to date of last Nolva tab.)

I have all the support supps like liver twistle, b12 &complex etc covered.

Is this cycle overkill? To much..? Any suggestions? Advice or critique? Specifically on experience with compounds and dosages..?

Thanks guys. Hope your not as bored as me (off day).

I like the look of that cycle.

- I would run primo at 500mg a week if the funds allow. Stop it at week 14, you'll need two weeks off before starting PCT, similar to Test.
- NPP you need a week off of (not 45 days), so you can run that up until a week before you start your PCT if you wanted to or else you could stop it at 12 weeks as you've mentioned. Thats a good length of time to be on NPP.
- Tbol will be a good kickstart for your cycle, will add lean mass without having to worry about water.

My only question for the cycle is this- you've done Test, Anavar, Winny and Proviron before. You're adding three new compounds at the same time, if you start to get side effects I'm just worried that you wont know what you are getting them from. That said, the cycle looks good. 95kgs@7-8% is a very reasonable goal and with this cycle I don't see that being far fetched assuming your diet is on point.

If you were to drop a compound then I would steer away from Primo, its very expensive and is not necessarily going to add noticeable gains when you have the other compounds in there but if you want to use it - I don't see an issue

My big worry aswel man. Starting 3 new compounds that might just kick my ass. Hence the overkill question. I thought of dropping the kickstart, but not keen on being on cycle 3-4 weeks before you only feel its starting to kick in.

Have you done primo before? I know its hellishly expensive, and slow to start of with. But most people say its no mind blowing mass adding drug, but helps to hold on to new gains during and after pct.

If I dont add the primo to the mix, you think i should add another 2-3 weeks for npp? Or it that overkill and on npp for to long? How does the dosages from deca to npp differ?

My diet is 1000%.. I have become somewhat a master with my diet. Love cycling my carbs to keep me lean. But that said, I struggle to eat 4000+ clean cals a day to grow when not on cycle.

Razorblade88 wrote: My big worry aswel man. Starting 3 new compounds that might just kick my ass. Hence the overkill question. I thought of dropping the kickstart, but not keen on being on cycle 3-4 weeks before you only feel its starting to kick in.

Have you done primo before? I know its hellishly expensive, and slow to start of with. But most people say its no mind blowing mass adding drug, but helps to hold on to new gains during and after pct.

If I dont add the primo to the mix, you think i should add another 2-3 weeks for npp? Or it that overkill and on npp for to long? How does the dosages from deca to npp differ?

My diet is 1000%.. I have become somewhat a master with my diet. Love cycling my carbs to keep me lean. But that said, I struggle to eat 4000+ clean cals a day to grow when not on cycle.

Using Test prop at the beginning is quite a kickstart in itself. Adding Tbol will just improve the gains during that period, if not muscle gains, definitely strength gains which can only improve muscle gains in the long run.

I haven't done primo but a friend did a cycle of 1g Primo for 24 weeks (bought it in Istanbul) along with 500mg Test, he gained well (from what I saw) but he said that he noticed more on 500mg Masteron with the same dose of Test. Obviously this is different for everyone and a few people here rave about PGW's Primo. It's definitely not a mind-blowing mass drug but puts on a few pounds of lean, polished looking muscle but it really isn't anything special. I would save the money for more food TBH.

Running NPP all the way until a week before PCT is ideal, if you're gaining then there is no point in dropping it when the end result should be recovery after PCT, you'll be shut down regardless so just stay on it until the last possible moment I cant comment on the dosages from NPP to Deca, its a bit like comparing Tren Ace to Tren E, it will be up to you which you prefer but gains will certainly come sooner with the NPP and if Broscience is correct, the gains will be slightly dryer.

If youre struggling to hit 4000+ clean calories, add a few dirty ones. I'm not telling you to go all IIFYM but if you're behind on calories, chow some ice cream man, have some fun

Just skimmed through this and in a hurry, so forgive me if I have mistaken anything.

NPP waiting period to PCT is 16 days bud.
Absolutely agree with Hormonas to drop Primo. I think it's better suited to wealthy old men :pinch:.

At your Body fat masteron will do you good, leave you nice and hard.

Remember cabasser with the NPP bud.

@Hormonas shhhh dude, the ice cream thing is a secret!

Oh supertest you need to pin frequently.

But it's pip from hell. I wouldn't recommend it when mobility and agility are concerns.

From hell, I say!

Hormonas gave you some karma for taking the time to type out the advice and share your knowledge. Nice to have you here.

I appreciate it Mason Might, it's very good to be here

Agree with you on the Supertest - really is a nightmare with PIP and I found the same with the Axio Sustaplex. Needed to mix it with other injectables to make the pain more bearable.

OP, I would stick with Test C or Test E, your hormone levels will stay more stable and you'll be able to walk without a limp :lol:

I have no issues with either Supertest or Sus, no pips or even more pain than test e or prop and it works out far cheaper than trying to make blends of your own.
I tried a 18 weeks Prop/test e cycle last year..! I'm alive but should have chose a decent blend.

And as for the Caber Debat..! I don't think its a must to run with Nandralone but you should have it on hand. I'm currently running NPP and I'm not on Caber or Bromo and have no labido or other issues. As you no from my thread I've run into Gyno issues and was contemplating jumping on the Bromo but after bloods and Pumps advice I found out my prolactin/progresteron were well within normal ranges and Nolva is doing the trick.

My theory is put as little stress possible on yourself but be ready in case you need it. If you have estrogen in check you shouldn't need caber and if your in doubt do bloods it takes 24hrs quicker than any drug works.

Morning.

So @Rhino I 100% agree. I always try to use as little chemicals/supps and as low dosages as I possibly can to get my desired goal.
I have always had an AI on hand in cycle, in fact two. But as I have never had gyno or real issues with sides apart from Blood pressure, I dont use the AI unless I need it. Prolactin might be another story, so will get some caber/dostinex for peace of mind

@Hormonas, In the kickstart im looking for something with some good and rapid strength gains. Last cycle I did the Anavar and creatine route to start. Good increase in strenght over time but nothing mind blowing. I know dbols and A boms will probably have a more pronounced effect, but im realy not keen on the water bloat and weight fluctuations. Last two months I have increased strength alot with a powerlifting style of training incorporated, as I have never been the strongest at my size and have always been training for aesthetics. Hence the strength increase to assist in hypertrophy training with heavier weights. Any better options than turinabol maybe?

I can be a pin cushion , on my last cycle ended with a 6 weeks prop and winny depot EoD routine, even training legs on a pin day :silly: .. But would want to explore options of only pinning once or twice a week on a 18+week total cycle. So any more advice on test blend would be appreciated.

General consensus is to leave the Primo then. Maybe one day when I have reached my mass goals and is cutting down and maintaining my LBM ill give primo a go.

@MM bud you mentioned masteron, anymore info? Done some research on it, but always thought its more suited in a cutting cycle than mass cycle?
Could I add this with primo not in the picture anymore? MAST ethn? 400-500mg/week?

16days for NPP would mean I have to stop in week 16 with the test prop, run 14more days on the bridge compounds and wait out two day with no chemicals before I start Pct.

Thanks for the info guys. Thinking of sorting out my plans in a week or two and get the goodies to start beginning May somewhere.

Your diet will dictate the outcome of your cycle and Masteron can make a nice addition to it.

Razor my 2c on masteron added it in at the end of my cycle got 2 weeks left on it 100mg eod glad I did and will probably always end with it. Cleared up any sensitivity I had with my nipples has an anti eastrogen effect. Brought out the veins improved vascularity and find I can go a lot harder in gym overall good feeling on it.

Will work out cheaper to use the Enanthate ester throughout your cycle bud...

@Lobo, thanks I appreciate personal opinions on gear like yours. Did you use the prop? Seeing that you pinned EOD? Enth 2x weekly?
Would it be better to add it towards the end of cycle, or run it from week 1 - 14 woth prop and npp? I can get it in 200mg/ml Enth, so that be 1.5ml x2 week?

Would you still add Proviron when running Masetron? Or only after cessation of masteron when running winny for bridge?

Run the Enanthate alongside your test Enanthate.

It will bind to SHBG so IMO no real need for the Proviron.

Razor like mason says masteron and proviron are similar in what they do. A suggestion would be to run masteron the last 6 weeks you on test cyp generally better towards the end if u can only get ethanate then two shots a week with ur test 400mg per week some say they get better results on prop not sure why tho iv only used the prop.

Then put the proviron in after week 12 with the primo and winny u were going to use might want to look at going onto test prop for 3 weeks after cyp keeping in mind need 14 days off prop before starting pct can only benefit from it with the other stuff u will be on at the time 100 or 150mg eod if u have the cash to do it.

So I went to my friend last night, who is also my source. Spoke to him about the original cycle, and the ideas we discussed.
He agrees that although he thinks Primo is a great compound. He agrees that I can get away with better bulking chemicals on good dosages and it will still be cheaper than primo.

IN HIS OPINION guys, he said that at my bf masteron will work great, but not add much size as dry me out. He said seeing that its going on winter and im not planning on competing (ever). He would focus on growing this year and not so much about drying out for only my girl to see more veins (that she already hates and cringes at) under my long sleeve tops.
So he suggested I drop the masteron and use the cash and extra cash on HGH.
He said to keep the test and npp dose the same, and start with the prop and cyp, and after week 3 when I drop the prop, I must add the npp up, and stop it with the prop at the end again two weeks short of pct (into bridge with winny and proviron)
He says then I can kickstart with tbol and gain some strength and see if It has any sides coming on, then when al blood level are stable 3weeks in I introduce the 19nor and monitor the sides coming on then. again this is In his opinion. He also said I can only start npp after the tbol if Im scared of not knowing what is causing problems or sides..?

His dvise is that the HGG will help me grow while helping me with Doms with my training program. He said I can extend the hgh past my cycle through my pct and run for about 6months straight at 3iu day?

Any ideas info or crit on this?

Weeks 1- 26 hgh @ 3iu/day?
Week 1 - 3 ; 11 -14 test prop
Week 1 - 12 cyp
weeks 1 - 4 tbol
Weeks 3 - 14 npp
Weeks 10 - 16 winny & proviron
Weeks 17 pct start

if your going to go the HGH route make sure you can get good stuff plus you need to run it for a months before your cycle and then for your entire cycle at at least 5ius a day.

Why only start the NPP at week 4? I'd start it at week 1. I don't really get the point of running the prop and tbol as a kickstart id choose one or the other.
personally I don't use an oral kickstart I just double up on the cyp dose for the first week and the Npp kicks in quickly so adding prop/tbol and then leaving the best of all your chosen compound out for the first week doesn't make much sense to me.

The reason behind the thought was the new compound I dont have any experience with.
Have never done npp, or tbol. So starting them togther with test could cause sides. And then because of 19 nor and all I might not know whats causing the stress on my body. So thought of letting the oral do its thing and when its done, come in with the npp..

So you would dubble on the cyp dose, run npp and drop prop and run tbol? Or do cyp en prop and npp from week 1 and drop the oral?

How about dropping masteron and adding in hgh?

Id drop the Tbol and run the NPP from week 1, You can run the prop along with the cyp for the first 3 weeks. If your bulking leave the Mast until your cutting to get the real benefits out of the compound.

As for HGH how old are you? If your not over 30 I wouldn't bother and unless your rolling in cash and have enough to burn on Pharma grade the benefits arnt worth the cost IMO

NPP/test alone is a great bulking cycle as long as your diets in check. Despite running enough Letro to kill a charging bull I'm up 10kg in 7 weeks while Keeping my BF stable.
Then add the Winstrol in your bridge to harden you up.

Im 27. But Im a mental case when it comes to training, sessions is 2hours+ of super/giant and drop sets, and I have 6 lifting and 4 cardio style session a week. I know its to much, but its my real world therapy. My diet is not a diet but my lifestyle, amount of cals is all that ever change. When Im on cycle to bulk I drop the cardio. The training load is alot and everyday my muscle feels it. So hence the npp to grow and help with that. So thats why he suggested hgh. Have never been keen on it, but did phone him now. Cash is not the problem, and he can get pharma grade, BUT at that price for a 6 months cycle I could double my bulking and add a cutting cycle in and still get away cheaper.
So if your saying its not worth it, and the other guys agree I will not be tacking that route. Cost to reward ratio have much better options.

So far I think im of the tbol. Will kick and and end with prop.

I hate to say it but your friend/source is trying to take your money.

Primo and HGH are the priciest products at our disposal and I just don't think it's coincidence that this is what he is pushing...

IN MY OPINION?
Scumbag dealer.

Haha thank MM.. Understand where you are coming from. But he is a good and long term friend. I Did not discuss the primo, or original cycle with him before last night, after I came here. And he asked if I want to go big on this cycle (thinking of 5+ compound of which 1 was primo) and I said yes I saved up to do this bulk 1000%. He suggested Hgh then, not pushing anything. But thanks man.
Im just looking for quality cycle and gear. After this cycle Im doing 2016 clean. a Work project will keep me out of country to much. So want to bulk up good, and use my carb cycling diet to cut me down again.