1st Proper Cycle & Diet

Hi all,

great to have found a local forum and looking forward to some awesome advice and info and probably some flames too.

i have done some research and pick up some bro-science info but wanna get some input from the forum to hear if my planning and understanding is correct before i start.

anyway - looking for some feedback on my 1st proper cycle, i have messed around in the past but taking thing serious now as i have joined up with a online coach.

183cm
73.5kg
BF - never measured.

Macro totals required:

Protein: 286g
Carbs: 246g
Fat: 67g
Calorie total: 2731kcal


goal - something in the range of Zyzz, maybe even a bit more BF.
im a REAL skinny ectomorph, i started at 64kg earlier this year and currently hovering around 73kg's , but i think a maintainable weight would be around 85kg solid.

the advised cycle is 12-16 weeks consisting of:
Test E: 500mg per week (monday/thursday)
Deca 100 Fast : 3 times per week
Dbol : 40mg per day for 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off etc

Arimidex on hand for during cycle

PCT:
HCG - days 1-10 500iu everyday (although i read different amounts on various sites, so without consistent info i'm trusting my coach.
Nolva -days 7-21 take 40mg per day
days 21-35 take 20mg per


now i have been training for about 2yrs, semi uninformed, but earlier this year decided to take things serious and do it properly.

my MAJOR constraint is:
1. Food/Appetite - i have to really force some meals down the hatch, i just cant seem to get my body to get used to me wanting to eat consistantly

2. time - work can keep me EXTREMELY busy, as i work in the chemical industry whereby things need to get done right now....so if i'm flooded with work (which is atleast 3 out of the 4 weeks of every month) i have trouble hitting my mid morning meal and mid afternoon meals - i have invested in some mass gainer to have something on hand if i dont have time to go have a snack.

well guys, there you have my story and my theory so i'm looking forward to hear any feedback/criticism.

i'm not the MOST informed guy on the forum but i'm busy educating myself to understand the science behind it a bit more, so if you have advice or feedback could you perhaps stick to layman terms...if not i'll google that sh!t.

Hi and welcome. Great to see you like educating yourself.

We will answer all your questions once you have red through this. You should especially focus on the pct part.

If your not sure about something you red, your welcome to ask

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/articles

dankie Oupa.

contradicting info i have is the following, unless i'm not understanding this correctly:

PCT waiting period - pct page says 30 days after last injection, whereas my coach says pretty much right after my last injection i start

ek dink ek verstaan die HCG ook miskien effe mis, so ek probeer dit nog meer oplees en info kry.

If your coach is advising that, then you may not have the best coach when it comes steroid use.

What would you advise otherwise...

Are you referring to the PCT or course in general?

this part of the PCT article answers your question bud

"The timing is very important, because if you start too soon the PCT will not restore the HPTA axis to natural levels. This is due to the steroid compounds still being active in your body and thus continuing to apply negative feedback to the hypothalamus and pituitary glands"

i haven't personally used AAS but the PCT protocols on this site are tried and tested by very experienced steroids users, and you cant go wrong if you stick to them.

also have your BF measured correctly - it plays a big part when running a cycle

I'm also concerned the dose you have been advised on extremely powerful breast Cancer drug. Tamoxifen at 40mg, you can't just throw numbers around like that. PCT works by gradually reintroducing the body how to crease and increase testosterone levels naturally. PCT might for instance need to be 90 days of Tamoxifen at 20mg, it all depends how thorough you want to be 'want to be fertile, and looking to have children now'

my own research also indicates that PCT only starts around 30 or so days after taking the last TEST shot...

so question is...do i question my coach or do i follow PCT that this site and all other sources say?

Maybe it's best to let sleeping dog lie and go according to time frame on this site/forum

I'd advise to go with the time frame on this site.

OK so i'm doing reading and watching videos and i like the DYLAN GEMELLI youtube channel and would like your feedback on the below plan...

(now in hindsight my research was poor and should not just have followed the word of other people to put together my cycle/pct - hard lesson learned)

i believe my protection while on cycle is very bad, so please advise if my research is correct.

add the following protection while on cycle:
ARIMIDEXor preferably AROMASIN to keep estrogen under control
CABER to keep prolactin under control from the NPP

HCG to be taken the last 2 weeks of cycle

start PCT 36 days after last pin

Upgraded PCT:
follow no3 on www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/articles/9-post-cycle-therapy

Marcel83 wrote: OK so i'm doing reading and watching videos and i like the DYLAN GEMELLI youtube channel and would like your feedback on the below plan...

(now in hindsight my research was poor and should not just have followed the word of other people to put together my cycle/pct - hard lesson learned)

i believe my protection while on cycle is very bad, so please advise if my research is correct.

add the following protection while on cycle:
ARIMIDEXor preferably AROMASIN to keep estrogen under control
CABER to keep prolactin under control from the NPP

HCG to be taken the last 2 weeks of cycle

start PCT 36 days after last pin

Upgraded PCT:
follow no3 on www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/articles/9-post-cycle-therapy

hCG during cycle works well, or works perfectly in PCT 3, you can use an AI and an Caber if need be. Am I supposed to know who this Dylan person is, you keep referring to him.

Search him on utube, has a very.good channel.... best informative from what I have found sofar.

He is a bit harsh on people who dont study steroids back to.front before using it but very informative none the less.

But to some people's defence, and I guess me as well, not eeeeevery one who goes on a cycle wants to study it back to front, some people want advice to what will work and what to use when....

Like doing mods to your car, im not clued up on what software adjustments are made, what bigger intercooler and boost pipes does to the whole process...just give me a upgrade that will give me 20kw extra...

Probably going to get flamed for that comment and obviously I exaggerated a bit, when it comes to your body and long term health you definately need to do some research....but with all the bro science that is around its easy.to get cought up in the bull shit , I went on 2 shit cycles because I took advice from guys who seemed to know what they are doing cause they are in competition shape.

Marcel83 wrote: But to some people's defence, and I guess me as well, not eeeeevery one who goes on a cycle wants to study it back to front, some people want advice to what will work and what to use when....

Like doing mods to your car, im not clued up on what software adjustments are made, what bigger intercooler and boost pipes does to the whole process...just give me a upgrade that will give me 20kw extra...

Probably going to get flamed for that comment and obviously I exaggerated a bit, when it comes to your body and long term health you definately need to do some research....but with all the bro science that is around its easy.to get cought up in the bull shit , I went on 2 shit cycles because I took advice from guys who seemed to know what they are doing cause they are in competition shape.

Ok, so this is a bit of a thread revival - sorry.
Marcel, hopefully you are still lurking and I am not wasting my time by typing out this reply.

Firstly your bridge period - the period from your last injection until your PCT starts will differ depending on what substances you are running and how long the esters are. For example test prop will be out of your system a lot quicker than test cyp. Deca will take longer to leave your system compared to NPP.
The reason why we wait is for the levels of these chemicals to go back to a normal level which your body is happy with and at which point it will signal your body that it needs to kickstart your natural hormone production again, you then start with your PCT to assist in the kickstart process.

Should you start your PCT too soon while your testosterone levels are too high, or perhaps while you still have a high amount of deca running through your veins, then think of it as your body getting two signals which contradict one another. You have your PCT drugs telling your body to kickstart the natural hormone production, but then you have the feedback systems telling your body that there is no need for the natural hormones to start being produced as there are still very high levels of chemicals in your body.
This will lead to your PCT being a fail and a waste of time and will not assist you in recovering.

Secondly Dylan Gemelli gets paid to promote substances and advertise for certain forums and brands.
He has been doing so for quite some time and for various brands and forums etc.
I personally find his physique to be quite shocking considering his supposed knowledge on AAS and training, he is not big, he is not that lean and I feel as if it is achievable naturally without much effort. I remember back when he I use to watch some of his videos, he would do all these poses at the beginning of the video and yeah. I still wonder why he does them.
Actually here are two videos, I have seen people in my gym who are leaner and bigger:



Thirdly as you have said, there is soooo much bro science when it comes to body building. I am generalizing here a bit but people know jack shit really. From car salesman who cannot answer your technical questions, to IT guys who don't know the basics, to Dr, Specialists and street level drug dealers who don't know their products or how to properly diagnose their patients. You cannot blindly trust someone just because it is their job. Nobody is perfect, we are all humans and we all make mistakes too.

I know of people in the gym who have no clue how to run a proper cycle, I cringe when I hear what they do and what some of their PCT's consist of and I see how they lose soo much of their gains when they stop. People taking Winstrol for 6 months straight, using 6 bottles of Nolvadex for gyno and PCT, having no clue what prolactin is when running a cycle with deca and tren and having been told to do these things by people who compete *facepalm*

Just because someone look good in the gym, does not mean they know what they are doing. Everybody reacts to different chemicals differently and everyone has different genetics. Some people just look at weights and they start to grow where others struggle a bit. Some will recover better and quicker than other (I am referring to after running a cycle, where your natural hormone levels need to start up again).

I am generally one of those people who does a fuck ton of research before I do anything or make a purchase, I can safely say that this forum is one of the best sources I have found for AAS use and advice, which is quite strange as I often find local sources to be quite useless actually compared to international sources / forums.

Many people here have done cycles according to the articles and have made great gains, kept majority of their gains and made a great recovery. Myself included.

If you spend a bit more time researching and educating yourself about how steroids work and why things are done in a certain way you will realize why this forum is such a great source of knowledge and why we do things the way we do.

thanks for the reply and taking the time - appreciated!

do you have any advise/ criticism on my cycle or my PCT?

what i DONT have is aromasin or Caber/Dostinex to run while on cycle, my source's price seems astronomical. i DO have Arimidex for on cycle protection, but i'm a bit concerned as research tells me i really need something to help with prolactin control.

now again, some ppl say that Arimidex is enough?

in hindsight, now that i'm slightly more educated, i should have done this research BEFORE starting the cycle, i didnt know that AAS can be SUCH a huge life changer....but i'm on the wagon now, i havent done anything stupid dosage wise or something of the sort...

priority now is to take care of myself on cycle and then follow PCT properly and do bloodwork after PCT.

but again, any advice or constructive criticism will be appreciated

Marcel83 wrote: do you have any advise/ criticism on my cycle or my PCT?

what i DONT have is aromasin or Caber/Dostinex to run while on cycle, my source's price seems astronomical. i DO have Arimidex for on cycle protection, but i'm a bit concerned as research tells me i really need something to help with prolactin control.

now again, some ppl say that Arimidex is enough?

in hindsight, now that i'm slightly more educated, i should have done this research BEFORE starting the cycle, i didnt know that AAS can be SUCH a huge life changer....but i'm on the wagon now, i havent done anything stupid dosage wise or something of the sort...

priority now is to take care of myself on cycle and then follow PCT properly and do bloodwork after PCT.

but again, any advice or constructive criticism will be appreciated

First thing is I would only run Dbol for 4 weeks, after those 4 weeks the test and deca should be in your system and you should no longer have a need for the dbol.
Remember that orals are generally quite harsh on the liver and dbol will lead to lots of water retention, so best to drop it altogether after the 4 weeks.

Aromasin and Arimidex are both AI's (Aromatase Inhibitors) so either will be fine. I personally prefer Aromasin due to the lack of rebound gyno. It is always good to keep an AI on hand should you start having high estrogen issues - mainly gyno. Best is to not use it unless you actually need it, yet have it on hand as a safety precaution... Think of it like going hunting for venomous snakes, you would want to keep the antidote on you but ideally you'd prefer not to use it.

I have yet to run a Deca cycle and cannot remember all the info I have read, however if I recall properly you want to use Caber throughout the cycle to keep your prolactin levels down. I cannot remember when to start and the dosing protocol but I do know that Caber is not the cheapest unfortunately. If you wanted a cheap cycle you should have looked at doing a test only cycle - a bit late now though
At the very least, I would recommend at least keeping some Caber on hand should you end up with high prolactin levels and the "deca dick" which is due to the high prolactin levels.


As for PCT and such, I see there is no Clomid? I'd recommend you use what has been suggested here.
Also HCG is perfect to run during cycle, it is what I have done previously and am currently doing.

The Deca you are running, I assume it is normal deca and not NPP? In which case 45 days after your last shot of deca is when you should start your PCT.

Noted thx.

Ja the dbol im quitting nex week as hit the 4 week mark.

Trying to source caber as we speak.

And im running NPP.

PCT I'm running pct3 excep for hcg starting 2 weeks before my cycle ends