My First Thoughts ( cutting cycle)

Hi guys,

I love the forum and the advice shared, very informative for someone that has little or no knowledge.
I spent over a week looking through and got lost in some threads.

So here's the deal, I would like as much insight/constructive criticism as possible

Body Stats:

Male
Age 38
Weight 85kg
Height 1.68m
BF % = 8%(using calipers)
BMI = 33% ( my height or lack off, doesn't help)

Training :
Currently,I lift at least 5 x a week in the AM(60-70 min sessions) and cardio 3 to 4 x a week in the PM (40 - 60 min sessions)
Nutrition:
Pretty much on point but looking to get cleaner, i will ask about this in a different post if i need more help( i do have a weakness for ice cream though)

I am planning to start my very first cycle and i need to know if i'm going about this the right way.
Everything that I've researched has been from the 'inter webs' and youtube
i'm going this route as i'm finding it difficult to lose the stubborn fat around my abdomen and 'love handles' and this is more of a cutting cycle.

I plan on doing a 10 or 12 week cycle consisting of:

1. Test Cyp - 1st & 2nd week - 200mg/week (2 x 100mg injections/week)
3rd & 4th week - 300mg/week (2 x 150mg injections/week)
5th - 8th week - 500mg/week (2 x 250mg injections/week)
9th & 10thweek - 300mg/week (2 x 150mg injections/week)
11th& 12thweek - 200mg/week (2 x 100mg injections/week)

2. Anavar 40mg/day or EOD ( 50days in total as per pack size)
3. Arimidex 0.5mg/day( please give input on this as i've read that some guys have negative sides)

PCT (from the PCT page on this site)
1. Clomid first 7days (2 x 50mg/day)
2. Nolvadex Day 8-37 ( 20mg/day)
Please advise if HCG is necessary for such a basic cycle and such moderate to 'low' doses.

Supplements are standard - Whey Isolate, BCAA's, Black Coffee for a PRE
please let me know if there's something i need to add.

Vitamins - i'm on a decent multivitamin, i also take Omega 3's and a Vitamin C, i was thinking about adding Magnesium as well

Hopefully, this covers all area's....

Please let me know what you think, what to add, what to remove etc.


Thanks

Welcome to the forum BeRad!

BeRad wrote: i'm going this route as i'm finding it difficult to lose the stubborn fat around my abdomen and 'love handles' and this is more of a cutting cycle.

This is dependent on your diet and should be your first priority, no AAS cycle will make you lose fat. What is your calorie intake?

BeRad wrote: 1. Test Cyp - 1st & 2nd week - 200mg/week (2 x 100mg injections/week)
3rd & 4th week - 300mg/week (2 x 150mg injections/week)
5th - 8th week - 500mg/week (2 x 250mg injections/week)
9th & 10thweek - 300mg/week (2 x 150mg injections/week)
11th& 12thweek - 200mg/week (2 x 100mg injections/week)

There is no benefit to increasing and decreasing dosages, Test Cyp also only kicks in around week 5. Choose a set dosage and run with it right though. I would suggest 500mg Test Cyp per week (split shots).

Run an oral for 4-6 weeks at the start of the cycle. Var is fine (Expensive though) and I would suggest 50mg-80mg ED. Run it either at the start or end of your cycle.

Keep Adex on hand or run it from week 5 @ 0.5mg E3D.

Personal experience, I did not use HCG my first two cycles and recovery took very long. You decide.

Hi, and thank you very much for that info!

my calories are around the 1700 - 1900 region but i seemed to have plateau'd in terms of fat loss....or maybe i'm just being impatient

But thank you again...

Hi @Gym_Junkie

i know it comes down to personal decision

given all my stats....and with a stricter diet in place, would you say try the cycle or hold back ?
Hypothetically speaking ?

BeRad wrote: Hi @Gym_Junkie

i know it comes down to personal decision

given all my stats....and with a stricter diet in place, would you say try the cycle or hold back ?
Hypothetically speaking ?

I would try the cycle.

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Looking at your calorie intake I seems on the low side. I would up it a bit to 2200.

Gym Junkie covered the rest.

Go for it and enjoy the cycle.

Hi and thank you!

i'm so glad that i actually get some feedback....

I restrict the calories cos i thought that would aid with the fat burning,
with that being said, how would Intermittent Fasting work if on cycle?

Hi there

Can your body fat only be 8% with a 33%BMI? Anyway if you're looking to get rid of belly fat and love handles, your carb intake is too high or its incorrect timing or bad carbs. No amount of cutting cycles, steroids or gym will remove that, it's all about your diet. My advice would be look at the 100gram/day carb cure. Limit carbs to 100gm/day, the majority of which is taken in just after training and not late at night. I'm no dietician and I suggest you chat to some but that works very well for me, and is enough to keep me lean and allow me to build muscle as well.

As for your cycle, it looks ok. Don't taper your test start with the full cycle dose. Anything from 350mg to 500mg/week, which I consider high, but that's just me.
Don't take arimidex, or any AI unless you need it and keep nolvadex on hand for any sudden nipple flare ups.
I would run hcg and, if it was me, I would run it at 250iu twice a week from around week 8 through until just before the week I start the clomid. Test will probably suppress your natural production and HCG allows an easier recovery as it keeps the horses in the stable, so to speak.

Good luck.

Hey Mfezdro,

Thanks for the input.
Carbs have been restricted a bit more since a week ago and i have noticed the difference.
i'll keep at it...thanks!
your thoughts on Intermittent Fasting on this cycle?

What range would you say would be an ideal dose per week? ( if 350-500mg is high)
and split injections or one ?
i thought Nolvadex was for the PCT?

thank you again

Sure.

Stomach fat/love handles in men is directly related to insulin resistance, over indulgence in sugar and processed carbs and/or lower test to estrogen ratios. Or a combination of the above. Lowering carbs will help if you want to drop that. IF does work well, but it may be tough in the beginning, maybe look into that 100gm/day carb cure and try that first. If that works then when your losses start slowing down try IF. I find it tough to get the best results in gym when I'm on IF. Frankly on your first cycle, you should try maximise your muscle gain.

I can't really comment on the amount of test. I've never gone past 350mg personally and I see results, but nothing huge, like I said that's me and my specific goals. Lots of guys recommend 500mg/week as the starting bread and butter type cycle. It's really your call. The only real risk in my opinion is picking up estrogen sides and maybe some DHT sides like acne etc, but you may have no issue at all, which is why you should have an AI on hand but not run it unless necessary. Be good for more experienced guys to comment here.

Split your injections. Test cyp has a half life of around 10 days if I recall. I split my shots into 3 but I don't think you need to do that. Monday afternoon and Friday morning works fine. It just stabilises your levels as big peaks and troughs seem to trigger more aromatisation. That's probably speculative but I know it works for me and quite a few others.

Nolvadex is used or PCT as you specified. But it is a SERM, Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. It selectively blocks the estrogen receptor in different ways in different tissues. If you pick up nipple sensitivity or lumps you can immediately take Nolvadex for a few days to combat it and then start your AI. An AI is used as overall estrogen aromatisation control, Nolvadex is used in PCT recovery but can be used as an immediate action for gyno signs while you jump on an AI.

This is all info I've picked up or from my own experience. I'd also wait and hear what some of the big guns on the site advise

Enjoy

Mfezdro wrote: Sure.

Stomach fat/love handles in men is directly related to insulin resistance, over indulgence in sugar and processed carbs and/or lower test to estrogen ratios. Or a combination of the above. Lowering carbs will help if you want to drop that. IF does work well, but it may be tough in the beginning, maybe look into that 100gm/day carb cure and try that first. If that works then when your losses start slowing down try IF. I find it tough to get the best results in gym when I'm on IF. Frankly on your first cycle, you should try maximise your muscle gain.

I can't really comment on the amount of test. I've never gone past 350mg personally and I see results, but nothing huge, like I said that's me and my specific goals. Lots of guys recommend 500mg/week as the starting bread and butter type cycle. It's really your call. The only real risk in my opinion is picking up estrogen sides and maybe some DHT sides like acne etc, but you may have no issue at all, which is why you should have an AI on hand but not run it unless necessary. Be good for more experienced guys to comment here.

Split your injections. Test cyp has a half life of around 10 days if I recall. I split my shots into 3 but I don't think you need to do that. Monday afternoon and Friday morning works fine. It just stabilises your levels as big peaks and troughs seem to trigger more aromatisation. That's probably speculative but I know it works for me and quite a few others.

Nolvadex is used or PCT as you specified. But it is a SERM, Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. It selectively blocks the estrogen receptor in different ways in different tissues. If you pick up nipple sensitivity or lumps you can immediately take Nolvadex for a few days to combat it and then start your AI. An AI is used as overall estrogen aromatisation control, Nolvadex is used in PCT recovery but can be used as an immediate action for gyno signs while you jump on an AI.

This is all info I've picked up or from my own experience. I'd also wait and hear what some of the big guns on the site advise

Enjoy

Good info

with that training plan and calorie intake you should be shedding fat, something not adding up here, Also remember you cant build muscle if you don't fuel yourself correctly

I fucked around with low doses of test for long time and it helps but nothing huge, run 350 - 500MG a week I suggest.

Your calorie intake vs exercise and not losing fat baffles me though, what type of cardio are you doing?

Bud, I have a similar fat distribution issue. I only lose that waist fat when I drop below 5% BF. Unfortunately the luck of the genetics draw. One thing I am trying differently this year is to optimize sleep to see if this helps. Much of what I have read indicates that cortisol play a part in fat storage in that area. Basically for me to get into contest condition for men’s physique, sub 5% I have to diet hard, although I never drop below 2000cal until two weeks before, my stats are similar to yours but i am 44 - age plays a role. The last stubborn fat goes when I include clen, yohimbine and T3 into my fat loss stack otherwise I plateaue at around 6.5% and my condition in my abdominal area isn’t good enough. The rest of my body is peeled - striated Back, Legs, Shoulders Etc. no AAS’s really impact this in any way unfortunately, it simply helps,you hold muscle while dieting.

Hey Morrgear...


thank for the input...i was reading up on T3 and thyroid function as well...
but I think you right about the genetics bit so may all these add up and affecting the fat loss.
It's comforting to know that someone has more or less the same issue as me

Thank you!

Thank you again for the reply and detailed explanation!
I've read a bit on the 100gr/day carb cure...sounds doable.

I think you right about the over indulgence in sugars and carbs...since considering the cycle I have been stricter with the diet and I can see and feel changes, maybe i'm just being a normal guy and being impatient...and expecting results without committing 100%.
The correct nutrition is really so much harder than training!

Will let you know on the progress!

Peace

Hi,

i think you right about the "fueling'

Cardio is, cycling, stepper, elliptical machine....occasionally rowing or running.

Glad to hear reducing carbs is working. Cardio is ok, depends what you're doing, but remember, diet first, weight lifting second, cardio or HIIT third, gear last...
Let us know what you decided and how it goes.

Absolutely man!
and again, grateful for all the insights....

i decided to get my diet in order and postpone any thoughts of a cycle....FOR NOW!
So now i'm even more motivated to get the diet right.

PS. total carbs for today (including supper) calculated to 104gr, not too bad!

To add confusion into the mix: my fat loss stalls if I cut carbs, Emphasizing the individual nature of the process. I have tried an extreme Keto diet (testing blood ketones etc) and I couldn’t get lean. The bodybuilding version of Keto (low/no carb), high protein, moderate to low fat didn’t work for me either (this isn’t Keto as you don’t actually get into ketosis unless your protein is low and fat high). I have to keep carbs above 200g a day or my fat loss stalls. In any event the moral of the story is we are all individuals and you have to experiment what works for you. Sounds like lower carb does work for you, but I would keep at least one higher carb (low fat) day in in order to keep the thyroid function up. Thyroid downregulation is one serious side effect of Keto - which is why I think it didn’t work for me. I did bloods after a reasonable period of Keto and my thyroid function was right at the low end.

BeRad wrote:

2. Anavar 40mg/day or EOD ( 50days in total as per pack size)


Thanks

What a waist to do Anavar ED or EOD @ 40mg with only 50 tabs. You need to run Anavar for 8 weeks at least on that dose.

BeRad is this your first cycle?

If so, could I advise lowering your dosages - honestly, the results I get on 250mg/week are incredible. As time goes on and you get more experienced then you can notch up the dosages and add in orals and ancillaries.

Possibly look at (I think it's Oupa's?) thread on his experience with Male Hybrid Ripped - that's a dedicated moderate anabolic with fat cut mixture - and from what I can recall, it worked like a bomb.... Possibly better to use this, and tweak your calorie intake slightly for results rather than heading deep down the anabolic rabbit hole?

Just my 2c

Morrgear, sounds more like your keto was more accurately the Atkins diet? High protein, moderate fat and low/no carb? I have a theory that gluconeogenisis is enhanced with athletes - and I'm watching pubmed for someone to confirm or debunk it. It's possibly the reason fat loss stalls... Do you have an opinion on this?

Xpornstar wrote: Morrgear, sounds more like your keto was more accurately the Atkins diet? High protein, moderate fat and low/no carb? I have a theory that gluconeogenisis is enhanced with athletes - and I'm watching pubmed for someone to confirm or debunk it. It's possibly the reason fat loss stalls... Do you have an opinion on this?

I think the biggest problem is protein being the dominant calorie intake, fat should be, high amounts of protein will cause the liver to say hello gluconeogenesis. Maybe that is why your theory in athletes could be true.

Yea with those stats at 8%, unless you're doing keto you should not do more than 1 day a week with carbs that low. 2 max! Keep most of your carb intake around your workouts. I don't have the discipline now or genes to get under 8% without severe suffering, but I get to 10% with all abs showing and chest veins without dropping under 200g carbs. Nutrient timing makes a huge difference.

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My diet was proper keto, high fat, low/ no carb, moderate protein. Protein qty being the variable to keep me in ketosis, anything above 90g per day and I was kicked out of ketosis by the glucose conversion from gluconeogensis, presumably. Other things that messed with the ketone levels were diet drinks, and yet sweetener in coffee not, my guess was that one of the other ingredients would do it.