HCG & Preferred compound to add to current cycle for larger growth

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12 Jul 2023 23:10 #229249 by mastiff
Hi guys.

So currently running the following cycle:     *Goal is to put on tissue size and lowering body fat...BUT I have been thinking about adding a substance to the following for greater mass growth:

20 weeks of Test Cyp 250mg EW (pin bi-weekly) [UPA].
20 weeks of Mast Enan 200mg EW (pin bi-weekly) [UPA].
Week 1-4 (25 days) of Tbol 40mg ED [LP].
7 weeks of Var 40mg ED for the end of cycle and bridge to PCT [LP].

PCT:
50mg Clomid for 7 days, or possibly extending to 50mg for 14 days [LP].
20mg Nolva for 30 days [LP]. 

Quick STATS:
24yrs old, 83kg roughly 14-16% bf, 175cm, current calories = 2700 (aiming to lose fat until sufficiently lean ± 10-12% before staying on maintenance and aiming to recomp).


My questions are:
1) Is it worth adding another compound to the mix to induce respectably higher muscle growth eg. Deca for 14 weeks or adding in Primo or...?  

2) I have HCG but I'm unsure if I should run this during the entire length of my cycle or only from halfway ie. from week 10 @ 250iu twice per week?  

3) If I run HCG during cycle, should I run it during the PCT as well or is it either or?  

4) If I added Deca let's say 150mg for however long... does this affect my HCG protocol in some way considering it is more suppressive? 

5) If adding more masteron or primo is the way to go... should I be concerned about suppressing E2 to too low of a level with test only at 250mg?


Sorry about this if it seems stupid, I just want to make sure of these things.  Thought I'd try get some advice from the wealth of knowledge from the experienced guys on here. 

Appreciate any help in advance.
 

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13 Jul 2023 01:41 #229250 by mastiff
I know if I'm wanting to really add size then substances like masteron/primo are not it.. more cosmetic-enhancing etc.  

So then this points to deca/npp or equi (which I'm not sold on because of the crazy long ester and possible anxiety-inducing effect according to vigoroussteve).  
So presumably deca at 150mg for how long?  I guess this is my question .. deca @ what dose for how long?

Also, Empire had previously said that "longer, lower, slower" is always better and I'm fully onboard with this (within safe reason).... so in the same breath... can I extend my 7 week Var @40mg per day - would this yield better results?
And again I'm relying on memory here but Empire also mentioned previously that you shouldn't exceed your weight in mg and days... ie. 83kg is 83mg for 83 days.  So with this in mind, how long should I extend the var if at all?
 

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13 Jul 2023 10:53 #229251 by Empire
I only use test and primo and grow perfectly. Dont know where you came up with its not for massive growth.

Ifbb pro john jewitt swears by only test and masteron, but i guess thats not gonna give you massive growth....

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13 Jul 2023 12:12 #229252 by mastiff
Apologies, just trying to learn.  Was under the impression that deca is often preferred in this instance instead of raising more mast for synergy/different anabolic pathways.  Also thought that increasing mast/primo much higher than test could have potential to crush e2 more than is ideal.  Thanks for the advice though, always appreciated
 

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13 Jul 2023 17:25 #229253 by Empire
Just looking at your dosing..

I would not front load with an oral number 1.

I would set your peak dosing at betwen 10-12mg per kg.

I would have your starting dose at 5mg per kg. And every 2-3 weeks increase dosing untill you are at peak values at week 8 of 10-12mg per kg.

Testosterone would be set.

You can add more Testosterone if and only if low e2 symptoms present and confirmed with a blood test. I have run 400mg primo, and 315mg of anavar a day with a test dosing of 250mg and not had any low e2 symptoms.

Remember all DHT substances have the ability to lower e2.

I would ditch the tbol at the front of the course.

I would run orals at the back end of the course based on peak dosing.

Remember you want to add mass but aren't eating to add mass, so you are going to have slow going there. Rather use your courses to add as much lean tissue as possible in a surplus not maintaince, and then in your bridge period lower calories to new maintaince, add in clen and cardio and insulin to preserve as much as lean tissue, whilst dieting off the fat in that period.
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