Test E and Deca/Tbol

Good day everyone,
I have been training on and off for a while for the past 8 years and have been really consistent over the last 3 years.
I'm currently 29, 174cm, 75kg, 8-10%bf, currently eating 2500cal, and looking at jumping on a cycle. I've been on about 3 or 4 cycles, all fairly low doses and nothing 'too' hectic. The first cycle was test e at 500mg and dbol at 30mg for 12 weeks which was way too much for me, broke out in acne and experienced thinning of the hair. The second cycle consisted of test e at 300mg, and tbol at 30mg for 12 weeks, I tolerated this quite well, with minimal side effects. The third cycle was again test e and tbol at the same doses but I threw in EQ at 500mg/w for 16 weeks. EQ destroyed my hairline. The fourth cycle was a tbol-only cycle of 30mg for 6 weeks, I went through a cutting phase which helped me retain a lot of my muscle, and recovery was also pretty smooth with no hiccups. (PCT was run after all cycles, usually Clomid 50mg for 2 weeks and Nolva tapered from 40mg-20mg for 4 weeks).

I'm looking at starting my next cycle, I'm split between doing Test E 300mg/14 weeks and Tbol 30-40mg for 6 weeks, or Test E 200-300mg and Deca 200mg/14 weeks. PCT would consist of  2-3 weeks of clomid 40mg and nolvadex 40mg tapered down to 20mg for 4 weeks. I feel like through my cycles I have responded quite well, I also want to keep side effects really low hence the low doses.
I would like to do a sort of lean bulk, so eat 2500-3000cal, put on some lean size, stay relatively lean (goal would perhaps be 75-80kg lean), increase strength, and help with a bit of joint pain I have been experiencing, hence the deca. I'm currently doing a PPL split with big compound movements focusing on strength, e.g. squats, weighted pullups, OHP, incline bench 3-5 sets 5-8reps. The rest of the exercises range from 3-4 sets at 8-12 reps. The total volume of sets per muscle group for the week range from 12-18 sets per muscle group.  Keep in mind, I really enjoy the gym but pursue a lot of other hobbies such as surfing, rock climbing, hiking, running, calisthenics, etc.  I guess what I am asking is whether I should try Deca, or stick to what I know and do Test E and Tbol.
*I forgot to add that the last cycle I ran was 1 year ago.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Do the Test + Deca + Tbol, but rather buy the NPP first before you run the longer ester.

ok there is so much going on in this post. that needs to be broken down. Let's look at the prior course breakdown:  

number 1. First course: 700mg of testosterone and testosterone-derived substances (dbol and testosterone are from the same family) issues with hair, issues with acne, and probably issues with BP(which probably went unchecked)

Number 2. 510mg of testosterone and testosterone-derived substances. ( tbol is a testosterone family substance too as it does many of the same things as testosterone-derived substances do) well tolerated, probably hair shedding, but less noticeable.

number 3. 1250mg of testosterone and testosterone-derived substances ( molecularly equi is near identical to Dianabol and does do what test-derived compounds do)

now looking at your current body weight your first course from what I can assume was 10mg per kg, 2nd course was probably around 7mg per kg, 3rd course at your current body weight was 16mg per kg even at current bw, and all from testosterone derived substances, which will drive up estrogen, blood viscosity, blood pressure, water retention, etc. and obviously you have a high affinity to DHT conversion, fuck with your hairline.

so simple evaluation of this less is more and less testosterone or testosterone-derived substances, will lead to fewer issues in that regard. so simply setting your testosterone/test-derived substances at 3mg per kg would be a good start. so at 75kgs, you are at 225mg per week of total test or test derived substances, (0.9ml of test cyp for simple maths)

so then we can go as far as to stay 7mg per kg was well tolerated, and 10mg per was ok, so then let's start at 5mg per kg, and then work our way up over time to mitigate risks to 10mg per kg of body weight. 

so if we were starting at 5mg per kg, and even if you wanted to get to 80kgs, and started at 5mg per kg, you would start at 400mg per week, by week 8 get to 800mg per week, and stay at that for 8 weeks. (long esters only really getting going at about 4x the half life of the drug, so roughly 40days which is 7 weeks. so we want ample time at decent dose to get results)

so we start at 400mg per week you can start on 200mg of test and 200mg of NPP, yes its less than 3mg per kg of test, but that is the limit. why do we use NPP, as oupa stated? because 19nor substance can have certain effects on the body, 1 is the raising of progesterone, which can cause gyno, another is the raising of prolactin which can cause erectile dysfunction, so we use a substance that if those side effects happen, you drop it and it clears the system very quickly, CRISIS AVERTED.

so we starting at 200/200 if no issues occur,
at week 3 we go to 225 test, and 250 NPP,(475mg per week)
week 5 we go 225 test, 150 NPP and 165 deca. (540mg per week)
week 6 we switch to 225 test and 330mg deca( 550mg per week)
at week 8 we are at 550mg per week, but we still have +/- 250mg to play with, we know that you have issues with DHT conversion from test/test family substances, but we want to keep the lean hard look (#instafitbro) so we want something that isn't going to linger around too long, and cause too much hair shedding, but will also cover the water retention that comes from the testosterone and 19nor (deca)
so we use DHT which is active for a short period of time, and quick in and out so that at the end of the time you are off of it and it dissipates quickly, what is the most HAIR Friendly DHT substance?? Anavar.

so we add in 30mg of anavar daily for 8 weeks.

so your last 8 weeks on course would be
225mg test cyp, 330mg deca, and 30mg of Anavar daily (210mg per week) give you 765mg per week, which is pretty much bang on the 10mg per kg we need to be, however, you will have fewer side effects, better course design, and saved yourself from as much of those lovely locks falling out.

THEN we look at training. and nutrition. 
so we grow with 2 major things, milligrams, and calories. but you need stimulus to do so. 
12-18 working sets per muscle group per week. 8 muscle groups in the body (chest, shoulders, triceps, biceps, quads, hams, calves, back.) get you at 96 - 144 working sets per week. which for anyone who has trained at any decent level of intensity would WRECK YOU IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF WEEKS EVEN ON 15MG PER KG AND MONSTER CALORIES. so let's tone that down, to say starting at 80 sets per week, and maxing out at 110-130 sets per week.  you can get into your own programming of how that would work. when Miligrams are low, training would be low, and calories would be higher. and then there is rest and recovery and sleep and blah blah blah.

nutrition : 
you are 75kgs and eating 2500kcal a day :

gets you at 33kcal per kg at maintenance ( i have to assume, because there wasn't much given.)
you are wanting to gain muscle whilst getting leaner, which it not advised at all, so I would look at at least trying to GAIN 10kgs whilst using your course. MUSCLE GROWTH IS HARDER THAN DIETING. so grow the muscle then worry about fat loss (without going full retard). so 33kcal x 85kgs gets you too = 2805kcal daily MINIMUM 

you can work out macros etc.

you are looking for the holy grail of building muscle that needs kcal to do so, whilst losing body fat which is less kcal to do so, but you are hoping the rate of muscle growth will offset your calories and keep putting you in a deficit. which is possible when you first start out and can control every variable, which even then just doesn't work out unless you have Coleman genetics, even CBUM (Chris Bumstead classic Olympia title holder, for those not in the know with #instafamous Lingo) still gains a relative amount of body fat in the off-season as he knows muscle is hard to gain, and dieting is easier to do. 

But also you want to stay at 75kgs is going to be near impossible when you are using substances that increase water retention (19nors and test) and glycogen retention and growing new tissue. Plus you are going to be doing so much more activities that burn calories that in order to gain muscle you will need to drive up calorie consumption that you arent constantly in a deficit in order to "Lean Bulk/ Recomp."

but good luck, hope this all helps.




 

Any update on how this cycle went? 

Im in a similar position , a few months finished a test E cycle at 600mg no issues and anavar. Very similar stats. Looking to start a test Decca cycle for 12 weeks. Was thinking 600mg test and 400decc. But weeks 1-3 using NPP at 150-200-300.
then week 4 splitting the decc and NpP (200-200) before moving over to Decca until week 10. Have some ancillary on hand to tackle prolactin at 2 tabs a week. 

hey so im newbie in bodybuilding and i am newbie on this forum, now i will ask VERY VERY VERY stupid question. but maybe it makes sense.
so, fellas can i replace deca for example if i will  or deca cant be replaced? 
if my question feel extremly stupid you can just ignore it. go ahead..

So if you are very very new.

Start a new thread.

Put your diet up, your stats up, your training up include the weights your use for how many reps of each set, your age and sleep in hours, steps in a day and cardio. You may not need gear, you may need coaching.