Just registered and i thought id share my cycle

Week 1 - 6
Sust 250 on days 1, 3 and 6, repeating each week.
Deca 400 on days 1 and 6, repeating each week.

Week 1 - 4
Anadrol 50 ed

Week 5 - 7
500IU pregnyl 3 times a week

Week 8 - 10
Nolvadex. 40mg for first 10 days followed by 20 mg for the next 2 weeks.

Will be taking 1000IU of Vit E plus a good multi vit each day through out the cycle.


then repeat the cycle.

On average it looks fine. You should gain in the region of 15 pounds...
Suggestions:
-start using Arimidex at 0,5mg daily onwards from your third week. This cycle is definitely going to aromatize...

- your active, effective half life of Sustanon is 21 days and Deca 15 days. For this reason I will postpone the HCG to start with the Nolva in week 8, as you should have enough androgenic support for 2 weeks after the last Sust + Deca shot.

- if you are worried you might loose size during week 7-8, consider using Trenbolin acetate at 75mg every other day - that should harden up your gains and give more that adequate anabolic and androgenic support.

Anadrol at 50mg EOD is ??? a bit low, but that's your decision.

If you decide to use the Arimidex during the cycle, you will only need to use Nolva at 20mg per day PCT...

Add in 3 gr of Vit C per day...

Personally, I would opt for a higher dose of Pregnyl... See my other string I posted today...

But, I'm not that good at designing courses for people - just like to comment on them... Let's wait and see what other knowledgeables like Netro, Conan, Batty, Mike007, Kraz come up with.

Doc you're too modest, I think you could create fantastic cycles!
On this cycle because you are using Deca for 6 weeks I would opt for Clomid use PCT instead of Kessar in case of progesterone based sides.Kessar at 40mg/day after Deca@400mg for 6 weeks is looking for trouble.Anapolon is also known for progesterone based sides.Even if you are going to use higher dosages of pregnyl 1500iu-3000iu at the end of your cycle it is a good idea to use it in small doses(250-300iu's 2x week) from the begining of your cycle where Deca is concerned.The use of Proviron would also be a wise choice in this cycle,(particularly with Anapolon even if its just 20mg/day)

Doc, first, thanks for your comments!! appreciated!

Firstly, I have bought all my gear and am waiting to have it sent to me in namibia next week, so if there are other things i shld get, i shld know now.

Concerning the Arimidex, i belive there is an oral and injectable opinion. Which would you suggest and what dosages for this cycle if i am to use it from week 3 to week 10?

You then talked about postponing the HCG to start with the nolvadex in week 8.. Please explain here as Im not to sure what u mean? When do u recon the HCG and the nolva shld be started?? The reason i opted to start the HCG in week 5, is because after week four, my balls would have begun to shutdown and shrink.

Dosages on HCG are highly talked about and range from 500IU a week to 2000IU a week. What would you then suggest for this cycle?

More than 50mg a day of anadrol? I thought 100mg a day became abit risky. Mayb im wrong?? please do not hesitate to express your feelings on this aswell.

Much appreciated!!!!

I think it was miss read about your anapolan, 50 mg ed is fine, but good luck with 4 weeks of that. Your strength will increase so be carefull not to over train. I would also agree with the swop of clomid for kessar, better option. Proviron throw in is a good call as you will have water retention, start at 50mg p/d and not more than 100 mg per day. You can run that last 2 weeks of cycle and see how it goes. I would throw in some clen from week 9 and use for around 8 weeks as you will experience the most gains loss around week 6 - 8 after cycle and this will keep you anabolic and slodify the gains as well. Your diet will determine how good your gains are and 7 kgs is definately a good call on this cycle. As long as you keep your vitamin intake up you will have a good appetite. Let us know how it goes.

I am not so keen on the arimidex or proviron as i will not get the mass gains i would normally get without them.

As for the the clen, i am pretty lean and i really have no need to use it as my body fat is always very low.
Week 1 - 4
Anadrol 50 ed

Week 1 - 6
Sust 250 on days 1, 3 and 6, repeating each week.
Deca 400 on days 1 and 6, repeating each week.

Week 6 - 8
500IU Ovidrel 3 times a week - my doc prescribed me 3 boxes:)

Week 7 - 8
Tren 75mg eod

Week 8 - 10
Nolvadex. 40mg for first 10 days followed by 20 mg for the next 2 weeks.

Will be taking 1000IU of Vit E, 3mg of vit c, plus a good multi vit each day through out the cycle.

Will let you guys know how it goes. thanks for the advise!

If you take clen and the ketotifen it will give you an appetite and that makes it ideal for a mass cycle as you are opting for, it will definately keep you anabolic and have the benefit as I mentioned above, but the choice is yours and you know your body best. Nice mass cycle, but not for beginners at that test dose and the a-bomb duration either. Good call on the arimedex as you don't want to suppress the eostrogen too much when bulking. Proviron only has mild anti-eostrogenic effects and just there to help with bloat, but if you don't suffer from that then you are right on the money there.

I was talking to a well knowledged guy on arimidex and he swears by it, as it allows your body to use twice as much testosterone as it would normally use without it. This is because your body isnt converting half of your test to estrogen. If this is the case then i definitly wana use it through each one of my cycles.

I'm going to disagree with a couple of things here. Firstly, Arimidex will block about 50% of your receptor function and decrease the circulating estrogen by 80% when steady state doses are established. So, there will still be enough circulating estrogen for growth. Furthermore, this will allow higher testosterone doses - which will lead to better growth. Arimidex does also raise the natural testosterone levels. Gynae can only develope due to progesteronic effect IF there is an already exsisting increased circulating level of estrogen - which should not be due to Arimidex's effects. If there is any despite Arimidex at 0,5mg p day, just add on low dose Parlodel.

I do agree with the low dose HCG during your cycle, but will still opt for the higher dose during PCT.
I'm still waiting for any one to show me registered, double-blind medical studies that conclude regular, low dose HCG administration to be more superior to twice weekly higher HCG dosing. I WANT PUBLISHED STUDIES - not anecdotal bullshit !! We are talking PCT rehabilitation of your nuts here....

Explain to me why you feel clomid is a better choice here than Nolvadex. Let's talk about the difference in biochemistry and receptor effecacy - not about my friend says so, or I got better results with it.
If you are worried about the progesteronic effect of the Deca combined with the Anapolan, and starting the Nolva will activate gynae - remember that you are already taking Arimidex, gynae cannot start with progesteronic effects alone, only estrogen-driven, and remember Deca's circulating EFFECTIVE half life is only 15 days. If I had Arimidex on board with my Deca cycle, I will be very comfortable with it to commence the HCG and Nolvadex 15 days after my last Deca shot.

Ok, i have my arimidex. I have 30 tabs so therefore 60 days worth of tabs if split in half for 0.5mg per day. With that in mind, when shld i start the arimidex? surely frm day one as i am takin anadrol? but then it would run out just before i start my HCG and nolvadex.. is that fine?

Start it from the end of your second week onwards or here by your third week. Estrogen will only start being problematic when you start having effective, steady state levels of Test and Deca - this will be only from your end of 2'nd week onwards.

" This is why Nolva usually does not help much for gynae produced by progesteronic drugs like Deca. If you are prone to gynae while on Deca and likes, then Nolva should rather not be used, but Clomid should while you are on AAS cycle. "

This is your quote Doc and now you do a 180 degree turn and suddenly you say 'I WANT PUBLISHED STUDIES not anecdotal bullshit' so what are you doing, moderating the moderators you sound pretty angry aswell.I dont care what anyone says the advice given was sound and in the intrest of the user
You can knock myself and Netro in front of everyone here but are you really going to go against almost all of the most respected steroid HRT writers/authors around today and say they are all talking shit!The same goes for Pregnyl /HCG ,do you know how many books/articles I have that all say "using HCG post cycle is actually counterproductive as the increase in test production will continue to inhibit the hypothalamus and pituitary glands which will delay hormone recovery even further-HCG is best used during and at the end of a cycle ,before PCT starts!"-is that all shit too or do we all have to give published studies for everything we write ? Another thing as I have said earlier if there is a chance high dosage HCG will do permanent damage to the testes then why chance it if you can use lower dosages and recover. The reason I'm here is to help I dont make up 'bullshit' as I go along,lets rather discuss our points of view instead of getting angry and upset.

Conan, he wanted to take his Pregnyl from week 5-7 at a total of 1500IU's per week - this, while he is still on his Deca and Sustanon. No HCG further...
I have no problem with the use of HCG low dosing during a cycle, but as part of your PCT this must be higher dosing. ALL the studies I have about male hypogonadism, use higher doses at intervals of two to three times per week. I'm talking of doses as high as 3500IU at once, taken twice weekly for MINIMUM 6 months, some studies even as long as three years, before full testicular function was returned. Given, these were diseased individuals, or undescended testii cases. But still, these high doses were taken for such long periods. What I'm refering to, (and I think what you misunderstood in my comments) are these PCT regimes that incorporate doses of 500IU's daily or EOD. Nowhere in any of the medical studies I have, are such low doses or such dosing intervals used. When I said I wanted to see studies on this(real medical studies, preferably published in journals), I meant studies comparing the higher twice weekly dosing vs the lower, regular dosing regimes compared head-on for best effecacy. I really hoped some individuals, that incuding you, might have such studies for me to see, as I can find none - not even from the Pharmaceutical Companies making Pregnyl or Ovidrel. Believe me, I did ask them for such - they could find none either..

Why would there be a chance of High dose HCG doing permanent damage to your already suppressed testii? Have a look at the dosage regime used by Dr Michael Scally (refer to Llewellyn page69 and 70). This study is published on the internet for all to see. High dose, as high as initial dose of 5000IU's HCG on day one of PCT, followed by intervals of 2500IU's every 3-5 days, for 2-3 weeks, were used to restore testicular function after 600mg Test enanthate per week and some Deca for 16 week cycle.. Yes, it's true that you can desensitize the LH receptors and give negative feedback loop to your pituary after sudden output of testosterone production from your latent testii. I never argued that. Yes, in a certain sense that can be seen as counter productive. But which is more counter productive? Kickstarting your testii and have a bit of a "wobble" in the HPTA, OR UNDERDOSING YOUR HCG AND NEVER ACTUALLY REACTIVATING TESTICULAR FUNCTION at all after three weeks of 500IU's three times per week??
Why do we use the Nolva in PCT? Precisely to suppress the aromatisation of this testosterone surge after effective testicular stimulation and to increase natural testosterone levels. That's why I said use it only from week 8 onwards. Yes, I will never use Nolva with Deca - and I still stand by my reasons for it. I suggested he uses the nolva at least two weeks later or more AFTER his last Deca shot.

And, NO - I'm not angry or upset at all. And I do apologise if it sounded as if I'm knocking off guys - that's definitely not my intention. I, for once, would want a verdict on high HGC vs Low HGC dosing in PCT.

Again have a look at my last sentence in the read you responded to. I clearly say that, if I had Arimidex as part of my cycle while on the Deca, I will be comfortable with starting HCG and Nolva at least 15 days after my last Deca shot. Deca's has a circulating, effective(that meaning HPTA SUPPRESSIVE DOSE) OF AVERAGE 15 DAYS, DESPITE SOME OF ITS ACTIVE METABOLITES STILL IN URINE AND BLOOD DETECTABLE 9 MONTHS LATER. Thus, starting my PCT with Nolva and HCG 2 1/2 weeks after my last Deca shot, after I have adequately suppressed estrogen during Deca use with Arimidex, I feel the Nolva should not be a problem. Progesteronic effects can only cause/aggrevate gynae, if circulating estrogen has already started the problem. Just consider this : breast tissue in women is caused by estrogen. That breast tissue can only lactate if progesterone effects it to do so. If the young, pre-pubertal woman does not have primordia yet, she cannot produce milk from her nipples.

You also said that Anapolan is known for its progesterone side effects. How does this work ??? Anapolan is a DHT derivative. They structurally cannot aromatise and all DHT derivatives have ANTI-PROGESTERONIC effects. There are studies that have shown Anapolan to even reduce progesterone levels.
I think Anapolan has unfairly in the past been branded as the culprit for the gynae caused when used in combination with Deca and Testosterone. Structurally, it cannot aromatise and falls in the same group of DHT derivatives as Anavar, Winstrol, Proviron, Primobolan and Masteron - all which we use specifically for them not aromatising and all of them not having progesteronic side effects.

You are knocking me and then you make statements like Anapolan giving progesteronic side effects. All I asked was for some studies...

Another thing - I didn't ask to be a Moderator on this Board. Unfortuanetely, being a Moderator, means that when you make statements, you need to be able to substantiate them on request. That, preferably means litrature to back you up and studies to state from which you make such knowledgeable statements. For that reason, I always ask for studies.
But I think I will request Admin to remove me as a Moderator - then I can make statements such as "Anapolan being progestogenic" and then not have to worry about making such a statement....

Have you guys any idea how much info i got from the last couple of posts....good one!
Now, how much HCG is that again doc?

For arguments sake:
Weeks 1-12, NPP 350mg/week, TestP 500mg/week, Anavar 40mg/day
weeks 13-16 TestP 350/week

No HCG used on course.

What PCT/HCG protocol would you suggest here?

DOC, please explain to me why it is not a good idea on a cycle like deca and sust, to start your HCG after your last shot? that way in 2 weeks when nolvadex is to start, your balls will be back to size etc and ready for PCT.

I have changed my HCG dosage to 2500IU, 2500IU, 2500IU, 1250IU, 1250IU. With a 3 day break between each.

So much for your first post Doc did you have a change of heart?Trying to make a fool of me!@
Firstly lets get this anapolon problem out the way.I know what oxymethelone is and all about it,I know it is a DHT derivative and cannot aromatise, are you even trying to tell me it is not one of the most troublesome drugs around as far as sides are concerned and this not being a problem? The issue of progesterone activity vs estrogen activity(and speculation as to how and why) with anapolon is a very hotly debated topic.You telling me in front of everyone AGAIN that I'm making shit up- This forum is not about ego's arnt we trying to help people? if so ,warning people about possible sides is par for the course.Anapolon was and is a drug of choice in powerlifting and I have seen first hand the sides mostly gyno and lactating gyno along with chronic acne.(from 50-100mg/Day only)
What did I say in my other post -I dont make up shit! Do you think you caught me out ,or are you trying to mock me ??Maybe you need to read more!I agree that most DHT derived compounds can have anti progestrogenic properties If you are so confident about anapolon's ANTI PROGESTROGENIC properties why dont you try a course of high dosage Deca and use the anapolon as your anti progesterone and lets see what happens?Why not go read page 99 and 100 of anabolics 2006,I have not made this shit up.

Ok somebody has to step in here, might as well be me

Doc / Conan guys you are highly respected for the knowledge and advice you give. Both you guys have viewpoints that might lead to some hot debate but guys jeez nobody would like to lose you 2 over this little tiff? Think about what what you guys are saying to one another. Dont take offence just trying to calm the storm here.

Sjoe I almost missed the shitstorm and I didnt even start it. What you guys are debating is a very hotly discussed issue on many boards worldwide. Its reall world effect vs medical opinion. It is speculated and I use this word that using ur DHT deriv's will modelulate Proges gyno- thus Winstrol should block bitchies from Anapolyn which technicalyy cannot aromatise BUT it does guess the human body disagrees with popular science) Would i use Deca to modulate Naps- no friggen way- would i use Clomid to modulate Deca - no ways I hate both too much. FOr all the guys out there that still gets confussed by most of this. Simple rule if you cant understand the above e-mail you should not be using Anapolyn- if u use Anapolyn and you get boobies- use some Winny oral nothing else will really help. And guys remember what i always say opinions are like assholes everyone has one. And this would have been a blog not a forum if we all agreed on everything- imagine how boring.

Think we should agree to disagree here, Doc and Conans contributions so far have been solid and invaluable to this forum. We all have our opinions and give advice and it's up to the individual to follow what they feel best. One should follow the advice they feel is the best for them and if that is incorrect, well, then the choice was yours to make.

There will be more battles here, lets just hope they can be resolved in the best interest of all the members as we make the forum what it is, the members.

O ja forgot to say this but you guys are both very jacked up-havnt read decent posts like this since Roid Rod on the previous forum-only comes from years of experiance. Keep it up. Anybody know what happend to Rodney?

Apparently I need to go read more about steroids - So, I will disappear and go educate myself further on the subject. Was reading up on HCG use in PCT - just read through my 120'th study on it this week alone. Think I will take some time off and go read more..... Seems I don't know enough.

Is that you Doc?...naaa! cant be...must be your ego.Ok ok ok I'm going to go with MxT and Netro(thank you for your complimentary remarks about me and the Doc guys)...Doc ,White flag???

Yeah guys, please - my horses are in the hills - free for the first time and i'm confused about getting them back!
All the reading leading up to this(and i thought i had it licked) pointed at:

Starting last week of TestP/Npp 500 iu Pregnyl EOD for 3 weeks; 20mg Kessar/Day 3 weeks, 10mg/day for another week.

Conan changed that to:
This is what I would recommend for the rest of your cycle-
starting the second week in March start Pregnyl at 300iu's 2 x week(Mon+Thurs) and do that every week up until the last NNP shot 3 days after the last NNP shot take 750iu's and again after a futher 3 days another 750iu shot,wait 2 days and start PCT at 50mg Clomid for 21 days ,due to the fact that NNP is a lot shorter acting than the other nandrolones after 21 days Clomid go on to 10mg Kessar for 14 days thats it for PCT (blood work would be good now if possible to see were we stand)I would also advise Proviron @ 25mg/day starting 3 weeks before (or even earlier funds allowing )the end of the cycle (Wk 10+11+12)and running all the way through PCT till the Clomid ends(3rd Wk of PCT)If you can afford and get hold of HGH it is always a great weapon to add to your PCT stack(even at 2iu's/day)I have always found it to help maintain new found mass attained from the cycle as well as keeping the fat off .I hope you can understand what I have written

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/func,vi...it,10/limitstart,20/

Doc you then replied:
If you have a look at what I said in the other post, using the HCG during the last 2-3 weeks of your AAS cycle at the dosage which Conan said, helps in "priming" your testii for the full onslaught of PCT. I, personally, would start with the Kessar the moment I start with the full dose of HCG, as the later does produce quite a bit of estrogenic side effects , which can be countered by the Kessar. Also, Kessar at 20mg can(and this is from medical studies) increase your natural test levels by as much as 250-300%. For this reason too, I would start it with the stimulating effect from the HCG. But that's just what I would do personally. Also, it depends on how sensitive you are at estrogenic side effects...

I already have quite a bit of Kessar and i will follow this advice. The Pregnyl shortage and confusion in ovidrel dosage/supply hindered me up to now so i haven't started the HCG protocol advised by Conan(which also makes sense).
I will be stocked by end next week - leaving me another 2 months total to get them back.

At this stage i am settled and quite comfortable with Conan's advice.

Doc, i value your opinion and i would really like to hear what you have to say about my situation.

Thanks.... to everyone!!!