Letro gyno removal (log)

Yes I carried on the Letro during the HCG therapy.

And the only reason why HCG causes gyno is due to testosterone being produced by the testes and in essence there will be a large amount of aromatization taking place.

But you right I would have thought 900mg of test would be worse and maybe it was an hence not out of the system enough by the time the start of the HCG.

Again this is just theory and I have no relative proof to this so it cannot be taken as fact what so ever.

00pump wrote:

Yes I carried on the Letro during the HCG therapy.

And the only reason why HCG causes gyno is due to testosterone being produced by the testes and in essence there will be a large amount of aromatization taking place.

But you right I would have thought 900mg of test would be worse and maybe it was an hence not out of the system enough by the time the start of the HCG.

Again this is just theory and I have no relative proof to this so it cannot be taken as fact what so ever.

What I thought as well.

Perhaps no proof, but if it's happened to one person it's bound to happen to another. Something to bear in mind and am sure plenty of guys who run HCG don't consider running an anti E with it.
I'll be hitting the anti e's when I run the hcg on next cycle, whether it overlaps with test or not.

With the HCG or straight after Yohimbe?

All right so Mr Squirrel has done me a huge favor and sent me some really ugly Parlodel that i will be using once they arrive. I will post up success with it and how it makes me feel and how it has helped with my gyno, etc.

I will be running it with 2mg letro pd.

I will run that for 3 weeks if no change ill re-add Nolva and have a coctail of products to try reverse it.. If this does not work surgery is the only answer... PS: if everyone can donate a couple hundred rand for my op would be most appreciative, looking for close on 20k in total

eish bud... good luck with the parlo

done it before its the first few days that is a killer... its so severe i can't even explain, throwing up, explosions in your head, and the list goes on

Hulkie wrote:

With the HCG or straight after Yohimbe?

With the hcg and then nolva after hcg in case of rebound from the letro, and as part of pct.

good idea

Ok thanks ...will keep it in mind when run the HCG

I have a question for you guys - what are we missing with regards to gyno? I did several cycles without having any problems with gyno. Didn't even use anti-e's with those cycles (just kept some at hand) and then suddenly on a cycle no different than before, the gyno started. It sounds like Pump had a similar experience... Also, why after several months of being off cycle does gyno suddenly occur - BB_guy mentioned the same happening to him.

Any ideas? Do we cause cumulative damage/imbalance to our endocrine system by doing repeated cycles? Why the late onset gyno - is it because our endocrine systems are still imbalanced months after a cycle?? (I thought it's supposed to get more balanced/recover over time). What other factors are playing a role? Clearly it's not as simple as just estrogen and prolactin. (A study I read found an association between gyno and increased SHBG). If only estrogen and prolactin were involved, our drugs would be more effective.

I think if we can identify all the root causes of gyno and more clearly understand how steroid usage disrupts our endocrine system, we'll be a lot closer to an effective remedy for gyno (especially resistant types of gyno like Pump and I are experiencing).

I'm not sure.

Maybe it's something to do with instability in the hormones-like a lot of guys are fine on cycle, but start pct and have acne outbreaks. Their dht levels must be lower because they have less test, but are getting acne flareups because of imbalance in hormone levels.

I'm big on keeping blood levels as stable as possible to avoid sides.

Just speculating though, logic would say you are most at risk during your cycle.

00pump wrote:

done it before its the first few days that is a killer... its so severe i can't even explain, throwing up, explosions in your head, and the list goes on

Hey Pump, you said earlier you had your prolactin levels tested and the letro was doing nothing to suppress the prolactin. Were your prolactin levels high and think this may be the cause of the gyno?

read somwehere on this site, i think, that hcg gyno can be the worst and proviron was said to be the only thing to help with hcg gyno.
thats why i made a mental note to get proviron.

Proviron is oldschool and can work but the price you pay for the dose decent enough to treat gyno is not worth it with the price of Letro or Adex or even a SERM.

Hi guys

Update, DJ squirrel has been so kind as to sponsor me with 2 X Parlodel that I have started again as of yesterday.

Side effects: extreme nausea, dizzynes, some close on blackouts and just a an ugly feeling inside.

Side effects problem related to low blood pressure, reading taken before Parlodel 138 / 74 - 1 hour later 117 over 55 ... yes I suffer from hypertension so 138 is somewhat high in some peoples books for me its about as best I can get with a safe lower reading of 74. Even with regards to this your body becomes accustomed to what ever you throw at it, so for me I feel 'normal' on my reading so dropping to 117 over 55 I think had allot to play with the side effects.

I read somewhere that Parlodel has a life span of 12 hours, not 100% sure, don't feel like looking it up right now so if this is the case I will take half a tab 3 times a day. Morning on awake / lunchtime and an hour before bed.

Thanks

Good luck with the Parlodel. Those side effects sound hardcore.
To much for me anyway.

Also Pump , are you using UG or Pharm grade AI ???
There is a big difference IMO . . .

I'm using LP AI... Supposed to be very good.

Its so starnge to hear this that people using letro are still getting gyno through cycle right now this week i actually changed my adex protocol to EOD 0.5 instead ED to see if it will keep the water and estrogen low on 800 mgs of test. Right now i have pains all over the show. Back joints shoulders i think my estrogen lvls are very very low from just 0.5 adex ED. Letro is supposed to be much stronger.

well i feel it, but i still get gyno on 2.5mg a day...

maybe LP Letro is very under dosed? As you said how can I get gyno on 2.5mg a day....

I was just thinking Pump ,if the LP letro doesnt work and you end up going for surgery (many 1000's of $) Why not try and get hold of some pharm grade adex and run that at a high dose and see if that makes a difference ??? Would be very interesting to compare results.

BB_guy wrote:

I was just thinking Pump ,if the LP letro doesnt work and you end up going for surgery (many 1000's of $) Why not try and get hold of some pharm grade adex and run that at a high dose and see if that makes a difference ??? Would be very interesting to compare results.

Problem is pump already has gyno and im not sure if adex will help then but still its a very good suggestion to try mind you pharma grade adex is pricey but not as pricey as a OP

pump maybe its progestreone gyno from using kessar and 19nors?

dj anything is possible however I used no 19nors on my last cycle that was after my op... it was test and eq...

but maybe I do have something unbalanced that's causing it... *shrugs* i'm actually so over trying to analyze what it is... my body fat is down at around 8% so its not fat tissue that is causing it... really tried everything now, going to run the Parlodel + Letro what i'm hoping is going to do the trick and I will never touch test again, only eq, winnie, gh and masteron.

Right guys, the gyno is def not getting worse. I have been very out of breath lately not sure if that is a result of the bromo or the letro.

what I have been thinking and not sure if i am brave enough, but my girlfriends plastic surgeon said that he can 'lipo' out the rest of the tissue that is there under local (7k) or 13k if I do the op... anyone think they could be brave enough to have a local op like this? he said you looking at around 30 minutes for him to remove the tissue and then 'sculpt' the breast to prevent it from sinking in, etc...

#$@!*(#%@(*!%@@%#(*!*%@#*!@#% its $!@#($#!@($!#@(@$ scary?? but if I go under and ask if I can wear a blind fold and have music playing with my mp3 player? recon this is an option?

anyone keen to do this op with me if they say it wont be so bad? hehehe

1/2 price! Go for it. I normally watch when a surgeon cuts me anyway.
I was awake for my vasectome, but was not allowed to watch. Just felt what they were doing(without pain) and saw smoke rising for the burn.

You will feel the work done, but it wont hurt(alot).