Next basic cycle

Hey guys,

whats cooking?

This is my current cycle im starting end of March.

Week 1-2 Test prop 100mg EOD
Week 1-10 Super Test 2ml/pw (monday + thursday shot)
Week 11-12 Test Prop 100mg EOD

PCT
week 13-14 HCG 500iu E4D (would be shooting HCG 2 days after my last pin of prop)
week 15-18 Nolva @ 40/20/20/20

Current stats is
28 years
177cm
82kg
12% BF

Looking at this Basic test cycle just to bulk. Changed my dieet to eat lots and lots of good clean Carbs, fats and protiens. at least 4000-5000 calories.
Training program is in order ( thanks to my Personal Training certification, thanks ISSA) and 2x per week cardio
Looking to bulk with this cycle and then after my time on=time off starting the exact same cycle for cutting.... but changing then to less calories and more cardio, say 4-5x per week cardio.
and also looking to add Winstrol to get lean

peace

ummm buddy to be honest your plan is going to make u gain a shed load of fat.... your lean mass is about 72kgs, eating 4000-5000 calories is far to high, i would say 3400 maximum until you pick up good muscle mass!

personally i would do 1ml super test and 1ml test prop twice a week for 10 weeks,4 weeks of winstrol and proviron at the end,and then pct would be
7days clomid,followed by 30days kessar at 20mg a day and 500iu of HCG EOD when u start the kessar... starting nolva 5 weeks after your last shot of suepr test is too long to wait, remember with that dose of super test u are only waiting for 200mg of cyp to clear the system so u can start pct 2-4weeks after your cycle...

i would stick to doing cardio every training day when you are trying to bulk,sounds silly but it helps to stimulate the metabolism.

DJ wrote: ummm buddy to be honest your plan is going to make u gain a shed load of fat.... your lean mass is about 72kgs, eating 4000-5000 calories is far to high, i would say 3400 maximum until you pick up good muscle mass!

personally i would do 1ml super test and 1ml test prop twice a week for 10 weeks,4 weeks of winstrol and proviron at the end,and then pct would be
7days clomid,followed by 30days kessar at 20mg a day and 500iu of HCG EOD when u start the kessar... starting nolva 5 weeks after your last shot of suepr test is too long to wait, remember with that dose of super test u are only waiting for 200mg of cyp to clear the system so u can start pct 2-4weeks after your cycle...

i would stick to doing cardio every training day when you are trying to bulk,sounds silly but it helps to stimulate the metabolism.

Sound advise DJ thanks,

Any reason for the low dose of ST with Test prop 2x a week?

ST got a mix of Enantate and Cypionate and Prop, but at only 1ml its at very lose dosages... and with the short half life of Test Prop, it would be out of my system before i shoot the next Prop with ST?

And with bulking, I know the idea is you must eat alot, but it must be cood clean food, thus how can 4000cals be dangerous as I would do everyday training cardio?

The Test Prop EOD after the ST is to slowly taper off the higher dose of ST and as oppose to the short life of Test Prop, be quick out the system before starting PCT.
I still believe to take HCG before Nolva and take it 2 weeks before starting a 4 week Nolva.

I do appreciate any comments so far DJ...

Bud 4000 calories is still 4000 regardless of whether their "clean" or not. If you're getting 1000 calories over maintainance you're gonna pick up a bit of fat regardless of whether their their "clean" or not

And agree with DJ you have to wait 4 weeks from your last ST shot to let the long esters clear, winstrol and proviron would be best to use in that 4 weeks unless you can afford 4 extra weeks worth of prop

I don't agree with that statement that calories are calories!

Clean calories add allot more substance and the protein content is usually higher than that of crappy food.

So you're saying if I eat 4 Cinnabons a day I'll grow the same as with 4 well structures, chicken, rice and veg meals?

@Vega I hear what you're saying but I stand by statement. I'm not saying that the quality of the calories wont have an impact on your physique, I'm simply saying (as DJ would say) that its all about calories in vs calories out. IF you eat more than your body will expand you WILL put on fat regardless of the quality of calories. 4000 "clean" calories is a SHITLOAD of food my friend

Deadgoat wrote: @Vega I hear what you're saying but I stand by statement. I'm not saying that the quality of the calories wont have an impact on your physique, I'm simply saying (as DJ would say) that its all about calories in vs calories out. IF you eat more than your body will expand you WILL put on fat regardless of the quality of calories. 4000 "clean" calories is a SHITLOAD of food my friend

That is very try bud...

I just worked out my daily calorie intake from my current dieet and im getting in round about 2500 cals from Carbs, protein and healthy fats....

i just need to up my % of those until i get 3500cals like DJ suggested.

vega unfortunantly calories are still calories so if u are only needing 3000 calories and u add in 1000 more calories from protein,its still 1000calories over maintaince,it will still make u put on fat...protein will convert to glucose through glucogenisis and fat will be stored.... i suggest starting 3100calories and increase calories slowly along the way as in 200calories every 2 weeks.if u start picking up to much fat then cut back on the calories....rather than jumping into 5000calories.

super test on its own has a bite,u are taking super test for the leaner type of gains,adding in test prop will cut the pain and give u leaner gains from the 840mg of test u will be injecting a week.

DJ wrote: vega unfortunantly calories are still calories so if u are only needing 3000 calories and u add in 1000 more calories from protein,its still 1000calories over maintaince,it will still make u put on fat...protein will convert to glucose through glucogenisis and fat will be stored.... i suggest starting 3100calories and increase calories slowly along the way as in 200calories every 2 weeks.if u start picking up to much fat then cut back on the calories....rather than jumping into 5000calories.

super test on its own has a bite,u are taking super test for the leaner type of gains,adding in test prop will cut the pain and give u leaner gains from the 840mg of test u will be injecting a week.

Never will u hear or read that prop will be used to cut a substance to help lessen pain. Only PGW! And it's tru

DJ wrote:
super test on its own has a bite,u are taking super test for the leaner type of gains,adding in test prop will cut the pain and give u leaner gains from the 840mg of test u will be injecting a week.

so what you are suggesting is that it would be better to cut out my "kickstart" of test Prop to my cycle and add the Test prop @ 100mg/ml to each of my 320mg/ml of SuperTest twice a week?

how would that then bebefit from using it only in the first two week EOD @ 100mg/ml fir the first 2weeks and then 640mg of ST for the rest of the 10weeks?

i would still kick start the cycle with an oral such as dbol... i like using more short esters over long esters personally,i just think that using prop and super test twice a week is a good way of cutting injection pain and still increasing the amount of testosterone taken weekly,more short esters, i know prop has a 48hour half life but using it in conjuction with the supertest will mean 140mg of test prop is injected twice a week,and the middle length esters will also help blood concentrations being stable...just my opinion...i honestly think this 2 week front load of test prop is a load of shit,2 weeks isnt long enough,4-6weeks yes but 2 weeks no...

DJ wrote: i honestly think this 2 week front load of test prop is a load of shit,2 weeks isnt long enough,4-6weeks yes but 2 weeks no...

he's using ST so the short esters will kick in about 2-3 weeks into his cycle so there's no need to run the frontload longer than 2 weeks, or am I missing something? Plus you wont get the water retention you'll usually get with dbol

yes i know i still dont think 80mg of prop a week is enough deadgoat,you might be "feeling it" but i dont think that its enough to give u decent gains in the first 4 weeks...also doing a front load for 2 weeks is like driving at 200km an hour for 2 km and then driving at 80km for the rest of the distance,rather keep things constant through out the cycle......DBOL does cause water retention but there are other benefits to using orals than just a kick start of a cycle,increase and in igf and gh levels from the orals being broken down through the liver is just for starters,dopamine levels also rise so can aid a bit in the terms of feeling good in the first part of the cycle...choice is up to you.

80mg a week? Thought he meant 100mg EOD which would be a good kickstart 80mg is waaaaay too low

I'm really starting to find TBol allot better than Dianabol... I have used it at 80mg a day and the results where great.

@ DJ - will it still sting alot if you inject 1/2 ml prop instead of the full 1 ml?

I personally dont find the Test Combo a problem to inject.

Deadgoat wrote: 80mg a week? Thought he meant 100mg EOD which would be a good kickstart 80mg is waaaaay too low

look at super test break down,40mg of prop per ml,taken twice a week = 80mg,add in 200mg of prop split up and u get 280mg a week....

00pump wrote: I'm really starting to find TBol allot better than Dianabol... I have used it at 80mg a day and the results where great.

Mmm, a lot milder, much less sides, would be my preferred choice as well. I bloat like a whale on Dbol.
At 80mg pd, did you front load with it? How long do you run it for Pump?

problem is the cost of Tbol vs Dbol is nearly double...if u u think about it u can use 40-60mg dbol and some aromasin for the water bloat at the same cos as using 80mg dbol

DJ wrote: problem is the cost of Tbol vs Dbol is nearly double...if u u think about it u can use 40-60mg dbol and some aromasin for the water bloat at the same cos as using 80mg dbol

Ja, I suppose you're right DJ and it's a lot more androgenic. So it depends what you are looking for I suppose.
My understanding of Tbol is that it's more similar to Anavar in lot of respects than Dbol. I wonder how effective it would be to front load with Tbol though? Perhaps Pump could advise here?
I only ever used Dbol on my first cycle, I never had an AI on hand, and I bloated like that big fish in Free Willy. Was my fault of course, but it did kinda put me off the drug.

I wouldn't run the tbol at 80mg, more 40 or 60.. I was just experimenting

This is great info.... thanks Guys.

@DJ
I'm going to try what you suggested. 840mg of test a week sounds much nicer than the 640mg of test a week.
I will keep you guys updated on my progress.

That is only 14 times the amount of testosterone a healthy male produces, it does sound welcoming doesn't it

Hey Guys,

Ive started my Cycle on the 4th of April and would like to Report Excelent Gains so far.

I started on 81kg and currently sitting on 87kg. thats 6kg in 2weeks. I know most will be water but truth be told, i feel and still look lean.

Diet has been optimized to take in 3400Cals (like DJ suggested), and swithced over to a mass gaining program.

all in all good gains so far.