Healing Broken Bones

  • Oupiel
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02 Feb 2009 19:54 #9219 by Oupiel
Healing Broken Bones was created by Oupiel
Can anabolics speed up healing of broken bones?

I know Nandrolone has an anti-inflamatory effect and estrogen increases bone density in HRT for women.

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  • Inja
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02 Feb 2009 21:26 #9221 by Inja
Replied by Inja on topic Healing Broken Bones
Estrogen is indeed important for bone density, that is why to much letro can cause some serious problems.
However anabolics can be dangerous because one is tempted to push harder during physio thinking the break is strengthening and then over stress the healing tissue.
I don't think its a safe option.

Sorry if I offend you
Its just my point of view

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  • Doctari
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03 Feb 2009 23:10 #9246 by Doctari
Replied by Doctari on topic Healing Broken Bones
You guys are over-generalizing effects. Nandrolone does not have an anti-inflammatory effect. It does give joint pain relieve, but with a total different mechanism. Estrogen increase bone density in women, but it in large amounts aposes the effect of testosterone, which is the hormone that increases bone density in men. AAS in large doses has been know to put a lot of stress on your Calcium stores(needed for muscle hypertrophy) and will rather demineralize bone. Why do you think we should supplement with extra calcium when on AAS's?? At least 1gr a day...

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  • jo1
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03 Feb 2009 23:36 #9250 by jo1
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WOW i juz learn something very intresting thankx doc!!

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  • Inja
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04 Feb 2009 18:00 #9268 by Inja
Replied by Inja on topic Healing Broken Bones
Doctari wrote:

You guys are over-generalizing effects. Nandrolone does not have an anti-inflammatory effect. It does give joint pain relieve, but with a total different mechanism. Estrogen increase bone density in women, but it in large amounts aposes the effect of testosterone, which is the hormone that increases bone density in men. AAS in large doses has been know to put a lot of stress on your Calcium stores(needed for muscle hypertrophy) and will rather demineralize bone. Why do you think we should supplement with extra calcium when on AAS's?? At least 1gr a day...


Just to clarify?
If one removed estrogen from the male body and kept calcium intake high there would still be loss in bone density?
I assumed there is still an amount of estrogen that is needed in the system alongside test to maintain bone density...

Sorry if I offend you
Its just my point of view

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  • Oupiel
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04 Feb 2009 20:36 #9273 by Oupiel
Replied by Oupiel on topic Healing Broken Bones
A different view on Nadorlone & DHT derivatives. This guys reasons seem reasonable, however, i don't have the medical / pharma knowledge to dispute. (File Removed)

All this aside, what is the best way to promote bone healing, AAS or other?

@ Inja, I take your point on over cooking it.

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  • Doctari
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05 Feb 2009 19:54 #9310 by Doctari
Replied by Doctari on topic Healing Broken Bones
Don't know who this guy is or where he gets his info from what medical books. Some stuff is correct, but I have a feeling is not knowing much of what he is talking about - how and since when is Deca a progestin? It has progesteronic effects, but does not classify it as a progestin. Just a couple of sentences down, he says Deca is a androgen. Now how can an androgen also be a progestin???
Then he says it is an anti-inflammatory drug - it is not classified as that - nowhere, or else you would have been able to buy it OTC. It might have cell-mediated anti-inflammatory effect, but that does not make it an anti-inflammatory. Be careful of how you read what...

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  • Oupiel
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05 Feb 2009 20:08 #9311 by Oupiel
Replied by Oupiel on topic Healing Broken Bones
points taken.

Re. your earlier post 1000mg calcium / day. what is a good calcium supplement, Caltrate plus?

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05 Feb 2009 20:10 #9312 by Doctari
Replied by Doctari on topic Healing Broken Bones
Cheapest good product I use, is Calcium-Hexal 500mg....

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  • jo1
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05 Feb 2009 21:18 #9315 by jo1
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Doctari wrote:

Cheapest good product I use, is Calcium-Hexal 500mg....


doc what do u think about coral calcuim?

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  • Oupiel
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06 Feb 2009 16:52 #9340 by Oupiel
Replied by Oupiel on topic Healing Broken Bones
Steroids for Healing
by Cy Willson

Q: Any evidence at all that 'roids will help heal tendon or ligament injuries? How about making breaks heal faster?

A: With tendon injuries, androgens would provide little benefit and would probably make matters worse if the person is still trying to perform some physical activities. The only benefit would perhaps be in terms of an anti-inflammatory effect, but in mice they’ve found that androgens seem to directly affect tendons in a negative manner.

In regard to ligaments, however, there may be some benefit, again due to androgens' general anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressive effects, reducing the levels of certain markers for inflammation and displaying an antagonistic effect on pro-inflammatory cytokines.

As TC recently pointed out in his Atomic Dog column, inflammation may be a large contributor to cardiovascular disease, and this is why androgens are now being given a much closer look as a possible form of treatment of certain forms of heart disease. It’s been shown that hypogonadal men are at an increased risk for coronary artery disease, but this isn’t a green light for those wanting to start using a gram per week for the rest of their lives. Instead, I’m simply saying it’s better to be well into the physiological range as opposed to the low or hypogonadal range.

Going back to ligaments, I want to instead suggest that people begin using fish oil. That’s right, fish oil has been shown to have the same exact benefits as androgens in terms of anti-inflammatory and anti-cytokine effects. In fact, omega-3 fatty acids might improve the healing of tendons. It’s interesting to note that fish oil and androgens have many of the same effects: decreasing the levels of certain inflammatory markers, improvements in those with arthritis, etc.

The reason I suggest using fish oil is that there aren’t really any safety issues with long-term use and we obviously can’t say the same for androgens. Along those same lines, I don’t mind if a person is using fish oil all of the time, but when a person begins using androgens to heal an injury, as well as when they're healed, where does it stop? Pretty soon you’re trying to convince yourself you need androgens to prevent yourself from getting more injuries, and pretty soon after you’ve rationalized enough, you’re "on" year round!

I know most people won’t do this, but my point is that if there’s a safe alternative such as fish oil, it should be used as opposed to androgens. Remember, our community has reached a general consensus that although occasional and judicious use of androgens is okay, excessive use for prolonged periods of time is not. Androgens should be used as sparingly as possible, as an aid, not a crutch.

As far as bones that are broken, yes, androgens will likely help in that regard. Those that aromatize would be preferable to those that don’t. Still, I want to make one final point. All too often I get mail from guys wanting to use androgens to speed up healing with various injuries. Regardless of whether they help or not, people need to realize that rest is part of the healing process. Although certain compounds may prove beneficial to healing, it doesn’t replace the fact that a substantial amount of rest is needed. In all likelihood, the recovery time may not be shortened to a very significant extent.

There are no miracle pills in this regard. If you have an injury to the tendons, ligaments or really any injury in general, I suggest using fish oil instead of androgens. (3-11)

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