Turinabol/Testcyp/Var cycle

Infinity wrote:

I forgot to add:

I'm 1.96m
So tall and skinny, built like a praying mantis
 

so then why are you on a cut? The goal would be to gain as much muscle as possible and the body fat will come off later. Personally I will wait for your response to MA before I carry on with my advice.

Hi MA & Empire

So I want to get to about 85ish Kg with about 15% fat I would say. I guess long term would be near the 90kg mark with around 15% or less fat where I can just maintain.

For the 1st Cycle I did a Cut before I started my mass phase, just to get as lean as possible and build from there. I went from 88kg down to 76kg in 12 weeks.

Then started the Cycle. I ended up at just below 90kg, but I had absolutely no definition and it looked as if I've never seen the inside of a gym.

I didn't do a maintenance phase because I wanted the fat off as soon as possible. I then jumped straight into a Cut, which I think wasn't very smart.
The cut was quite aggressive and in about 9 weeks I dropped down to 80Kg. But then I looked super skinny again, as If I didn't gain any muscle.

So my motivation was a bit low and I just sort of kept my diet in check, but not really strict, and I went up to 86Kg.

That's when I decided to do a cut again (As Mentioned in the first post) to shed some fat, maintain for a few weeks, and then start with a bulk.

I've been in this cycle for the last few years where I cut, bulk, cut bulk, take a long break, then cut bulk again. This time I worked in the Maintenance phase.

But It just feels that every time I do a mass phase I just get fat, but skinny fat if that makes sense. And I'm 100% on my diet, weigh everything to the mg. Add enough calories to add 0.25 - 0.5 % of my body mass per week.
And when I cut, the end result seems like I've barely added any muscle.

Hope this all makes sense?

I'd like to see a break down of your training, exercises done, sets done, weights used for how many reps.

At this stage, 85kgs on your frame is going to look small, i would honestly try and put on as much muscle as possible over the next 2 years, if you are strict on your diet your body fat accrual would be minimal.

I would look at going on a course for 16 weeks. Because of your tall frame a 19nor would be a good addition. 3mg of Testosterone, and 3mg of deca per kg would be a good place for 16 weeks. Start calories at probably 35kcal per kg for the first 4 weeks and then look at going up.

Weight will go up faster with a cycle like that due to the 19nor. You could look at adding probably a good 10kgs on a cycle like that.

You need to pack on some serious mass on your that frame bro. Even 90kg at that height is going to look like you not close to a gym goer 76 must make you look like a triathlete..

Hi @Empire

I've typed a mini book and then it somehow didn't submit..

In Short:

I'm using the Renaissance Periodization Male Physique Template (Full Body 5 day)

Below are the Exercises:

Day 1:Chest Upper
Incline Chest - Incline Medium Grip Bench Press
Chest Isolation - Flat Dumbbell Flye
Horizontal Chest - Flat Dumbbell Bench Press
Horizontal Pull - 1-Arm Dumbbell Row
Rear or Side Delts - Cable Facepull

Day 2: Quads Focused Legs
Quads - High Bar Squat
Quads - Front Squat
Hamstrings Isolation - Lying Leg Curl
Calves - Calves on Calf Machine

Day 3: Back Upper
Vertical Pull - Narrow Grip Pulldown
Vertical Pull - Normal Grip Pulldown
Horizontal Pull - Row Machine
Horizontal Chest - Flat Dumbbell Bench Press
Rear or Side Delts - Cable Upright Row

Day 4: Glute/Ham Focused Legs
Glutes - Sumo Squat
Glutes - Deadlift
Hamstrings Hip Hinge - 45 Degree Back Raise
Quads - Hack Squat
Calves - Calves on Calf Machine

Day 5: Shoulders/Arms Upper
Biceps - Dummbell Twist Curl
Triceps - Cable Rope Pushdown
Front Delts - Seated Barbell Shoulder Press
Traps - Dumbbell Shrug
Vertical Pull - Underhand Pulldown
Incline Chest - Incline Dumbbell Press

It Starts with 3 Sets per exercise - You rate each exercise when done and that then adds sets per week

3 Meso Cycles:
Meso 1 : Basic Hypertrophy - 6 - 20 Reps
Meso 2 : Metabolite Focus -  10 - 30 Reps (Supersets Included)
Meso 3 : Resensitzation -      3 - 12 Reps

All the above starts with 3 RIR and then go to 2 RIR and ends with 1 RIR
13 Weeks
Meso 1: 4 Weeks - Week 5 deload
Meso 2: 4 Weeks - Week 5 deload
Meso 3: 2 Weeks - Week 3 Deload

I started the 4 Day full body Template about 4 weeks ago, it basically works on the same principle, it's just more exercises per day, more sets and the sessions are longer.

When I did my first Cycle I started with the below weights, got stronger to the end of the Program, but I lost a lot of strength after doing the aggressive Cut.

At the end of Meso 1
Incline Bench - 55Kg
Flat Dumbbell - 22Kg
1 Arm row      - 30 Kg
Squat            - 90Kg
Deadlift          - 95Kg

Etc Etc

@Empire, does the above make sense or was I just Rambling?

 

Incline Bench - 55Kg
Flat Dumbbell - 22Kg
1 Arm row - 30 Kg
Squat - 90Kg
Deadlift - 95Kg

Honestly with numbers like this, your main focus should be getting stronger and bigger before worrying about body fat being an issue.

Your main focus should be growing as much muscle mass as possible, when you get to a certain point recomp will happen as the amount of muscle you accrue will mean you are burning through calories super quickly and the body will start to need more energy from fat too. This is as long as you keep diet in check I must add.

Thanks, That does make sense.

So based on this, what would you suggest? Still the Test and Deca?

Just to be 100% sure, would you be able to lay out exactly what I must get, amounts, the duration, PCT etc please.

I don't want to do a second cycle and not do it properly.

Does the Training Program look fine?

Sorry for all the questions. And thanks for your time and input, I really do appreciate it.

Empire wrote:

I would look at going on a course for 16 weeks. Because of your tall frame a 19nor would be a good addition. 3mg of Testosterone, and 3mg of deca per kg would be a good place for 16 weeks. Start calories at probably 35kcal per kg for the first 4 weeks and then look at going up.

I gave you dosing here and duration.

Pct 3 woul be perfect, starting 6 weeks after last injection, you could run anavar in that 6 weeks.

Great stuff..

Does this look right?

16 Weeks
Testo C 250 - 300mg Weekly
Deca 300 - 300mg Weekly

Do I up the above dosages as my weight increases?

Week 17 - Week 22
Anavar - 40mg per Day?

6 Weeks after last injection - PCT3

Yes it would be right if your weight was 100kgs. But it's not, you roughly 80kgs, so I would go 250 cyp(1ml upa cyp 250) and 250mg deca( 0.75ml deca 330 from upa)

No you wont need to increase dosing. And yes 40mg of anavar will be fine..

Thanks a lot Empire

I'll keep you posted on my progress, whether you want to know or not

I always like hearing feedback, so it's not a problem.

Afternoon Empire..

Hope you're well.

I'm on the 11th week of this cycle, gained about 5kg so far.

Since about week 5 I've been feeling really fatigued. I thought it might have been because my calories were to low, but as it went up, I still didn't have a lot of energy.

The best way I can explain it is lack of energy or drained, is this normal?

How has your sleep been?
What are your calories?
What is your blood pressure looking like?
How much cardio have you been doing?

Basically need to figure out if you are drilling yourself into a hole and if you need to back Off for a week interms of training and cardio.

Sleep has been fine, getting in at least 8 hours.

Calories
Workout day - 3255
Non workout day - 2790

I'm going to check my blood pressure today.

I don't do cardio at the moment, just about 5-10min on the assault Bike before I start training.

My training program is 21 weeks long but has Deload weeks.
1st Meso - 5 weeks train & 6th week deload
2nd Meso - 5 weeks Train and 6th week deload as well. (I'm currently on week 5, will deload next week.
3rd Meso - 4 weeks train, 5th week deload
4th Meso - 3 weeks train, 4th week deload.

Just went to check my Blood pressure. It's normal, no problem there.

What is normal? Exact reading would be a good indicator..

Just run your course back to me again from week 1 till this point and where have you titrated dose up and all compounds being used.

Blood pressure – 120/80

Start weight 78 Kg (31 October 2022)
Current weight 85 Kg (12 Jan 2023)

250 Test cyp (1ml upa cyp 250) per week
250mg deca( 0.75ml deca 330 from upa) per week
(I haven’t upped the dosage since I started)

Supplement (NAC)

Train 4 Days per week (Mon, Tues, Thursday, Saturday - No Cardio)

Calories
Week 1 – Training Days – 2185
Non Training - 2100

Week 2 – Training Days – 2450
- Non Training -2255

Week 3 - week 4 - Training Days – 2720
- Non Training – 2255

Week 5 – Training Days – 2905
- Non Training – 1485

Week 6 (Deload Week) – 2440

Week 7 – Week 8 – Training Days – 2635
- Non Training – 2440

Week 9 – Week 10 - Training Days – 3070
- Non Training – 2650

Week 11 (Current week) – Training Days – 3255
- Non Training – 2790

Week 12 will be another Deload week

The whole cycle will be 16 weeks.

Week 17 - Week 22
Anavar - 40mg per Day

6 Weeks after last injection - PCT3

Afternoon Empire

I'll be finishing my 3rd Cycle (As per Below) by 3 April, then I will be staring with PCT 3.

16 Weeks
250 cyp(1ml upa cyp 250) and 250mg deca( 0.75ml deca 330 from upa)
6 Weeks after last injection - PCT3 (40mg Anavar per day during the 6 weeks)

Because I'm quite skinny and Tall, you said I should focus more on gaining weight in the next 2 years or so. At the moment I'm 90kg so would probably be around 91kg by the end of March.

Saying that, how long must I "take off" before going on another Cycle?
And what would you suggest for a 4th cycle, to obviously gain more weight!?

Thanks
 

more importantly than just gear, how many calories are you eating a day?

you can go 8 weeks off after pct.

Workout days
4120 calories
2280 carbs
760 Protein
1080 Fat

Non workout days
3925 Calories
2040 Carbs
760 Protein
1125 fat

That is a crapload of calories for 90Kg. Your body can only gain so much muscle by upping calories. Above a certain point it's all going to be fat. All good if you are fine with that...

Just realise it is much harder to keep gains made on cycle if you start eating at a caloric deficit post cycle because you decide you want to lose a bit of fat and get a bit leaner. Your body will shed a lot of muscle along with fat. Combining having low androgen levels along with being in a catabolic state on low calories means increased muscle loss.

Hi Muscleaddict

Thanks for the advice. I've been on that amount of calories for the last 3 weeks, gained no more than about 0.4 - 0.8g per week, this week so far my weight stayed on 90.4.

Does that mean I must stay in a calorie surplus after my cycle (when starting my PCT and 8 weeks off gear after that) or must I be on maintenance calories?

It all depends on what your goals are. if you just want to get as big as possible then awesome, keep eating the way you have been.

I'm just saying the ratio of muscle:fat gains could be better with fewer calories and save you the problem of not being able to lose fat without losing a lot of muscle.

When you go off cycle and your androgens are low, it is close to impossible to lose much fat without losing a lot more muscle, due the highly catabolic state your body is in post cycle. Caloric defiicit = catabolic. Caloric surplus-anabolic.

So yes, stay at maintenance calories, or even better to stay slightly above. I've heard people say they get leaner during PCT. They don't. They look leaner, but they are losing glycogen weight and a lot of water.