6-8 Week Test Prop First Cycle - Quick Critique

Hey guys,

Cycle History:

I have done a 2 week Tbol only cycle before (doesn't really count as a cycle i guess) gained 2 kg, loved the pumps and the additional strength whilst on it. This was about 2 years ago.

Stats:
Male
26
1.71m
4 years lifting
70kg
12-15% BF visible veins and Abs, bit of love around the back.

Diet:
Following IF at the moment on a maintenance of 2200 calories. I eat a smallish lunch then smash a full meal with a carb/protein/creatine shake after gym. I know my diet can be improved upon and while on cycle i will need to add in either 1 large meal or another 2 small meals. I will also be adding caseine.

Goal: Gain as much LEAN muscle mass as possible in 8 weeks. This is a pure vanity cycle :blush: :blush: I have a vacation coming up, lots of beach visits.

Cycle:
6-8 weeks Test Prop either 100 or 150 EOD (need advice on dosage here please)
.5 arimidex eod

PCT:
4 weeks 100/50/25/25

Other meds i am taking:

Finasteride ed 5mg.

Questions:
I have read some suggestions to include HCG from about week 4.
I have also heard that proviron may be better than arimidex(has some positive effects with test) however the larger consensus seems to be to go with arimidex.
I felt amazing on Tbol, i'm thinking of frontloading the cycle with 60mg of Tbol ED for the first 2 weeks.
Has anyone had any experience with Androxon? I have heard good things about it being used as a form of TRT.


Suggestions welcome!

Thanks

Proton wrote: Hey guys,

Cycle History:

I have done a 2 week Tbol only cycle before (doesn't really count as a cycle i guess) gained 2 kg, loved the pumps and the additional strength whilst on it. This was about 2 years ago.

Stats:
Male
26
1.71m
4 years lifting
70kg
12-15% BF visible veins and Abs, bit of love around the back.

Diet:
Following IF at the moment on a maintenance of 2200 calories. I eat a smallish lunch then smash a full meal with a carb/protein/creatine shake after gym. I know my diet can be improved upon and while on cycle i will need to add in either 1 large meal or another 2 small meals. I will also be adding caseine.

2200 Seems low for maintenance cals, how did you get to that figure?

Goal: Gain as much LEAN muscle mass as possible in 8 weeks. This is a pure vanity cycle :blush: :blush: I have a vacation coming up, lots of beach visits.

Cycle:
6-8 weeks Test Prop either 100 or 150 EOD (need advice on dosage here please)
.5 arimidex eod

PCT:
4 weeks 100/50/25/25 I'm guessing you mean Nolvadex? Be sure to check out our articles for a PCT cycle.

Other meds i am taking:

Finasteride ed 5mg. Speciailist prescribed, or?

Questions:
I have read some suggestions to include HCG from about week 4. Yes
I have also heard that proviron may be better than arimidex(has some positive effects with test) however the larger consensus seems to be to go with arimidex. In no way is proviron better than any type of AI or SERM/SARM. Proviron is so mild you would hardly notice it.
I felt amazing on Tbol, i'm thinking of frontloading the cycle with 60mg of Tbol ED for the first 2 weeks. T-Bol 4 weeks is best. 60mg is on the high side.
Has anyone had any experience with Androxon? I have heard good things about it being used as a form of TRT. Are you on TRT? Share some info about Androxon please


Suggestions welcome!

Thanks

Thanks for the reply!

Any dosage advice for the test prop?
So 40 tbol is a better ED dosage?

Online TDEE calculator and trial and error. I use to be able to eat a lot more without gaining weight. I am not a 100% sure why but finasteride seems like a good choice.

I definitely seem to gain fat easier than i use to. Been on the stuff for close to 2 years no. (prescription)

No, that was clomid. There seems to be a lot of recent hate on nolva, and a lot of forums/advice suggest leaving it out completely. I'll research the combination a bit more as well as i see it is suggested on this forum. Otheerwise i'll follow the pct 1 or 2 listed on this forum.

Cool, i'll add HCG to my cycle. 1000iu a week too much?

Not on TRT however have heard of people my age using Androxon to cruise, seems to be an oral that is not hepatoxic that delivers a "standard" TRT dose. Also read that some people use it as their TRT, instead of injections. Actually have thought about going on TRT, but finding a willing doctor for age 26 may be an issue.

Lol, someone upgrade the version of captcha.

Proton wrote: Lol, someone upgrade the version of captcha.

Fixed now, I updated the captcha for the site some time ago, but forgot to do it for new members on the forum.

Proton is the finasteride worth it and did you get any improvement on hair ?

I would go for 150mg prop EOD 8 weeks
30mg Tbol ED for 5 weeks
0.5mg Arimidex EOD

Take calories to atleast 2600cal. Nothing lower

If you are using Finasteride for hair loss it won't help of you take proviron.

Xtreme wrote: Proton is the finasteride worth it and did you get any improvement on hair ?

I would go for 150mg prop EOD 8 weeks
30mg Tbol ED for 5 weeks
0.5mg Arimidex EOD

Take calories to atleast 2600cal. Nothing lower

If you are using Finasteride for hair loss it won't help of you take proviron.

Finasteride has completely fixed my MPB. I have had good results. Life saver from that perspective.

Cool thanks for the input.

I did a bit more research on Nolva and Clomid. I will definitely be using both in my PCT.

Hi and Welcome.

Why do you want to cruise on an oral Testosterone Undecanoate? Do you have blood work showing that you have low testosterone levels? If not reconsider bud at your age you should have no problem with raising and keeping healthy Testosterone levels if your diet and training is supportive of it. Oral Testosterone does not have good bioavailability at all and it is going to get very expensive very quickly.

The disadvantage of Test Undecanoate is that it only becomes effective if taken in high doses. Even if a dose of 200 mg of Androxon/day is taken, the testosterone level in the blood is still too low for a bodybuilder to gain strength and muscle growth. The need for such a high daily dosage can be explained by its extremely short half—life time since the substance testosterone undecanoate is excreted very quickly by the body through the urine. The capsules, therefore, are effective for only a few hours so that 6—7 capsules, that is 240-280 mg (minimum), must be taken daily to achieve good results comparable to those of injectable compounds. This, however, puts the athlete in a dosage range which begins to influence the hormone production and the compound now more readily converts into estrogen. Such a dose can also manifest itself in a higher retention of sodium and water. This is one factor which competing athletes must consider.

If I am not mistaken we only get Androxon from Organon here in SA 40mg per capsule....

Just remeber if you decide to use the Androxon Capsules wich I do not recommend just remember to subrtract the ester weight of each 40mg cap then you have 25.3mg of testosterone per cap.

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: Hi and Welcome.

Why do you want to cruise on an oral Testosterone Undecanoate? Do you have blood work showing that you have low testosterone levels? If not reconsider bud at your age you should have no problem with raising and keeping healthy Testosterone levels if your diet and training is supportive of it. Oral Testosterone does not have good bioavailability at all and it is going to get very expensive very quickly.

The disadvantage of Test Undecanoate is that it only becomes effective if taken in high doses. Even if a dose of 200 mg of Androxon/day is taken, the testosterone level in the blood is still too low for a bodybuilder to gain strength and muscle growth. The need for such a high daily dosage can be explained by its extremely short half—life time since the substance testosterone undecanoate is excreted very quickly by the body through the urine. The capsules, therefore, are effective for only a few hours so that 6—7 capsules, that is 240-280 mg (minimum), must be taken daily to achieve good results comparable to those of injectable compounds. This, however, puts the athlete in a dosage range which begins to influence the hormone production and the compound now more readily converts into estrogen. Such a dose can also manifest itself in a higher retention of sodium and water. This is one factor which competing athletes must consider.

If I am not mistaken we only get Androxon from Organon here in SA 40mg per capsule....

Thanks for the detailed reply. Friend of mine, same age is on TRT, use to be a bit of a fatty, now he is ripped all year round. I did have my levels checked, they are on the lower end but still within "range" however that brings on an interesting debate about how relevant "range" is.

According to my results i have the test levels of a 40 to 50 year old man, so although within range, could definitely up them a bit, although this is a topic for another day, i am not really considering it right now. Will see how my first real cycle goes.

Cool, so updated protocol will be:

Cycle:

- week 1-8 Test P 150 EOD
- week 3-8 40mg Tbol ( rationale here is i want to feel what test is like by itself)

Supporting drugs:
- week 1-8 Adex .25 EOD
- week 2-8 HCG 2x per week at 250iu ( last shot 3 days after last test prop shot)
- Finasteride 5mg ED


My PCT will be as follows
- Starts 4 days after last Test P shot
- Clomid 100/50/25/25
- Nolva 40/40/20/20

Questions:

Best time to start and finish HCG?
I have read some guides saying you should start ADEX 1 week before cycles with fast ethers, as it takes time to "build up"
Which option is best:
1. Run tbol and test concurrently for the first 5 weeks.
2. Start tbol 2 weeks before before starting test. Finish tbol after 5 weeks as usual.
3. My options listed above in my proposed cycle.

Thank you!

I see this is the first time you are going to use Testosterone. In this case get the Adex and keep it on hand only use it when you need it if your nipples get puffy or very sensitive othereise you wil never know if you are gyno prone or aromatize easily...

Thanks for the reply.

Okay help me understand.

I was under the impression that running an AI was to combat all the negative sides associated with increased levels of estrogen, one of them gyno. So wouldn't dropping it entirely mean some of the other negative effects may hit me?

Should i rather consider running something milder, like aromasin, and keep the adex on hand for Gyno?

It is not a given that side effects are going to happen just be aware they can happen. If you use anti estrogen or anti aromatase from the start you are never going to know if you are gyno prone or estrogen sensitive or if your body aromatises easily. So keep the adex on hand and if you see you bloat while diet is clean or if your nipples get puffy and verry sensitive then start the Adex

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: Hi and Welcome.

Why do you want to cruise on an oral Testosterone Undecanoate? Do you have blood work showing that you have low testosterone levels? If not reconsider bud at your age you should have no problem with raising and keeping healthy Testosterone levels if your diet and training is supportive of it. Oral Testosterone does not have good bioavailability at all and it is going to get very expensive very quickly.

The disadvantage of Test Undecanoate is that it only becomes effective if taken in high doses. Even if a dose of 200 mg of Androxon/day is taken, the testosterone level in the blood is still too low for a bodybuilder to gain strength and muscle growth. The need for such a high daily dosage can be explained by its extremely short half—life time since the substance testosterone undecanoate is excreted very quickly by the body through the urine. The capsules, therefore, are effective for only a few hours so that 6—7 capsules, that is 240-280 mg (minimum), must be taken daily to achieve good results comparable to those of injectable compounds. This, however, puts the athlete in a dosage range which begins to influence the hormone production and the compound now more readily converts into estrogen. Such a dose can also manifest itself in a higher retention of sodium and water. This is one factor which competing athletes must consider.

If I am not mistaken we only get Androxon from Organon here in SA 40mg per capsule....

RB is this a copy paste from another website? doesn't look like your grammar at all.
I'd rather reference it as some users will think this is your personal experience/opinions and use this to support their decision against other advice from someone with actual experience. Then if shit hits the fan they'll quickly use this post to accuse you of bad advice

Hi Hoosain.

Yes it was copied and pasted from Anabolic.org. it was the best info I could find to ilustrate my point to the man.

Sorry was not trying to step on any toes.

Thanks guys. But any further advice on my updated cycle?

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: Hi Hoosain.

Yes it was copied and pasted from Anabolic.org. it was the best info I could find to ilustrate my point to the man.

Sorry was not trying to step on any toes.

Na buddy not stepping on toes. You have a great rep and are always helpful. Some newbie will come here and make mistakes using what they read. Then after will try and discredit everything you say and do.
trust me i've seen it happen before

If you could also have a look at my updated, proposed cycle that would be great. Since its my first test base cycle, want to have it done right.

IMO
Your test is fine, i wouldn't use the tbol unless you already puchased it. Use your hcg to week 10 as your pct will start on day 14.

As for pct run clomid at 50mg for 14 days after that nolva 20mg for the next 30. Dont start your pct 4 days after last pin will still have test in system.

FIllet wrote: IMO
Your test is fine, i wouldn't use the tbol unless you already puchased it. Use your hcg to week 10 as your pct will start on day 14.

As for pct run clomid at 50mg for 14 days after that nolva 20mg for the next 30. Dont start your pct 4 days after last pin will still have test in system.

Interesting, i see there are various suggestions regarding when to start PCT after short esters. Most of the information i have found online suggests that PCT should start 3-4 days after your last shot of T prop. Not seeing a lot of suggestions for 2 weeks afterwards. Quick google search suggests that some say you need to wait 5 half lives, if true, this would indicate you are correct.

However i have seen counter arguments against this, suggesting clomid takes time to build up in your system.

At this point, i am uncertain when to start my PCT.

Take your half life and X by 3. Add a day or 2. Better to start later then sooner or pct will be ineffective.

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: Hi Hoosain.

Yes it was copied and pasted from Anabolic.org. it was the best info I could find to ilustrate my point to the man.

Sorry was not trying to step on any toes.

Please don't post info from other sites unless you are 100% comfortable to explain/defend their point. Personally, I don't trust a single word from any other steroid Site.

Noted Pyro, sorry for that.

Hey guys, i am exactly 14 days into this cycle. Put on 4kg of weight thus far, probably mostly water weight.

About 10-20 percent increase in strength.

My nipples have started feeling a little sore, so i have upped my dose of adex to 0.5 EOD.

I do my first HCG injection tonight.

So just a quick one regarding Finasteride.

A friend of mine used it before for his MPB, he ended up with quite bad sex drive issues which really took a toll on his relationship. Going limp mid-intercourse and various other issues.

He did a bit more research and it is a common side effect, not sure if it is always temporary or whether it can be permanent as I've never considered taking it.

When he found this out he had already been off the Finasteride for a few weeks and it took him a few months to come right. So consider doing more research into it.