New Thread for cycle

Hi Guys,

I am starting a new thread for my cycle starting Monday.

The planned cycle is:

Week 1-3
Test E 500mg
Masteron 200mg

Pin once a week (3ml)

Week 4-12
Test E 750mg
Masteron 400mg
Dbol 40mg ed (before gym)

Pin once a week (5ml)

Masteron is long ester

I asked on other thread so I am just creating a new thread for advice and keep an update on progress.

I will be doing week 1-3 on Ciccone (Already bought gear) then will switch to HD or PGW from week 4 and update on that as well.

Stats
Length 1.87
Weight 110kg
Age 30

Bloods: Current
Hormones:
Test 8.8 (LOW)
Free test 243 (LOW)
Estrogen 96 (HIGH)
Vitamin D3 17 (very LOW)

Inflammation:
S-CRP 1.2 (HIGH)
Homocysteine 10 (HIGH)
Ferritin 167 (HIGH)

Diet:
Carbs:340g
Fat: 72g
Protein: 290g
Sodium: 3409mg
Sugar: 91g
Total Cals: 3168

This diet is in a 600 cal deficit

My Questions:
Is 5ml okay to pin once per week or do I need to split the dosage? I will be injecting in the glutes.
Is 750mg Test E not a bit too much or is it okay? I have done 1000mg Cyp per week before pinning 5oomg twice per week with Tren E 300mg before but this messed up estrogen. This cycle was Jan 2017 and bloods was done in July 2018.

Training 6 days per week:
Day 1: Chest & Abs
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Shoudlers & Calves
Day 4: Back
Day 5: Arms
Day 6: Calves, Abs and any other group I feel like training.

whats your bf%?

Why dbol in there when it seems as if you're trying to cut?

I'm not an expert on bloods, however your estrogen is high! do you really want to go high test and risk some nasty estro sides?

Also those bloods don't look too good. Are you not worried about possibly doing more damage than there could already be?
Any reason why it's so low? When last were you on cycle?

BF between 15-18%.

I am going for lean mass. I want to bring down bf to about 10%.

Yip my estrogen is very high. I am taking arimidex already with a cream prescribed by the doctor. Who will monitor me on cycle with bloods every 4 weeks.

I understand that Masteron aids as an anti-estrogen (if I understand the information on the forum correctly). From week 2-12 I will take 0.5mg Arimidex.

I am however concerned about doing more damage but I do have a doctor who is monitoring me.

Reason being low, I never did proper PCT with previous cycle as mentioned above. No CLomid or HCG was used.

ok yes forgot about your doc. That's why i recommended keeping one thread, all your details will be there making it easier to assist.

Masteron does have the properties but is by no means an anti estrogen. With your high E2 levels would you not consider using aromasin instead? arimidex leaves room for rebound. And at your BF and e2 levels it's something i wouldn't chance.

Your bf is also a bit high to be cycling especially with those e2 levels. If i were in your shoes i would not do that cycle right now. I would drop BF more. I have been in your situation before with high BF and better e2 levels and i waited to get my BF down instead. Remember rather safe than sorry

Also looking at your diet. I personally would knock down a bit on the carbs and protein and add more healthy fats. Remember your body needs fat as well.

How was your BF% measured BTW? Is it just a guess or was there an actual method to measure it?

Your cycle seems all over the place and for your bloods to come back looking like that a year later is a bit of a concern.

I'd say cancel the cycle and spend the time getting your natural levels back to where they should be. Perhaps consider discussing TRT with your Dr?

Like Hoosain, I also much prefer Aromasin over the other AI's. It does not destroy your E2 levels to the point they are crazy low and does not have any rebound effects so no need to taper off of it.

Also with the high E2 and the BF%, consider doing a cut and dropping some BF first.


Masteron is not an AI. Use a proper AI for AI purposes.
Why would you add Dbol if you want to cut? It's most likely going to lead to you being bloated and will certainly not assist with your high estrogen. If you do run it again at a later point, consider splitting the dose up - so 20mg in the morning and 20mg in the evening.
I do not understand why you are increasing the Test and Mast in week 4? 750mg of test is getting to the higher side of things as well.
You are having issues with your bloods due to no proper PCT on your last cycle and you have not even mentioned any form of PCT for this cycle either...

I personally have never pinned 3ml in one go, I would prefer to split it.
I'd also recommend you rather split your test pins (might as well split the other pins as well so you don't need to pin as much oil) into twice a week.
So 250mg twice a week instead of 500mg once a week. So something like 250mg Sunday and 250mg Wednesday.

Spot on psy

Thanks for the response guys.

I am here to seek advice as following bad advice left me with the issues I have, so I am more than open for any advice given.

Hoosain:
Yeah I figured let me put everything in one post.

Yes that is what I understand from masteron, it has the properties but it isnt an AI.
I will go for aromasin instead then, the cream prescribed (mentioned in another post) does contain arimidex so using aromasin instead would make more sense. Should I consider starting I would follow the advice given by oupa on another thread to start using aromasin 1 week before cycle starts. M/W/F.

I can adjust my diet for more fat and less carbs to a ratio of 40% protein 30% carbs and 30%fats? The higher intake of protein should give a thermogenic effect.

Psy:
Bodyfat was measured by skinfold using the Parillo Caliper method.

I hear what you are saying and it does make sense to get my natural level right first. I am on a testosterone cream with arimidex in to sort my levels out. The doctor I am seeing said it should be safe to cycle given I continue with the cream during and after my cycle. But I rather take to the forum for advice.

With what you mention by doing a cut first, are we talking a cut cycle or fat burner and diet etc. I have in stock test prop and tren ace and var and proviron.

I can change the dbol for var?

I should mention the doc referred me to a trainer who worked out the cycle for me but I do have my concerns. 750mg is a bit on the high side, hence I am posting the cycle on the forum for advice.

The pct for this cycle would be pct 3.

The most I have pinned was 3ml twice per week (cycle mentioned in OP) and that was fine for me. But splitting the pins I can do. Only split my test pins? And not masteron as well?

I am taking into consideration to first bring down my bf, test e2 once body fat is at 12% and then reconsider. What BF% would you advise I be at before I start the cycle?

Just to note:
I have not met up with the trainer in person and he never asked for my BF. I am meeting up with him over the weekend and will bring all my concerns up with him.

I have replied below and comments are in bold.

esgaroth wrote: Psy:
Bodyfat was measured by skinfold using the Parillo Caliper method.

I hear what you are saying and it does make sense to get my natural level right first. I am on a testosterone cream with arimidex in to sort my levels out. The doctor I am seeing said it should be safe to cycle given I continue with the cream during and after my cycle. But I rather take to the forum for advice.

Firstly I am not a Doctor. That being said I strongly feel as if they are not always right, you get good doctors and not so great ones.
I do not have any experience or knowledge with testosterone creams, if it is just putting exogenous test back into your body then it sounds like TRT to me and I personally would rather inject my test as it is a tried and tested method which I imagine to have a higher bio-availability (I stand to be corrected on this though).
Perhaps a conversation to have with your Dr, see if TRT is a suitable treatment for you and if pinning yourself for the rest of your life is something you would be willing to do - it might be cool at first but after a few months or a few years, it will certainly get tiresome and tedious.
There are downsides to TRT as well, I recommend you do your own research and decide whether it is something you would seriously consider or not.
You may very well be able to get your hormones back to normal naturally and not have to give yourself any exogenous hormones, chances are this will take a while though.


With what you mention by doing a cut first, are we talking a cut cycle or fat burner and diet etc. I have in stock test prop and tren ace and var and proviron.
I can change the dbol for var?

Diet and some fat burners if you want. Your test is low and estrogen is high, that will affect the way your body stores water & fat and retains muscle.


I should mention the doc referred me to a trainer who worked out the cycle for me but I do have my concerns. 750mg is a bit on the high side, hence I am posting the cycle on the forum for advice.

I know some of the bigger members on this forum run higher doses of test and I believe some even higher than 750mg a week, although some cruise and blast which does down regulate the receptors. A bit of trial and error might be needed although generally majority of people do not seem to go higher than 500mg for a cycle of test.
Perhaps go with 500mg for the entire cycle, add some other oils into the mix at appropriate doses and ensure you put enough effort into training and focus on your diet and monitor the results. I personally do not feel as if increasing the dose is the answer to more gains... At least not for the more "average" folk who cycle.


The pct for this cycle would be pct 3.

The most I have pinned was 3ml twice per week (cycle mentioned in OP) and that was fine for me. But splitting the pins I can do. Only split my test pins? And not masteron as well?

I think split both pins, draw the test and masteron oil in a single syrine and pin twice a week. That is what I would do.


I am taking into consideration to first bring down my bf, test e2 once body fat is at 12% and then reconsider. What BF% would you advise I be at before I start the cycle?

I find 12% or lower is a nice and easily achievable BF% to be before starting a cycle, some people gain fat a bit easier than others though - you should know your body well enough to adjust your eating and training accordingly to ensure you do not gain too much fat while bulking but still try and maximize on muscle gains.


Just to note:
I have not met up with the trainer in person and he never asked for my BF. I am meeting up with him over the weekend and will bring all my concerns up with him.

I assume you have since met up with him and some of your questions may already have been answered?

Thanks Psy,

I had a chat with my doctor regarding my concerns esp the high estrogen but he assured me he will keep an eye on that during cycle. Both the doctor and trainer recommended arimidex at 1mg ed. Not sure how the sides on that will be but I am taking joint support daily with my pre workout and will supplement for that over and above the joint support I take with my pre workout.

Regarding PCT, doc explained this will be a process in its own to to get my natural level up without TRT. He did not go into much details yet but clomid and hcg was mentioned. I will do bloods 2 weeks after cycle and then we will take it from there.

I adjusted my diet a litle bit and aiming for 12% bf soon, I started with cardio this week and will gradually up the cardio and keep training sessions short but intense at 45 mins training and aiming for 20mins cardio (slowly working up to that). I have clen and FOF on hand. I will only use 1 of them and not both at the same time. Or maybe 2weeks clen then 2 weeks fof.

I have done high levels of test before but with my current situation I would feel much more comfortable to do 400mg masteron E p/w and 500mg Test E p/w and replace dbol for var @40mg ed from week 4. Going for a bulk now might not be the best idea but lean gains and then after sort out natural levels then lean bulk.

I met up with my trainer who stressed the importance of arimidex and that I need to take 1mg ed from week 2 over and above what I get from the cream.

He will not get a proper indication of your recovery if that's what he's looking for with bloods 2 weeks after your cycle ends

esgaroth wrote: Thanks Psy,

I had a chat with my doctor regarding my concerns esp the high estrogen but he assured me he will keep an eye on that during cycle. Both the doctor and trainer recommended arimidex at 1mg ed. Not sure how the sides on that will be but I am taking joint support daily with my pre workout and will supplement for that over and above the joint support I take with my pre workout.

Regarding PCT, doc explained this will be a process in its own to to get my natural level up without TRT. He did not go into much details yet but clomid and hcg was mentioned. I will do bloods 2 weeks after cycle and then we will take it from there.

Correct, PCT is to get your body producing test naturally and to speed up that process - help give your body a kickstart. Generally the longer your natural hormones are suppressed, the longer ones body can take to recover and at times one does not recover at all or does not recover fully.
Hence why you have been recommended to get your hormone levels sorted out first - running another cycle now will just keep your natural test production suppressed.
TRT could be seen as a possible "quick fix", however it isn't a choice one should make lightly.
You need to take all of this into consideration before you even consider a cycle, this should be step #1.

As Hoosain has said, 2 weeks after your cycle you will still be in your "bridge" period, unless your Dr is referring to 2 weeks after your PCT in which case the same applies. Your blood test results will not provide a very accurate representation of how your natural hormone levels are. If during your bridge, you will still have higher levels of test and if 2 weeks after PCT your hormones will still be on the lower side.

I adjusted my diet a litle bit and aiming for 12% bf soon, I started with cardio this week and will gradually up the cardio and keep training sessions short but intense at 45 mins training and aiming for 20mins cardio (slowly working up to that). I have clen and FOF on hand. I will only use 1 of them and not both at the same time. Or maybe 2weeks clen then 2 weeks fof.

I have done high levels of test before but with my current situation I would feel much more comfortable to do 400mg masteron E p/w and 500mg Test E p/w and replace dbol for var @40mg ed from week 4. Going for a bulk now might not be the best idea but lean gains and then after sort out natural levels then lean bulk.

Hoosain and I have given you our concerns with regards to natural hormone levels and running a cycle now.
It is your body and you need to decide what might be the best thing for you to do. You could run a cycle now and do a proper PCT and recover very well without any issues after that, or it could cause issues. Only one way to find out really

I met up with my trainer who stressed the importance of arimidex and that I need to take 1mg ed from week 2 over and above what I get from the cream.

I do not have much experience with Arimidex, I prefer Aromasin and fortunately do not suffer from gyno issues so have not had much need to make use of any AI. Keep in mind estrogen is still important for us men, we do still need some. Low estrogen can have some negative side effects for us men too.
With regards to that testosterone cream, isn't that just a different ROA for getting exogenous test into your body? If so that won't decrease your E2 levels. It isn't an AI. It would also suppress your natural test production.

If I were not recovering from an op I would have type out everything psy said.

+1 psy for awesome advice

Hi Guys,

This has been long overdue so I apologize for my delay in responding.

I did start with the cycle and currently at week 5.

My diet is on 3500 cals per day and water intake at 5liters per day.

Current stats are
Weight: 116kg
BF: 13%

So far everything has been good.

Had estrogen spike and sore puffy nips from week 1 (I know to early in cycle for that but it happened). Started with 1mg arimidex ed at night which helped but was not enough. Got letro tabs and currently on 2.5mg per day at night and estrogen is under control. Good libido, good energy and mental focus.

I upped my test e to 750mg per week (week 4) and started with dboll this week only.

So far I must say, once I got my estrogen under control it has been going well. I am really enjoying this cycle a lot.

Ps. I started with Masteron @400mg per week from week 1 and will continue until week 12.
Also, I started with ciccone test e 250mg and I cannot complain about the product.

I want to ask 2 things though:
1. Can I use anavar @60mg during bridge from last test pin until 2 days before pct start (PCT 3). PCT will start 34 days after last test pin.
2. What SARM would be ideal to run after cycle to help maintain and keep energy and strength in the gym after cycle which will not cause shut down.

Mk677 and GW501516 if you can only choose one go with MK677

esgaroth wrote: I want to ask 2 things though:
1. Can I use anavar @60mg during bridge from last test pin until 2 days before pct start (PCT 3). PCT will start 34 days after last test pin.
2. What SARM would be ideal to run after cycle to help maintain and keep energy and strength in the gym after cycle which will not cause shut down.

1. Sounds fine

2. SARMS might be mild but they definitely do compromise your recovery during PCT. Since you already have had issues with very low T and are doing a steroid cycle anyway, you are going to struggle with recovery. No way around that. You can't take testosterone cream either during PCT. PCT won't work. So you'll need to decide if you want to try to recover post cycle to normal T levels or go the Test cream and TRT route.

GW501516 and MK677 are not suppressive at all and a good option to stack with any PCT.

Thanks for the feedback.

I will look into GW501516 and MK677 to run after cycle.

I am going to discontinue the test cream once pct starts. Recovery is going to take time and I am fine with that. Just need to be patient and hope for the best.

I'm baffled that you upped your test after already having estro sides in the start of your cycle. Remember more test can lead to more sides.

Also your stats. You went from 110kg and 15-18% BF in august and are now at 116kg and 13% BF?
So you dropped roughly 1.5kg fat and gained 7kg of muscle in a month? WOW

The letro tabs seems to be doing its thing in terms of estrogen control. Going to test e2 on Saturday along with prolactin. I am starting week 6 tomorrow entering the 3rd week on 750mg test and so far everything seems fine.

I weighed this morning and I was at 114.kg. As for the bf% it is in the high 13%, 13.8% to be exact. BF% at start of cycle was 16%.

Hi Guys,

I want to know if it should be okay if I lower my test to 500mg p/w

Upping to 750mg p/w wasnt the best Idea but lesson learned. I am strugling to keep my estrogen under control and feel like dog shit (which comes with high estrogen). At first I thought it was just the letro tabs making me feel like crap but reading another thread about high estrogen made me think it can be the test at 750mg p/w.

I am going to get my estrogen tested between today and saturday to get a better view.

This is what I am thinking I should do, drop test back to 500mg p/w, wait a week or 2, run letro tabs again for 10 days. And see how that goes.

I really want to finish this cycle good. At this moment I am not seeing the gains I wanted to see, I saw more change in the first 3 weeks than now. It is as if I am standing still since I upped my test. I did change to HD labs from week 4 so it could be that the batch is bunk.

I'd always take HD Labs over Ciccone. I wouldn't use Ciccone if it were given to me for free - that's just me though and I'd rather be a bit more picky with my brands as it is oil being injected into me... Not much to filter out any shit or contaminants unlike when taking something orally. I still stick to PGW for my oils though and never have any concerns or worries about their products. If you can get your hands on PGW, I'd recommend them.

If you had hit a plateau in week 6, I would look at your diet, rest and gym rather than your oil. E2 could be causing some issues to - although to what extent I am not sure. I fortunately do not really suffer from Estrogen issues.

You are bouncing like a yoyo with your dosages, the fact that you already had estrogen issues at the start of your cycle is a bit of a concern - what spiked it?
Why do you want to stop the letro? I do not think that is a good idea and when you do stop it, make sure you taper off it.

You can drop your dose back down to 500mg per week, although keep in mind it will take 4 - 6 weeks to stabilize again.
You can go have your E2 tested if you want, although it may change a little over the next week or so as well, however it will give you an idea of your current situation if you want extra confirmation and peace of mind.

As for Prolactin, you are not running anything which would cause an increase in prolactin though? Why do you think you might have a prolactin issue?

Hahaha forgive me for laughing, but i did warn you. Anyway it’s a learning curve and next time you’ll know what not to do.

The advice is all there already buddy. Drop test and keep the ai. If you could possibly get aromasin... go for it to avoid rebound.

I also think you should Go and do bloods just to be sure the e2 is really the culprit. Right now it’s all speculation.
If you’re using the test cream then I’d stop that as well. Will only add more test which means more chance of aromatase.

Ensure diet is good. I personally would cut back on carbs and add more good fats. However that’s just my body that prefers it that way.

For now try to stay calm and don’t rush into a million different things. Decide what you’re going to do and follow through with it. Too many changes will probably just agitate you when you don’t see immediate results and you’ll end up with crazy anxiety which is another problem.

Good luck buddy, I’m sure you’ll get sorted in no time

HD labs is good, I am using their masteron and switched to HD test e from ciccone, tbh I can't say anything bad about ciccone's test e. Won;t use it again though. I will finish the cycle with HD labs.

I will change my diet from next week. I am only doing low gi carbs but I can do with more fats. I will adjust my diet to be 40% P 30% C and 40% F. So thank you for that. I think the immediate spike in estrogen could be from dianabol (using LP @40mg pd before gym).

A question regarding the letro, how long can I run it for? As long as I can take it? I will test e2 to get a better view on what is happening. It would be helpful te know if it is high, by how much.

For now I will continue with letro just to avoid making to many changes during the cycle and clean up my diet and sleep routine.

Thank for the help despite the warning. I will post estrogen results once I get them. Anything else I should test or would e2 be enough?

No worries bro. We live and we learn.

For bloods I suppose checking everything agin for peace of mind is not a bad idea. Better to plan when you know more about what’s going on in your body.

Letro you can run right through your cycle to keep e2 down. Just remember to taper off to avoid rebounding heavily.
During pct I highly recommend aromasin. Your test levels are going to be low and you’re going to want decent estro control. I personally think aromasin comes out tops for that.

Thanks bro.

I will continue with letro until pct? Or start tappering off after last pin?

I will follow pct 3 exactly to the T. I will start stocking up for everything I need for that.

Thanks again