Next Cycle: Deca & Test

Hey All!

So I am looking at running another cycle, finally want to try some Deca.
Been doing a bit of reading and research and things are still a little fuzzy so looking for a bit of advice to make sure I do things properly. I only plan to start end of September / beginning of October.

Let's start with my stats:
Height: 163
Weight: 64KG
BF: 11%

Looking at running it for 12 weeks, might consider pushing it for another month - if I do then things will be adjusted accordingly. Although don't really suffer from gyno issues, I have access to Aromasin if needed.

PGW Test Cyp | Week 1 - 12 | 500mg per week
PGW Deca 350 | Week 1 - 12 | 400mg per week
Cabaser | Week 1 - 12?| 0.5mg Every 5 days

PCT:
Drop to lower dose of test


A very simple and basic cycle, no kickstart. I might add an oral towards the end of the cycle (perhaps blast is a more accurate term here).

My few concerns:
Since there is no actual PCT involved, I think I should be good to run the Deca for 12 weeks as opposed to 10 weeks? Or is it recommended to still stop the Deca a bit sooner so that the test and deca reach 3x their half life around the same time?

Doses for Deca seem to be all over the place, from the sample cycle, to cycles people have posted on this forum as well as cycles people have posted on other forums. In the Deca profile 00pump recommended no lower than 400mg per week for muscle building - do you guys think this will be sufficient or should I consider increasing the dose a bit?

Can't find all that much about the best way to run Cabaser. I suspect some may be more prone to prolactin issues than others (similar to estrogen in this regard)? What is the best and recommended way to approach prolactin issues when running Deca and/or other substances which can lead to an increase in prolactin, such as Tren. Do I keep it on hand and start using only when issues happen (reactive), do I keep it on hand and get bloods taken at say 4 weeks in and then consider, or do I start using Cabaser from the get go until the end of the cycle as stated above? I have seen some people continue to run Cabaser for a month after they have stopped pinning Deca, would this be best?

From what I could see 0.5mg E5D seems to be fairly common, unless you are suffering from high prolactin levels in which case 0.5mg E3D seems to be what people are using then.

A bit of guidance regarding Cabaser would be greatly appreciated.

No HCG with Deca? No PCT? Huge mistake.

Oupa wrote: No HCG with Deca? No PCT? Huge mistake.

I think he's cruising on trt hence no PCT. However i could be misunderstanding him.

I guess this is also a great time for me to learn about PCT use while cruising.

I struggle with Labido issues on Deca but then I introduce some proviron and it keeps it sorted.

Also not sure about PCT, assume you are cursing TRT so is PCT still a thing then ?

Hoosain wrote:

Oupa wrote: No HCG with Deca? No PCT? Huge mistake.

I think he's cruising on trt hence no PCT. However i could be misunderstanding him.

I guess this is also a great time for me to learn about PCT use while cruising.

He will have no fucking nuts within 4 moths if he doesnt use HCG.

Oupa wrote:

Hoosain wrote:

Oupa wrote: No HCG with Deca? No PCT? Huge mistake.

I think he's cruising on trt hence no PCT. However i could be misunderstanding him.

I guess this is also a great time for me to learn about PCT use while cruising.

He will have no fucking nuts within 4 moths if he doesnt use HCG.

Agreed.

thanks Oupa, i get that hcg bit.

Oupa wrote:

Hoosain wrote:

Oupa wrote: No HCG with Deca? No PCT? Huge mistake.

I think he's cruising on trt hence no PCT. However i could be misunderstanding him.

I guess this is also a great time for me to learn about PCT use while cruising.

He will have no fucking nuts within 4 moths if he doesnt use HCG.

Maybe he IS NUTS like me. We don't need more nuts.

Oupa wrote: No HCG with Deca? No PCT? Huge mistake.

Actually glad you brought up HCG, I have recently been looking into it a bit more.
Apart from keeping your balls on the larger side and possibly helping maintain fertility if on TRT (sometimes hcg alone is not enough and people need to add some FSH or try various other things it seems), it's a LH analogue and is essential for Pregnenolone which seems like quite the precursor. Affects quite a few hormones.

With that being said, there is still a lot of various ways of dosing hcg. I know generally for cycles 250iu twice a week on the same day as your test shot is what's normally recommended around here.
I seem to recall a while ago you said you found 200iu to be your preferred dosage, how did you come to such a conclusion?
I have read on a few other TRT forums that some people prefer higher doses, such as 500iu twice a week or even 500iu three times a week.
I know Crisler likes daily, or as frequently as possible - a bit of a mission though and how necessary it is I do not know. Twice a week still seems to be a good compromise though.

With regards to PCT, what would you recommend for someone on TRT? I can see the need for prolactin control - when to start and stop it is still something I would like a bit further clarification on, as well as the better dosing protocol. What else might be needed PCT wise in such a situation?
If I weren't on TRT I'd most likely look at hcg during cycle (starting week 4 or 5) and then run some Clomid followed by Nolva after the bridge period.

If there is something I am not seeing here, please do tell! That is why I am creating this thread

I see there are "Thank You's" to my last post but no actual comments? Come on guys

Gym_Junkie wrote: I struggle with Labido issues on Deca but then I introduce some proviron and it keeps it sorted.

Also not sure about PCT, assume you are cursing TRT so is PCT still a thing then ?

I assume this has something to do with Deca converting to DHN at a higher rate than testosterone converts to DHT and then more of the DHN binds to the androgen receptors. DHT I have heard is partially responsible for ones libido. A fix for this is to adjust the ratio of test : deca and/or take something which lowers SHBG (Proviron, Winstrol etc.) which allows for more free testosterone, therefore more DHT and a higher chance of more DHT binding to the androgen receptors.
I have seen a ratio of 5:3 being recommended and I do realize my ratio is 5:4, how much of an effect it has I am still trying to find out. I do not really want to up my test dose just yet and do not feel as if I should lower my Deca dose as the recommended is 400mg, however I have seen others run lower doses of Deca. Gotta try find that balance. Part of why I created this thread, get feedback from those who have done it and are able to offer perspective.

This is how I understand it, however I am still looking into it and may have it wrong - if I do, please let me know!

Just to respond on the thank you's. I'm thanking you for certain information and for the questions as i am learning from the posts hahaha.

I am willing to give my understanding though which will not be 100% accurate and is based on reading only and no actual experience from my side.

Here goes. On TRT/cruising you won't really need PCT, however you will still need certain ancillaries to help your body from being shut down completely due to certain compounds like Deca. This is where the hcg comes in.

If i were in this postiion of being on trt and blasting a deca cycle, i'd use the hcg from week 4 as per regular test cycles and would probably continue another 4 weeks after my cycle has ended as a form of PCT.

As for prolactin control. I have read and heard that alot of times prolactin also happens due to estro going a bit high. a trusted friend who has plenty of experience personally uses estro control for his 19nor cycles and mentions that this also helps keep prolactin at bay and he has no need for cabaser. However i also know that everyone reacts differently to the different compounds. Therefore i'd be willing to try out his estro control suggestion but i'd also have cabaser on hand in case the estro control does not help. in the case of cabaser i would use 0.5mg every 5 days and continue for 2 weeks after last deca shot.

If not going the estro control route i would use the cabaser from the beginning of the cycle and continue for 2 weeks after last deca shot as mentioned above.

As previously mentioned i personally don't have experience with trt and cycling and the above is just opinions based on my understanding and knowledge of the protocols and compounds in question.

Further than that, Psy you're not a newbie and you know your stuff already. So i'm sure you've covered alot of bases on the cycle as well and ams ure you'll get great results from your cycle. Good luck bud

EDIT: the cabaser running for 2 weeks after last pin was actually based on using NPP. for long acting i would would use cabaser for 4weeks/month after my last pin due to deca still leaving the system with it's longer half life.

also to add one more opinion, at your weight i think even 350mg of deca should see you with some good results.

Hoosain wrote: Just to respond on the thank you's. I'm thanking you for certain information and for the questions as i am learning from the posts hahaha.

I am willing to give my understanding though which will not be 100% accurate and is based on reading only and no actual experience from my side.

Here goes. On TRT/cruising you won't really need PCT, however you will still need certain ancillaries to help your body from being shut down completely due to certain compounds like Deca. This is where the hcg comes in.

If i were in this postiion of being on trt and blasting a deca cycle, i'd use the hcg from week 4 as per regular test cycles and would probably continue another 4 weeks after my cycle has ended as a form of PCT.

As for prolactin control. I have read and heard that alot of times prolactin also happens due to estro going a bit high. a trusted friend who has plenty of experience personally uses estro control for his 19nor cycles and mentions that this also helps keep prolactin at bay and he has no need for cabaser. However i also know that everyone reacts differently to the different compounds. Therefore i'd be willing to try out his estro control suggestion but i'd also have cabaser on hand in case the estro control does not help. in the case of cabaser i would use 0.5mg every 5 days and continue for 2 weeks after last deca shot.

If not going the estro control route i would use the cabaser from the beginning of the cycle and continue for 2 weeks after last deca shot as mentioned above.

As previously mentioned i personally don't have experience with trt and cycling and the above is just opinions based on my understanding and knowledge of the protocols and compounds in question.

Further than that, Psy you're not a newbie and you know your stuff already. So i'm sure you've covered alot of bases on the cycle as well and ams ure you'll get great results from your cycle. Good luck bud

EDIT: the cabaser running for 2 weeks after last pin was actually based on using NPP. for long acting i would would use cabaser for 4weeks/month after my last pin due to deca still leaving the system with it's longer half life.

Hoosain wrote: also to add one more opinion, at your weight i think even 350mg of deca should see you with some good results.

Ahh, fair enough I guess. haha

Yes, I also do not see a need for a "traditional" PCT if I could refer to it as such. No need to get the system fully kick started to produce test naturally again.
I agree that HCG is a good idea, even for those on TRT. People seem to have different reasons for wanting to use HCG and that may also be why their doses are different - my one concern is desensitization / receptor down regulation from continuous use of HCG. Something I need to look into a bit further.

I have also read that if you keep your estrogen in check, then prolactin will probably not be an issue. Here is a quote from an article

Prolactin increases can be controlled either with the use of Prolactin antagonist drugs (such as Cabergoline or Pramipexole), however, prevention of rising Estrogen levels are also an effective method. For one thing, it is strongly speculated that the Estrogen in fact serves as a co-binding factor in the Prolactin receptor expression (PRLR). This can increase an individual’s sensitivity to Prolactin even if Prolactin levels themselves are not high in the body. This is a very sound theory when it is understood that the Estrogen receptor is a causative factor in Prolactin issues. Therefore, controlling Estrogen levels should control the effects of Prolactin. This is the number one reason why the side effects associated with 19-nor compounds (such as Nandrolone and Trenbolone) are frequently reported to be far more pronounced and with greater severity when they are used in a high Estrogen environment (whether it is from stacking Nandrolone or Trenbolone with high aromatizable doses of an aromatizable compound, such as Testosterone or otherwise).

I am thinking maybe I should get some bloods done during the blast to monitor and then take it from there. Was hoping others could give a bit more feedback on what has worked for them etc.

I've been thinking about a lower dose of Deca. I see others have done it and DruOmedra is also running 350mg. I guess at a later point I can always run Deca again at a higher dose and then I have experience on how Deca affects me too. Might be a better idea.

Hey Psyclown

I recently ran my first Deca cycle. It was 300mg NPP and 250mg Test/week for 8 weeks followed by HCG. I'm on TRT so I didn't do a traditional PCT either.
I was very happy with it, the first 6 weeks were great, NPP is some might powerful magic. I did find my libido crashed a bit at the end of the cycle though so I ran an AI to get estrogen under control. I got noticeably stronger quite quickly and picked up lean mass as well. I was hungry though, ended up eating way past what I normally would and that messed with my diet discipline. Otherwise all good.

I chose NPP because of the short ester, possibly consider that. If I did it again I would probably run test a little higher, but I had no problems of any significance. I agree with your thinking of run a smaller dose first time round and establish how your body reacts.


Good luck.

Hi PsyClown

Happy to share my experience. I am on TRT the past 3 years. My last 2 nandrolone blasts were as follows:

700 mg Test E pw
525 mg NPP pw
0.25 mg caber 2 times per week (half a pill twice weekly)
AI as needed (liquid anastrozole)

I have only tried HCG once a couple of years ago. But it made me feel like crap. I do about 2 heavy blasts per year and had no real issues with testicular atrophy. I guess this will differ from person to person.

I would always use Caber on Nandrolone or Trenbolone. Keeping your Estrogen under control will help but Caber will keep you prolacten at bay. I continue with it a week or two after dropping the Nortestosterone.

My sweet spot for runnings Nors is about 10 weeks. I think it could assist you a lot if you run Dbol for the first 4 weeks.

When I stop the Nors I take the Test down stepwise over a 2 or 3 week period back to my TRT dose which is 150 mg pw.

Hope this helps. Good luck!


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Thanks for the info guys, sorry for the delayed response though.

I see you guys prefer NPP over the longer ester. I already have my Deca, so will give NPP a try next time.

I have decided to adjust the Deca to 350mg per week, will run a single bottle so will last me just over 9 weeks.
As for running of Cabaer, I like the idea of 0.25mg twice a week.

@Hitman, just to confirm. My Cabaser pills are 1mg each. So I would be taking a quarter twice a week.
Is that correct or was there a typo / misunderstanding with your post? Did you maybe mean 0.5mg twice a week as opposed to 0.25mg twice a week?

So a little update.

Started my cycle on Sunday, decided to go with 350mg Deca and 500mg test per week.
No oral to kickstart, might throw one in later on - see how I feel and how things are going.

Been sick, been booked off work. So no gym, extremely frustrating but best I rest so I can get back into the gym ASAP. Will do a weigh in and such when I am back at gym, weight will be down due to eating and no gym unfortunately and the events leading up to me being sick have not helped - just extremely busy and lack of sleep and rest and eating too. At least that is all over now though!

Did a FBC before I started and Hematocrit level looks good at 0.47, wanted to have it checked for peace of mind.


I also dislike HCG a bit, does not make me feel the greatest. Will try adjust dosage a little perhaps over time and see how that works for me. Need to finish my pre-loaded syringes first.
Have not really had much in terms of testicular atrophy, whether the Deca would change that or not I do not know. Am running HCG at the moment and will continue to with the Deca as well.