Cycling T3 T4

  • chemical g
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11 Oct 2007 03:26 #188 by chemical g
Cycling T3 T4 was created by chemical g
Hi Doctari

I have always cycled my Thyroid use while on GH and insulin with very good results
What is your opinion on cycling T3 and T4 ie. T3 (tertroxin 3x 20ug tabs daily) for 3-4 weeks and then switching to T4 (Eltroxin 50ug 2x tabs daily)for the same period then back to T3. I spoke to Milos Sarcev when he was here regarding this matter and he says its pretty close to what he does on himself and the pros he prepares however Milos is extremely hardcore and a Medical opinion on this matter would greatly be appreciated.

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  • Doctari
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12 Oct 2007 04:39 #197 by Doctari
Replied by Doctari on topic Cycling T3 T4
Bro, this is a very \"intense\" subject. Just remember that your thyroid directly or indirectly controls EVERY hormone in your body - so, don't stuff it up.!!

Firstly, just a couple of facts to make you think. Your thyroid produces ± 80ug of T4(Eltroxin) per 24h. Of this, only 35ug gets \"converted\" to T3(Tertroxin). The rest gets converted to the inactive form of T3, namely rT3. The latter does nothing for your metabolism.
The thyroid tissue also produces 5ug of T3 directly( non-T4 conversion pathway). Do the maths - you would generally produce 40ug Active T3. Only T3 is used actively in your metabolic ways.

Now, interestingly, 96% of a T3 oral does gets absorbed, but only 80% of T4 after oral ingestion. T3 is 4 - 5 x more bio-active than T4, meaning that 100ug of T4, will only render 20-30ug of T3 production. See where this is leading to yet? You need atleast 200ug of T4 to equal 3 x T3 tabs(20ug each).

But why would you want to do that? T3 has a half life of 24 h, but T4 7-14 days! In clinical practise, we only see an effect on TSH, T4 and T3 levels after 4 weeks of use of T4 at 100ug/24h. If you use T4 and T3 in cycles as you do, you are just cycling high and low levels of endogenous vs exogenous T3. IMO, that's counter productive!

Next, as far as the concern of becoming Hypothyriod due to HGH use:
It is a known fact that HGH puts \"stress\" on the conversion of T4. But, what is not generally known, is that this is only so for the first 2 - 3 months of HGH use. Remember, ALL organs enlarge in matter due to the effect of HGH, and so does the thyroid tissue, which, because of the general anabolism, has a higher uptake of ground material(Iodine, ect) to produce more T4. The T4 levels will again rise to the upper limits of normal physiological levels within 2-3 months on HGH.
Hypothyroidism should be diagnosed on T3 levels and NOT on T4 levels. In clinical practice we tend to use the T4 levels as an indicator, as the T4 levels test is much cheaper.

I have 5 different medical studies that show hypothyroidism as a complication of HGH use, is extremely rare, and in most of these cases, there was an initial underlying cause/disease/malnutrition that lead to the subsequent hypothyroidism.

So, to sum up:
When on HGH, supplement with T3, and not T4. How much? If you have natural levels of 40ug production/24h, 2 - 3 tabs of T3 is fine. Just remember to split the doses evenly through out the day - taking 3 Tertroxins at once, will stress your heart, give you cramps, diarhoea, and you will sweat like a pig! Want severe insomnia? - take them before you retire to bed and you'll count sheep till day break! It is also a good thing to check yout Thyroid Function Test every 4-6 weeks, but dish out the extra $$$ and ask for T3 levels - tweak your oral does in accordance to this. The medical studies show, that the thyroid easily returns to normal function after use of short acting thyroid hormone(T3), but does take longer in doing so when using longer acting T4.
Many Pro's will use T3 for 10 consecutive months and then take a two month break.

Important to note that the Rehabilitation of your thyroid is JUST AS IMPORTANT than getting your gonadal function PCT going again. I think there is way too little emphysis on thyroid rehab. I will discuss this at a later stage when I go in-depth of PCT.

Knowledge is power!

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  • chemical g
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12 Oct 2007 14:38 #200 by chemical g
Replied by chemical g on topic Cycling T3 T4
Many Thanks Doc!!

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  • MxT
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12 Oct 2007 16:00 #202 by MxT
Replied by MxT on topic Cycling T3 T4
Agreed-dont see the point of using the actual hormone and a precurser hormone at the same time-the theory behind it MIGHT be that since ur introducing T4 the thyroid might still convert this to T3 and still stay active. BUT i personally dont see your thyriod doing jack after a 100mcg of T3. Did not know Eltroxin's half life was that long.......no wonder people stuggle to stop using it. taking the Doc's view T3 is 5 times more effective and after consideration propably safer. Good read guys. Keep it coming this is actaully informative and not the same rehassed questions that keep on poping up on most forums.

No Preservatives. 100% Juice

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  • Precision
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12 Oct 2007 17:25 #204 by Precision
Replied by Precision on topic Cycling T3 T4
Awesome read, thanks Doc

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  • Doctari
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12 Oct 2007 23:01 #206 by Doctari
Replied by Doctari on topic Cycling T3 T4
Just want to re-iterate something......

CHECK YOUR T3 LEVELS and titrate your dosage of Tertroxin in accordance to this. Try to stay in the upper half or as close as possible to the upper limit of your Lab's normal range values - especially if you are trying to pick up some size. Going beyond that level, will get you ripped. Just be careful to use too much T3, as T3 has the ugly ability to not discriminate between muscle and fat - so, if you are not highly \"anabolic\" and on very high prot/glutamine diet, be careful, as you will quickly burn up hard earned muscle if you OD on too much T3!

Knowledge is power!

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  • chemical g
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19 Oct 2007 03:11 #215 by chemical g
Replied by chemical g on topic Cycling T3 T4
Here is an article written by Anthony Roberts that I find extremely interesting regarding T3 and T4 use with GH (File Removed)

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  • Batman
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17 Feb 2008 19:16 #1124 by Batman
Replied by Batman on topic Cycling T3 T4
That is an Excellent Post doc!

Except for the drivel that dcg attached by Anthony Roberts... did anybody see what's wrong with that?

""would seem that the T3 which has been converted to T4 can not exert it’s protein sparing (anabolic effects),""
hmm it's news to me that T3 converts to T4

If it's not working,,, take double,,,

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