Quick-in Quick-out cycle

Conan, would it be possible for you to email me some of your cycles for the site? EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED

With that AQ/Winny cycle it's going to be difficult to find injection sites if run ED. 1.5 ml each diluted/mixed with .5 ml B12 = 4 ml total - too much for a single site. I did that but devided it into two shots 2ml each. Both Quads on day 1, Both Glutes Day 3.
Used a lot of Deep heat/voltaren/trans-act that first 2 weeks!

I didnt mean to offend you, I didnt say you are wrong, everyone else could be. This is the nature of this game we are in, no proper researh has been done. So one guy's opinion against the rest.

I would gladly post up some cycles: But there are so0 many options.....I wouldnt know where to begin. Dirkgreef wants a short cycle so i'll give him one:

Test Prop 100mg EOD week1-8 (Day 1,2,3 100mg ED followed by normal 100mgEOD)
Oral Tuirinabol 40mg ED week1-4
Anavar 75mg ED week5-8

HCG 500IU/week (2X250IUs M,T) - week 4-8

Week 9-13 Nolva 40,40,20,20

This will give excellent DRY lean gains with huge increase in vascularity, size and with a good diet you will see a big reduction in fat mass.

This cycle is a bit pricey (+-R3000) but if you want quality you are going to pay..

Too expensive for you..... how about this then


OPTIONAL :Front load Test aqua 50mg ED week 1
Test Cyp 500mg/week (250mg 2Xweek) week 1-10
Dbol 30mg ED week 1-4
Winny 50mg ED 7-10

HCG week 5-11: 500IU/week (250IU 2Xweek)
Week12-16 Nolva: 40,40,20,20

Similar results in my mind, but more liver damaging and a bit of bloat if you are prone, winny will help a bit with the bloat so you will be very pleased with the results after week 10. Keep Nolva on hand form day1 due to the longer ester and the dbol having increased risk for gyno.

Guys i have to just mention one thing, being around from bodybuilder.co.za's days Mxt has always been a great source of information & advice. He's helped me with diet & cycles in the past that worked like a bomb I did not question his ability or knowledge just invited discussion around the idea of shorter cycles. We all talk in general about them but we havnt had a thread exploring the different options, opinions, compounds and benefits attached to doing such a cycle. So lets all stay calm and do this for the benefit of ALL thats reading this tread. Just feel like i opened up a firefight here, not my intention

Dirk i think its an awesome thing you did. it means atleast we will get some reaction and maybe a few extra good cycles gets posted. evryone wins. i am here to learn and the exiting thing is in the last 2 months I have actually seen posts by some of the guys that are very worth the read and that will benefit everyone. This will grow to the premier source of training, diet supplemntation and anabolic information for SA guys. i cant wait for the day when the level of information on this site is of such quality that you cannot help but learn from it. And it will come. At least we know that if some 15 year old school kid reads the information on this site and decided against all good advice to use juice he would have an informed opninion at least and that is a good thing in all aspects. That is more than most of us had growing up in this game.

mxt-- Im sorry if i came across the wrong way, im just posting my opinion so that it can trigger discussion. I respect your opinion too. Im also here to learn and further my knowledge.

Think we have some great minds on this forum, and thats why im here, I want to learn and improve. Im planning on stepping on stage in 2010. Long time away, but I want to blow people away. So keep on discussing I want to learn!!

I have designed my next cycle, based on AL Rea's phase cycles. What I have done is to combine some of his work, some of A Robert's work and some of Llwellyn's work into one cycle. Dosages are not very high.. Three phases of 20 days each, inter-twined and overlapping. This includes the PCT. This is a very advanced cycle. It is designed to be run continuously as a bulking cycle. I will post it after I have run it myself the first time, including the results. It is based on AL Rea's principles, but not a copy of his work. I have changed quite a bit of his cycle content. The injectables are "built" around PGW's products.

Now, let me now go and open up the next can of worms...
You all are running too low doses of HCG in your PCT's. Ah, let's see what happens now......

Agreed, but Ill bite that bullet until I have reproduced. Just not gambling with my boys at this stage:P

I dont believe there is a need to run HCG in PCT if you run it during your cycle ie. if you keep your boys going during the cycle they do not need the HCG in PCT.

Agreed Doc?

Doc I think with most of us one of the biggest problems/things we neglect is blood work.We go around blindly correcting what we think has caused our side effects or problem! I think we all could benefit from more regular blood work!
BUT in our defense,to get a blood test done(all the specific tests we want)ends up costing an arm and a leg-first you have to go to the doctor then he has to send you off to the lab then when the results come back its back to the doctor, ends up costing a couple of grand.Doc any way round this???

Now that's a question i would like answered!

hell yea, been thinking about going and having a panel done myself, however, pt1 dont know what to ask for/how to approach the whole story & secondly the cost involved:blink:

Mike, I totally disagree. You cannot maintain normal HPTA function while on high doses of test injections and think using a bit Pregnyl(esp at the low doses you guys suggest like 300-500IU's per week) will keep the "nuts" normal. All these doses do, is to keep the testii "primed" to react quicker and better during onset of PCT. But if you are willing not to run HCG during your PCT, that's your choice. I can promise you this - eventually it will catch up to you and bite you in the arse with vengeance !

About the blood work. It is costly, but not necessary to evaluate the effecacy of your PCT. There is a much cheaper test. It's called the "wanking test". You give a sperm sample at the end of your PCT and if you have viable sperm with a adequate count (more than a million per one ml ejaculate), then your PCT was successful. And it does not cost much...

Mike, any chance of getting your e-mail ad?

Hey gifapple, how's liewe heksie doing? Just busting ur balls man ... Ask ur questions here dude, noboddy will think its a dumb question or request + ull have the benefit of many inputs on ur question ...

Ok, We'll see how much stupidy you guys can handle...... :

My question/concern as follows....

My 2nd cycle of dianbol will end in the following few days (used 2 per day)... I also used Depot (only one shot per week). I used the same end of last year and my gains were great. Over Dec. holiday my trainer and i took some time off and when we started again in Mid Jan i lost about 5kg's. Stupid yes = not PCT...

He actually started training with me now, seeing that my strength is relative good now... I stopped the depot about 10days ago and i really dont know if this is only in my head, but it seems my strenght is all ready tapering down... my problem is (LOL) I dont know what to do about my gyming... My trainer has no idea i use the stuff and he is obviously going to realise something is terribly wrong... will my strength get that bad?!

Look, i'm 80kgs now, and and getting so impressed with the results, not really bulking, but my bodyfat dropped now to 12%. so now i wanna gain, not to bodybuilder status, just really good = about 90Kgs (i'm 1,86m tall) i haven't seen real gains on my 2nd cycle (not like the end of last year), so i'm really confused....

WHAT TO DO...

This is alot of info, some really confusing, please sort me out!

What do i do when i'm post cycle to keep my strenght gained?

Hey Doc, that sorts out the swimmers, but what about all the other stuff blodwork can answer, cholesterol, liver values etc. Is there not a cheaper or another option to this or do we just have to "kak and betaal" for panels?

Another question: Is it wise to do blood work before and after every cycle to see what the damage is or can it be done say every quarter? What is the most economical and safest way to make sure you don't end up doing real permanent damage?

Im sure mos medical aids cover bloodwork when requested by a GP- mine did- just tell ur GP you would like Bloodwork done to check for Cholesterol, Test Levels, Thyroid, Sugar , and Liver values. Its pretty standard last time I checked. just be honest with your GP. He might have a bit of a shit fit but hel do the tests non the less and if he doesnt find another one. my 5 cents. I mean the first cycle I ever did was given to me by a doctor- wonder if that oke is still in business- jeez he was dodge

Well the medical aid does pay for it yes, but it depletes my MSA rapidly and my docs advice was blood work before and after a course, seems a little extreme and expensive as I do have 2 dependants on my MA as well.

If that's the best way then that's the best way I guess.

I would suggest your test levels to be checked after your PCT, but half way between courses. Chol maybe every 6 months, but atleast once a year. Thyroid function test, only ask for TSH level - that's a good screening test, as if this is normal, you don't need to do the more expensive T4/T3 levels. When you ask for a liver function test, only ask for the liver enzymes - not the whole panel. Doing the above will cut the expenses hugely!

Ok modified mxt's cycle slightly and here it is ... any suggestions?

Want to start ECA/Clen cycle from about wk9, wise or should i wait a bit?

Also have some proviron just not sure where to slot it in .. during cycle or during pct (File Removed)

I would just run the clen and not ECA, clen will keep you anabolic and solidify gains after PCT as well, use some ketotifen to keep the receptors up and no need to cycle, look at the post on that if you haven't already. Thought we discussed the longer esters and shorter cycles and they only kick in properly in week 4 to 5. I also personally prefer to frontload the equi, maybe double the dose in the first 2 weeks if you going to keep it there. D-Bol you can consider to run for another week at that dose, but may not be neccessary due to the prop so just see how it goes, maybe T-Bol will be a better bet, less water. HCG looks a bit high in week 5 and 6, since you using during, maybe 1000iu's will be a better dosage, but Conan or Doc would be best to advise around that. kessar, try for 21 days minimum. Proviron you can run last week of cycle and first week of PCT or longer, but keep an eye on your water if you retain and judge by that. Start at 50mg p/d and not more that 100mg p/d. Clen i would start week 7 or so and runn from then. Other PCT components would be tribulus for the sperm count and volume. Look at milk thistle for the liver, flax seed oil and ZMA. M-Vit for the immune system as well as 1000 mg Vit-C p/d. just some thoughts and a good cycle with some nice lean geans if your diet is in line and geared towards that. Nice to see built cycles modified to personal preference

Hey Netro, thought about cycling the Clen & ECA 2wks on 2wks off, thus eliminating the problem of beta2 receptor downgrade and also the need for ketotifien

That's fine if those are the compounds you looking to use.

I dont like the HCG on th cycle. Either run it at the end and hope for recovery or run the low dose during. Not a combination imo. Id prob run 500iu eood or 250 Eod. Remmebr this is a shortish cycle. prob good for 4-6kgs BUT rmemebr you are running over a gram of gear a week if you are comfortable with it. if you want to extend it run the Dbol/Tbol/Anapolyn upfront. Push it out to 10 weeks and you can drop the Prop. Recovery will jst be more prolonged and losses more profound. Im not a fan of Proviron as/in/during PCT since it supressed HPTA function no matter which way you cut it but it does well in the last weeks as on on cycle estrogen controler. Frontloading EQ being a long acting ester will lead to receptor saturation- i wouldtn do it with Deca either. Use ur fast acting orals as your frontload- thats the whole reason for using them