Please help me sort out the confusion!

Hi guys

After reading through the cycle discussion section, trying desperately to find the best cycle, I came across a few ideas.

Cycle 1:

W1-5 Test E 600mg/week or Sust 500mg/week
W1-4 D/bol 50mg/week or T/bol 60-80mg/week or Anavar40-60mg/week
W6-8 Test Prop 150mg eod
W6-8 Proviron 75mg/week

W5-7 HCG 500iu 2x/week
W8-9 HCG 500iu 3x/week
W9 Clomid 100mg/day
W10 Clomid 50mg/day

or Cycle 2:

W1-8 Test Prop 150mg eod
W1-6 Anavar 40-60mg/week or T/Bol 60-80mg/week or D/Bol 50mg/week
W6-8 Proviron 75mg/day

PCT same as above


This would be my third cycle as I have done test cyp, test e and equi before. My main goal is to try and do 3 10week cycles a year and gain at least 5-6kg lean muscle per cycle. I'm 23, been training for 3 years, need to drop a bit BF (but got that sorted with a keto diet from DJ), but will go on cycle together with a keto style bulking diet from DJ as soon as I reach 12%BF (about 84kg)

Which of the above cycles would you guys recommend and where must changes be made? Must I add some Deca, Winstrol or Letro?

if u are doing 3 cycles in a year then skip the first cycle idea,go for the second cycle and use tbol not dbol..or u could do a cycle of Nandro prop at 150mg eod,masteron 150mg eod,test prop 100mg eod for 8 weeks then for the 2weeks that u have to wait for the masteron enanthate ester to leave use proviron with the test prop..

Something like...

W 1-8 Test Prop 100mg eod
W 1-8 Nandro-Prop 150mg eod
W 1-6 Masteron 150mg eod
W 7-8 Proviron 75mg per day

Any orals up front?
Can I expect to gain at least 6kg of lean maintainable muscle?

Thanx for the insight

I would keep the test same or higher than the nandro.

I would leave the proviron and go with masteron all the way through-masteron prop-as its basically the same as proviron. I personally prefer winny to masteron. Winny is harsh on the joints, but with nandro prop it will be fine.
But some guys get good results from masteron, I just found for me winny was far superior.
I also shed a lot of hair on masteron, but not so much on winny.

yohimbe i love that nandro prop masteron combo and it conestly produces a lean hard dry vascular look that most guys want from a cycle,i think masteron is better as its not liver toxic and i think it drys and hardens u up more than winstrol(personally) without the joint issues... u can use tbol in this cycle...u can increase the test if u like with the NPP but the masteron will keep the libido up and u wont suffer to much from the 19nor shut down...

Can I add winny and at what dosage? With regards to what Yohimbe said...

And how much lean mass can I expect to gain? Is the pct up to standard?

djeasye wrote:

yohimbe i love that nandro prop masteron combo and it conestly produces a lean hard dry vascular look that most guys want from a cycle,i think masteron is better as its not liver toxic and i think it drys and hardens u up more than winstrol(personally) without the joint issues... u can use tbol in this cycle...u can increase the test if u like with the NPP but the masteron will keep the libido up and u wont suffer to much from the 19nor shut down...

Just doesn't work for me for some reason-makes me horny as hell, but in terms of hardness and gains winny beats masteron hands down for me. But winny is harsh on joints, liver toxic and harsh on your lipid profile, so if masteron does the job as well as winny or better, go with the masteron, its much easier on the body than winny.
Just one of those things-my other buddy is the opposite, winny doesn't do much for him but masteron hardens him up and he gets nice gains from it.

I won't run winny without NPP though, did it once and had to drop it within 2 weeks my joints were so sore.

The winny would be 50mg per day (oral).

I prefer nolva for pct over clomid, but clomid does the job. Just some find that clomid can bring on gyno symptoms with it being a mild estrogen.

Gain to be expected from this cycle? Thanx Yohimbe, will definitly give it a try!

One more thing, can I use the same cycle 3 times a year?

How many cycles have you done? This makes a big difference, I gained 14kg on my first cycle of test prop at 500mg/week and tbol 40mg/day, but after that the gains become far more difficult. My last cycle I only gained half of that, and that was on 800mg/test prop/week, 50mg dbol/day and frontload EQ at 1,600mg/week for three weeks for a total of 6 weeks.

You can do the cycle three times per year-best protocol is time off=time on + PCT.
I also think it's good to rotate compounds and not stick to exactly the same cycle over and over-keep your body guessing. Your body is very good at adapting.

If you do NPP this time, try some EQ next time and some dbol maybe with a different test

Like u said its all person specific,i won't be using winstrol or anavar in a hurry again as my shoulder and elbow where both stuffed after a while,maybe in the last 4weeks of this cycle maybe but i doubt it,how ever i'm loving the masteron that i'm using its machine,i'm going to do something different for the next 5weeks,going to do 1ml super test,1/2ml equi,1/2ml masteron.1/2ml npp eod for 5-6weeks and then switch again to probably tren acetate.test prop and carry on with the equi for another 5weeks then drop the equi and carry on with the prop and tren and maybe winstrol and letro for the last 3weeks of tif cycle...will have to just see

Oh if u are using masteron don't use winstrol at the same time,too much dht.rather use one or the other,if u use masteron use tbol and u will be very happy with the result.

@ Yohimbe
I've done 2 before, test cyp that wasn't a huge success especially if you dont do your homework and leave it for the next guy to plan your cycle (not very bright, I know) and the second one was test e 300mg/week together with equi 350mg/week for 10weeks in which I gained about 7kgs and kept about 5kgs due to a bad diet and pct.
Wow 14kgs is a lot, how long was that cycle? Can I expect something similar from my cycle? If I use equi the cycle after this one, then I must probrably front load with 1000mg per week, right? Thanx for the info!

@ Dj
Sounds great :woohoo: thanx for the cycle!
Your cycle sounds like a monster, good luck with that!

One more thing Dj, how must I split the TBol? Is 80mg per day enough?

djeasye wrote:

Oh if u are using masteron don't use winstrol at the same time,too much dht.rather use one or the other,if u use masteron use tbol and u will be very happy with the result.

Bump this-that was what I did on the cycle when I did the winny for two weeks and the gf was ready to kick me out the house I was so damn horny-never thought that that would become a problem, but it did, could barely function day to day. The dog next door started looking promising

I don't think you'll put on 14kgs since this is your third cycle. But don't underestimate diet. My fourth cycle I gained about 10kgs after two rather lame gain cycles, purely because i jumped the protein to 450g per day. I gained some fat, but I grew like a weed.

I think loading at 1,000mg EQ per week is a good idea for the first two weeks on a longer EQ cycle-14 weeks or so to get the blood levels up. I loaded at 1,600mg but only ran the EQ for three weeks as it was a 6 weeker and was trying to load and then ride the ester. Not popular but I did get some gains out of it and was quite happy with the idea. Next time I'll load heavier, but was a bit worried about blood pressure at the time, but didn't get any increase whatsoever.

I used tbol on second cycle at 60mg per day and was happy at this dose, got some nice lean gains out of it.

djeasye wrote:

Like u said its all person specific,i won't be using winstrol or anavar in a hurry again as my shoulder and elbow where both stuffed after a while,maybe in the last 4weeks of this cycle maybe but i doubt it,how ever i'm loving the masteron that i'm using its machine,i'm going to do something different for the next 5weeks,going to do 1ml super test,1/2ml equi,1/2ml masteron.1/2ml npp eod for 5-6weeks and then switch again to probably tren acetate.test prop and carry on with the equi for another 5weeks then drop the equi and carry on with the prop and tren and maybe winstrol and letro for the last 3weeks of tif cycle...will have to just see

That sounds like a hell of a cycle-how long is it going to be total?

22weeks,only on for another 16 lol....

djeasye wrote:

22weeks,only on for another 16 lol....

Only
Whats your pct going to be? Hows your recovery on a cycle of this length?

dunno will be my first cycle with long esters,i will hit hcg at 500ius 3 times a week when i get to week 10 and will be using hcg the whole period on the tren,will run clomid at 100mg a day for 10days 4 days after my last shot with hcg and kessar post clomid usage... recovery should be fine i recon....

djeasye wrote:

dunno will be my first cycle with long esters,i will hit hcg at 500ius 3 times a week when i get to week 10 and will be using hcg the whole period on the tren,will run clomid at 100mg a day for 10days 4 days after my last shot with hcg and kessar post clomid usage... recovery should be fine i recon....

I'll be interested to hear how the cycle goes and the post recovery, thats a long cycle.

Do you find that gains start slowing down on the same compounds and thats the reason for swopping out for different AAS during the cycle?